The Pakistani grooming scandal is not our business or issue

[Angelina]

Me and my 3 brothers have been saving for a while, our family has 20+ acres of land in the north. We intend to invest and build specifically on our family’s land. 2 out of the 4 of us want to go back and build there and all 4 want to be part of the process.
InshAllah things work out for us and for the country as a whole.

Make sure you’re there for every step of the way. I haven’t heard a lot of crazy stories in places up North especially if it’s a smaller city. When people are mostly kin, not a big city ect then yes, it is high trust compared to many other places, I don’t deny this.

 

[Angelina]

I wouldn't say it was applied in a racist deragatory way, because the connotation was originally link to the Ethiopian domestic servants that came before them, as the name applies and old manuscripts show.

Whereas jariir and or this madoweyne is one 100% racist, because it racializes them and reduces them to a mere descriptor of physical appearance. It actually comes from those same communities borrowing from hamitic race science in many ways that influenced the distinction between Tutsis and Hutu, which was original just occupational seperative names nothing to do with physical appearance. In a similar way it is meant to imply they are more African and other Somalis are less African.

Thats why i say that they kinda did themselves dirty when they applied that raciaized term to themselves, it was bound to be used as a slur. What do they expect? especially on the social web where anything goes and people fling obscenities at eachother.

You do know Somalis like to describe people by appearance. indo yar, Timo jelec? Even Arabs are called Dhegocas Are all of that racist and are you now going to say all of those words new words as well?

You have a Westernised outlook and are now applying it to Somalis of old. That is my point. It’s like you haven’t been around Somalis and are clueless of your people and need screenshots of studies.

They didn’t do themselves dirty, they simply happen to live in a society that literally describes every other single group in this way. Timo jelec, Indo yar, Dhegocas, Cadaan. Every group is referred to by their appearance and only a western washed Somali wouldn’t know this. You’d also know that Somalis love nicknames to do with appearances. If you have white hair, they’ll call you Timo Cadde. If you unfortunately lose a finger, they’ll call you faroole, even worse if you don’t have a hand, they’ll call you Gaacanlee, so it’s of no surprise that Somalis called Somali Bantus Jariir. It isn’t derogatory, it is the Somalis love of descriptive nicknames, you’d know this if you mixed with your people more and understood their culture outside of a Western lens.

 

[zeila2wajir]

Pakistani's do a good job at portraying issues within their community as a wider "Muslim" issue. When they push back against Grooming gang conversations, they always pose it as a matter of "islamaphobia" when Islam wasn't even mentioned.

Other muslim groups would be better served distancing themselves from this topic and also making sure this isn't allowed to become a "Muslim" issue. It's a specific community with disgusting views about white girls.

When the Somali idiot killed MP David Ames did you see Pakistanis defending you under the guise of religion

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[Idilinaa]

You know Somalis like to describe people by appearance. indo yar, Timo jelec? Are all of that racist and are you now going to say all of those words new words as well?

You have a Westernised outlook and are now applying it to Somalis of old. That is my point.

I disagree. We don't describe groups that way traditionally speaking. Areas i lived in had Indians ,Pakistani and Tamils never once heard Somalis refer to them as ''Timo jileec'' until i saw Somalis on social apps call them this later on in life. Not even odayaals. Hindi was the term for South Asians collectively or we would just refer to them by where they were from nationality wise.

But yeah it's comes from Somalis remixing the language recently to make it seem more edgy coming up with these names. And yes calling an Asian Indho yar and what not is racist.

 

[Angelina]

I disagree. We don't describe groups that way traditionally speaking. Areas i lived in had Indians ,Pakistani and Tamils never once heard Somalis refer to them as ''Timo jileec'' until i saw Somalis on social apps call them this later on in life. Hindi was the term for South Asians collectively or we would just refer to them by where were from nationality wise.

But yeah it's comes from Somalis remixing the language recently to make it seem more funny and edgy coming up with these names.

Wallahi Indilinaa, i think you’re trolling me now. These terms are not social media terms and are terms Somalis have been using for a long time. Create a poll and ask people what the elders in their families call Asians and Chinese people. I didn’t even know the formal term Somalis call East Asians until I become older since every elder I’ve come across and being back home referred to them and ‘Indo yar’.

Many groups are referred to by their appearance and only a western washed Somali wouldn’t know this.

You’d also know that Somalis love nicknames to do with appearances. If you have white hair, they’ll call you Timo Cadde. If you unfortunately lose a finger, they’ll call you faroole, even worse if you don’t have a hand, they’ll call you Gaacanlee, so it’s of no surprise that Somalis called Somali Bantus Jariir. It isn’t derogatory, it is the Somalis love of descriptive nicknames, you’d know this if you mixed with your people more and understood their culture outside of a Western lens. This is derived from Somalis love of nicknames and isn’t a social media thing. Most of our parents have some sort of nickname with many based on their appearance that was given to them since their childhood well before the invention of social media.

This isn’t recent, you simply do not have a good grasp of the Somali culture or language.

 

[Angelina]

@Shimbiris since you’re the resident historian here.

Are words like Timo jelec and Indoyar recent social media inventions and I’d have thought those words tied into Somalis love of nicknames rather than racism ect?

I heard those descriptions my whole life well before the invention of social media hence I’m baffled.

If I’m wrong, I’ll gladly sit this one out.

 

[Idilinaa]

Wallahi Indilinaa, i think you’re trolling me now. These terms are not social media terms and are terms Somalis have been using for centuries.

Every group is referred to by their appearance and only a western washed Somali wouldn’t know this. You’d also know that Somalis love nicknames to do with appearances. If you have white hair, they’ll call you Timo Cadde. If you unfortunately lose a finger, they’ll call you faroole, even worse if you don’t have a hand, they’ll call you Gaacanlee, so it’s of no surprise that Somalis called Somali Bantus Jariir. It isn’t derogatory, it is the Somalis love of descriptive nicknames, you’d know this if you mixed with your people more and understood their culture outside of a Western lens.

This isn’t recent, you simply do not have a good grasp of the Somali culture or language.

Really? Alright what clan names in Somalia is based on physical appearance? Most names has nothing to do with appearance.

Similarly with the most common Somali cultural names.

 

[Angelina]

Really? Alright what clan names in Somalia is based on physical appearance? Most names has nothing to do with appearance.

Similarly with the most common Somali cultural names.

My subclan is literally named because of a physical descriptor of my great great ancestor. I don’t want to give it away since it’s personal and I’ll be identified.

Wallahi funnily I completely forgot that point and now by reminding me of qabil you’ve cemented that you’re completely wrong in this matter

How it slipped my mind Allah knows.

Idilinaa enough with the studies, go and mingle with your people and speak to your elders and even learn your abtiris in detail, you’ll find one or two ancestor who had a nickname that stuck.

 

[Ghengis Kaarhis]

When I gained weight my hoyo used to call my Calooley until I lost the weight

 

[Idilinaa]

My subclan is literally named because of a physical descriptor of my great great ancestor. I don’t want to give it away since it’s personal and I’ll be identified.

Wallahi funnily I completely forgot that point and now by reminding me of qabil you’ve cemented that you’re completely wrong in this matter

How it slipped my mind Allah knows.

Ain't that convenient.

Most aren't aside from names like Garwayne but this more linked to cultural appreciation for beards.

 

[Angelina]

It's that convenient.

Most aren't aside from names like Garwayne but this more linked to cultural appreciation for beards.

I said Wallahi and have no reason to lie, you literally reminded me when you mentioned Qabils and on top of that this is a common phenomenon. I never said most are, but you don’t seem to understand that Somalis as a culture like to engage in descriptive language and nicknames. This is a given knowledge for people that mix with their people. That’s why at point I thought you were trolling me. You say certain things that reveal to me you’re not very clued up on Somali dhaqan and you engage in extreme idealism and will wash out anything that isn’t to your sensibilities to the point of falsehood like in this situation right now.

 

[Shimbiris]

@Shimbiris since you’re the resident historian here.

Are words like Timo jelec and Indoyar recent social media inventions and I’d have thought those words tied into Somalis love of nicknames rather than racism ect?

I heard those descriptions my whole life well before the invention of social media hence I’m baffled.

If I’m wrong, I’ll gladly sit this one out.

Not that I know of. My parents and grandparents were using these terms when I was little in a mostly pre Internet world.

I align with you in that they fit a general pattern among Somalis to nickname foreign peoples by their most distinguishing trait compared to Somalis and other global populations. With East Asians it's the epicanthic fold hence "Indhoyar"; with more "pure" SSAs it's their uniformly afro-textured hair hence the "J-word"; with Desis it's their more commonly straight to wavy hair hence "Timo-Jileec" .

It's basically Somalis honing in on the trait they feel distinguishes these groups the most from themselves and, to some extent, other groups as well. Usually anyway. There are weird ones like "Dhagscase" and when I asked older relatives what it was about they'd try to defend it like "Look at their ears, they're red!"

 

[Angelina]

Not that I know of. My parents and grandparents were using these terms when I was little in a mostly pre Internet world.

I align with you in that they fit a general pattern among Somalis to nickname foreign peoples by their most distinguishing trait compared to Somalis and other world populations. With East Asians it's the epicanthic fold hence "Indhoyar"; with more "pure" SSAs it's their uniformly afro-textured hair hence the "J-word"; with Desis it's their more commonly straight to wavy hair hence "Timo-Jileec" .

It's basically Somalis honing in on the trait they feel distinguishes these groups the most from themselves and, to some extent, other groups as well. Usually anyway. There are weird ones like "Dhagscase" and when I asked older relatives what it was about they'd try to defend it like "Look at their ears, they're red!"

I know, my ayeeyo only ever used the word indo yar. It’s only when I was older did I hear the more refined use of the word Shiiinais for East Asians.

Please our resident optimist @Idilinaa thinks I’m making it up and now I’m shocked at her for not knowing this. Wallahi at one point I thought she was trolling me. I can’t even put it down as a North vs South thing since the My Northern side are worse, they legit call a relative of mine Faroole for losing fingers during the late 80s early 90s war in Somalia.

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[Idilinaa]

Not that I know of. My parents and grandparents were using these terms when I was little in a mostly pre Internet world.

I align with you in that they fit a general pattern among Somalis to nickname foreign peoples by their most distinguishing trait compared to Somalis and other global populations. With East Asians it's the epicanthic fold hence "Indhoyar"; with more "pure" SSAs it's their uniformly afro-textured hair hence the "J-word"; with Desis it's their more commonly straight to wavy hair hence "Timo-Jileec" .

It's basically Somalis honing in on the trait they feel distinguishes these groups the most from themselves and, to some extent, other groups as well. Usually anyway. There are weird ones like "Dhagscase" and when I asked older relatives what it was about they'd try to defend it like "Look at their ears, they're red!"

Timo jileec and j-word and indo yar was not names for other groups. It was what Somalis described what they saw in their own variations. For example my own sibling was refer to as indho yar because of the eye shape. It's similar to how we nickname individuals caade iyo madoobe but these are never their formal names might i add.

And you know from reading historical writings, Somalis didn't have name for Asians nor did they call south Asians timo jileec, they simply referred to them as Hindis.

 

[Angelina]

Timo jileec and j-word and indo yar was not names for other groups.

It became a name though well before social media, that is our point.

It was Somalis described what they saw in their own varations. For example my own sibling was refer to as indho yar because of the eye shape. It's similar to how we nickname individuals cadee iyo madoobe but these are never their formal names might i add.

And you know from reading historical writings, Somalis didn't have word for Asians nor did they call south Asians timo jileec, they simply referred to them as hindus

Please explain why both of our grandparents called them Timo jelec, called East Asians indoyar and the list continues and this was a common phenomenon for most Somalis and regardless of tribe and region. We weren’t even talking about formality, just what the locals called them and saw them as.

@Shimbiris and I am guessing are from different regions and tribes yet our experiences are uniform in this matter and you’ll find that most of the form will agree with us. Yet you tried to say this was a social media phenomenon when I was merely pointing out this was in use before even the invention of the computer.

The thing is, your optimism has reached the point that you’ll deny basic facts about Somali culture that doesn’t align with your wishful thinking, that’s an issue and why it’s hard for me to engage with you.

 

[Shimbiris]

I know, my ayeeyo only ever used the word indo yar. It’s only when I was older did I hear the more refined use of the word Shiiinais for East Asians.

Please our resident optimist @Idilinaa thinks I’m making it up and now I’m shocked at her for not knowing this. Wallahi at one point I thought she was trolling me. I can’t even put it down as a North vs South thing since the My Northern side are worse, they legit call a relative of mine Faroole for losing fingers during the late 80s early 90s war in Somalia.

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Somalis love nicknames. My father used to have a driver, let's call him Ali, who was a bit... rotund, let's say. Everyone called him "Ali Buur" including the man's own fam.

They used to call my mother's blind nephew who was actually a prominent minister under Siyaad "Indhole" because he was blind. If you're missing a leg you can be sure your creative nickname will be "Legless". Somalis love their ruthless humor.





But these are just egregious cases that aren't necessarily the norm. A lot of nicknames are complimentary as well or just harmlessly descriptive like my awoowe always being known as "Xaji" for having gone to Hajj, being old and generally admired in the community. I even have ancestors my mother and relatives would tell me about down my Abtirsi who all had nicknames of some kind or other.

 

[Shimbiris]

Timo jileec and j-word and indo yar was not names for other groups. It was what Somalis described what they saw in their own variations. For example my own sibling was refer to as indho yar because of the eye shape. It's similar to how we nickname individuals caade iyo madoobe but these are never their formal names might i add.

And you know from reading historical writings, Somalis didn't have name for Asians nor did they call south Asians timo jileec, they simply referred to them as Hindis.

These are colloquial terms, yes. You won't find them in historical texts. But I think you're reaching a bit, walaal, if you're trying to argue Somalis didn't historically, on the street, use them to refer to foreign groups. You can interview dozens of ayeeyos and awoowes across Somalia who'd show you otherwise.

 

[Angelina]

Somalis love nicknames. My father used to have a driver, let's call him Ali, who was a bit... rotund, let's say. Everyone called him "Ali Buur" including the man's own fam.

They used to call my mother's blind nephew who was actually a prominent minister under Siyaad "Indhole" because he was blind. If you're missing a leg you can be sure your creative nickname will be "Legless". Somalis love their ruthless humor.





But these are just egregious cases that aren't necessarily the norm. A lot of nicknames are complimentary as well or just harmlessly descriptive like my awoowe always being known as "Xaji" for having gone to Hajj, being old and generally admired in the community. I even have ancestors my mother and relatives would tell me about down my Abtirsi who all had nicknames of some kind or other.

Don’t get me started on sarcastic nicknames. Darkest aunt I know is called caaday lol.

 

[Shimbiris]

Don’t get me started on sarcastic nicknames. Darkest aunt I know is called caaday lol.

I've seen those. But they had the decency to try to save face to me when I asked by saying "He was light skinned when he was little and it just stuck."

 

[Idilinaa]

Please explain why both of our grandparents called them Timo jelec, called East Asians indoyar and the list continues and this was a common phenomenon for most Somalis and regardless of tribe and region.

@Shimbiris and I am guessing are from different regions and tribes yet our experiences are uniform in this matter and you’ll find that most of the form will agree with us.

The thing is, your optimism has reached the point that you’ll deny basic facts about Somali culture that doesn’t align with your wishful thinking, that’s an issue and why it’s hard for me to engage with you.

I can only explain from my own experiences, travels, relatives and what i know from historical documentation.

Somalis love nicknames. My father used to have a driver, let's call him Ali, who was a bit... rotund, let's say. Everyone called him "Ali Buur" including the man's own fam.

They used to call my mother's blind nephew who was actually a prominent minister under Siyaad "Indhole" because he was blind. If you're missing a leg you can be sure your creative nickname will be "Legless".

But these are just egregious cases that aren't necessarily the norm. A lot of nicknames are complimentary as well or just harmlessly descriptive like my awoowe always being known as "Xaji" for having gone to Hajj, being old and generally admired in the community. I even have ancestors my mother and relatives would tell me about down my Abtirsi who all had nicknames of some kind or other.

I am not specifically talking about off handed name calling or informal nicknames.

I am talking about like real names and terms for groups.

Like if you pull up a book or recording of Somalis from let say century or half a century ago did we call South Asians Timo Jileec? or were they calling them ''Hindi''? Where they calling Arabs dhegecas , where they just calling them ''Carab'' or other regional names?