The Reality Of What They Call The Ottoman Khilāfah [Ottoman Empire]

[cooli3o]

but how do you ask a dead person??? the person who goes to the grave, makes dua to the dead person.... this person is making dua. to the dead person.

does he make dua or does he ask him to make dua for him?

 

[cooli3o]

this whole shubuhat of people trying to say "no, no it isn't shirk- we're just asking the dead to make dua for us".... this is just like the mushrikeen that the Quran talks about

Unquestionably, for Allah is the pure religion. And those who take protectors besides Him [say], “We only worship them that they may bring us nearer to Allah in position.” Indeed, Allah will judge between them concerning that over which they differ. Indeed, Allah does not guide he who is a liar and [confirmed] disbeliever.

-Surah Zumar 39:3

no because the quraysh worshipped them and the peole nowadays do not worship them they just ask them to make dua for them

 

[cooli3o]

sure, post on here and you can ask me. but can you do some weird ritual where you invoke me and supplicate me to make dua for you... of course not.

this idea that trying to invoke some dead person like the Shia going "ya Ali"... that this is just like if you ask me for a glass of water.... these are very blatantly not the same thing. people can try to make it out to be this big complicated thing but it isn't.

Making Du’a (supplication) to the dead – Imam Ibn Baz​

by AbdurRahman.orgFebruary 1, 2020

31-Ruling on making Du’a’ the dead
Q: What is the ruling on those who make Du’a’ (supplication) to the dead?
Ans by Imam Ibn Baz (rahimahullaah):
Those who make Du`a’ (supplication) to the dead are Mushriks (those who associate others with Allah in His Divinity or worship). If they make Du’a’ to the dead, idols, trees, stones, angels or jinn, they will be regarded as Kafirs (disbelievers) as making Du’a’ to all these leads to one thing; namely, Kufr (disbelief that takes the Muslim out of Islam),
One thing that can be excluded from this ruling which is seeking help from his fellow Muslim brother or non-Muslim like buying a commodity from a non-Muslim, asking him to build a shop or mend a car while the person while he is alive. This case is considered to be exceptional and is not a kind of Shirk. It is similar to what Allah (Exalted be He) mentions in the story of Musa (Moses): (The man of his own) party asked him for help against his foe)
If one asks his fellow Muslim brother or the non-Muslim, who is present, to do something for him like building a house, mending the car, or plowing the land in return for something, or they agree upon doing something that is legally permitted, there will be nothing wrong as all these things are normal and can be done by human beings who are alive and present.
But what is Munkar (that which is unacceptable or disapproved of by Islamic law and Muslims of sound intellect) is making Du’a’ to those who are not present and cannot hear him, the dead or a living person whom he thinks to be supernatural and has a mysterious power. This understanding leads him to think that if he makes Du’a’ to this person for forgiveness and admittance to paradise, he will be able to do this because of something secret about this person. This is Munkar even if the person who is invoked besides Allah (Exalted be He) is living.
There are many Sufis who worship their Shaykhs and their senior and prestigious persons who are dead. They ask them for help and make Du’a’ to them to cure the sick. All these things are considered to be major Shirk (associating others with Allah in His Divinity or worship) even if the person whom they make Du`a’ to is alive because they ask him something beyond his abilities. This behavior differs from asking a person to lend you something, build a house for you, cultivate some land, mend a car, bring your belongings from the car, and so on. All these things are normal and contain there is nothing wrong in them.

https://abdurrahman.org/2020/02/01/making-duasupplication-to-the-dead/

the asl of the question is wrong since they do not make dua to the dead they ask them to make dua for them

 

[Omar del Sur]

the problem is when you are "salafi"(this doesn't make sense since the salaf would hold the view that tasawwuf through the Prophet is allowed) you are so brainwashed and do taqleed of your scholars (ironic) that you cannot even engage in an intellectual discussion without lying on the other person and misinterpreting all their arguments.

Salafis are brainwashed, huh

he follows muhammed ibn abdul wahhab and so do all his ulama do the same, therefore his opinion to me is bias and wrong.

so tell me- did you read Kitab at Tawheed? what specifically in the book do you object to? specifically. I mean as in specific where there's a chapter and page number and you can show me which exact page you're talking about.

 

[Odious Delirium]

are you hanafi?

Shaffi

 

[cooli3o]

Salafis are brainwashed, huh



so tell me- did you read Kitab at Tawheed? what specifically in the book do you object to? specifically. I mean as in specific where there's a chapter and page number and you can show me which exact page you're talking about.

if you were actually salafi you wouldn't be brainwashed, but modern day title of "salafi" has been ruined


also muhammed ibn abdul wahhabs only book was not kitaab atawheed.
Muhammed ibn abdul wahhab declared that people were worshipping graves during his time and they were kufffar, and murdered them, he also used the Burda poem and said there is shirk in their to support his views, he also believed tawassul to graves is shirk, and he claimed istighaatha is also shirk.

alsocan you please respond to me previous replies

 

[Hamzza]

The Ottomans added many lands to Dar Al-Islam, including Constantinople

Istanbul and all of Turkey cannot be described as Dar al Islam

 

[Hamzza]

We need the Ottoman Empire back

 

[Omar del Sur]

if you were actually salafi you wouldn't be brainwashed, but modern day title of "salafi" has been ruined


also muhammed ibn abdul wahhabs only book was not kitaab atawheed.
Muhammed ibn abdul wahhab declared that people were worshipping graves during his time and they were kufffar, and murdered them, he also used the Burda poem and said there is shirk in their to support his views, he also believed tawassul to graves is shirk, and he claimed istighaatha is also shirk.

so u didn't read kitab at tawheed, I'm guessing.

 

[Omar del Sur]

@cooli3o so which of the Sheikh's books have u read? none of them?

 

[cooli3o]

so u didn't read kitab at tawheed, I'm guessing.

I have studied it under a teacher

 

[Omar del Sur]

I have studied it under a teacher

so what part of the book do you object to? or you do take the correct position that pretty much everything in that book is correct?

 

[cooli3o]

so what part of the book do you object to? or you do take the correct position that pretty much everything in that book is correct?

when did I say I object to the book? thats got nothing to do with my previous posts, which I would like you to respond to

 

[Omar del Sur]

when did I say I object to the book? thats got nothing to do with my previous posts, which I would like you to respond to

it has a lot to do with the subject, Salafis generally aren't all that interested in the history of that time and place, most Salafis are not really historians, Salafis do things like study kitab at tawheed. historical biography of scholars is interesting but it's kind of a side topic.

honestly this is just more demonstration of how weak the anti-"Wahhabis" position is. you repeat some rumors about the history (that could be made up by shia, sufis, etc.) and you basically admit you can't refute his actual books- or can you refute any of his books? what Salafis study and are primarily concerned with is his books, not his life story.

 

[cooli3o]

it has a lot to do with the subject, Salafis generally aren't all that interested in the history of that time and place, most Salafis are not really historians, Salafis do things like study kitab at tawheed. historical biography of scholars is interesting but it's kind of a side topic.

honestly this is just more demonstration of how weak the anti-"Wahhabis" position is. you repeat some rumors about the history (that could be made up by shia, sufis, etc.) and you basically admit you can't refute his actual books- or can you refute any of his books? what Salafis study and are primarily concerned with is his books, not his life story.

Do you believe istaghaatha is shirk, because muhammed ibn abdul wahhab did

 

[Garaad Awal]

The Madkhalis only critique regimes and dynasties that the Aal Saud family & Saudi ethnic-nationalists are against.

Madkhalism in the West tends to attract the lowest filth of Muslim society and the reverts to Salafism/Madkhalism were generally low iq bums. @Omar del Sur I’m pretty sure was a Mexican bum that had no purpose in life.

Being an ideological soldier of Aal Saud gives him a sense of purpose

 

[AbwaanCali]

All khilafa other than Rashidun had a dark side. They were more positive than negative. It's better than today. We don't need to pretend like they're saints, but don't forget how the ummah was more powerful under them.

 

[AbwaanCali]

Isn't tawassul asking Allah for someone's intercession? Like saying "Ya Allah grant me the intercession of your Rasul". @Omar del Sur

 

[Xoxoxo]

I personally consider both sides to be full off balonies, except one of them wouldn’t threaten you with death.

salafis to me are people who’ll threaten you if you don’t agree with them, and considering how they have ruined a lot off things in our lifetimes showcases how they are as crazy as those sufis.

 

[Omar del Sur]