The Somalis and the Camel: a Historic Economic Development Toward Islamic Period

[Midas]

I have no idea about that topic, to be honest.

But pastoralist ideology was a real thing in many different ways since the time of Nubia, in origin Egypt (in part) in quite surprising ways.

You've just reminded me that in sade mire book she talks about this cushitc idea of sacred kinship and it seems like pastoral ideaology is another piece of this cultural complex. There is also the fact that it seems everywhere we find megaliths in this region it's tied to cushites.
So we got
1) pastoral ideaology
2) sacred kinship
3) megaliths
I can't wait till there is enough archeological work that ties all these things to together.

 

[The alchemist]

You've just reminded me that in sade mire book she talks about this cushitc idea of sacred kinship and it seems like pastoral ideaology is another piece of this cultural complex. There is also the fact that it seems everywhere we find megaliths in this region it's tied to cushites.
So we got
1) pastoral ideaology
2) sacred kinship
3) megaliths
I can't wait till there is enough archeological work that ties all these things to together.

All of that is already tied together albeit perhaps a bit understudied among pastoral neolithics and ancient Nubians. I do appreciate a lot that Sada Mire has contributed, though I might disagree on certain aspects of her interpretation or emphasis, which is not about this topic, to be honest. I don't want to derail this thread by going into that nuance you see. But you are correct and it is more studied than you realize but it spans a lot of research that is independently very narrow in focus and might not be all-expanding throughout and terminology and focus on the literature varies greatly. A lot of the depth and shades might not be there to explain the broad phenomenons or political and economic tendencies based on those shared aspects.

 

[The alchemist]

Here is an interesting find, camel/livestock branding practices of Somalis:

I can't find the source anymore since it was a Twitter post, not a study (the art, that is).

Not only is there branding for the livestock of Somalis, they also branded territory with the same brands:

This has historically been interpreted as lineage/clan/tribe signature that goes back all the way to Nile Valley among the pastoralists.

Reading about Blemmyan history through review and synthesis of documentation of coastal trade networks primarily via Berenike sea access, I came across good historical texts that went into territorial kingdoms on those ancient Eastern Desert peoples describing land e and political size, a kingdom that would span 800 years from the middle of the Egyptian Eastern desert, all the way to a region north of Eritrea, a region historically undermined and not understood in history, often classed as periphery, when it was, in fact, a separate power-region. Leaving from that context backdrop, let's get to the matter. One peculiar document in Egypt showed that a king named Kharakhen had signed a document using a symbol:

"A key piece of evidence for this kind of tribal rulership and administration is the signature that the king Kharakhen left on one of these documents, a ‘royal disposition’ with an extant pictorial monogram comprising a royal signature next to his name. The king’s signature appears alongside that of the ‘secretaries’ (domesticus) Laize and Tiutikna. It was Hans Winkler who first noticed that the signatures on this document bear a strong resemblance to geometric symbols common in local rock art, sometimes called wasm (‘marks’ in Arabic) and given to be similar in practice to the markings that Arab tribes use to brand camels and inscribe tribal territory in Arabia and Palestine. The Blemmyes possibly even learned these symbols and practices from Arabs who had frequented their deserts since the Ptolemaic period. Kharakhen’s specific ‘tribal symbol’, a circle with a line emanating from the circumference, is also found at a number of diverse rock art sites throughout the Nile Valley and Eastern Desert. At most of these sites, Kharakhen’s tribal mark is associated with camel depictions and other distinct wasm. Most of these locations are either in Blemmyean desert lands or near known Blemmyean haunts near the Nile Valley. These marks are found in so many diverse locales that they are unlikely to have belonged to Kharakhen himself; rather the monogram may likely be the symbol for the royal or lead tribe. This royal tribe had marked sites over a wide territory, almost the totality of the Blemmyean desert" - Cooper, Julien (2021), "A Nomadic State? The 'Blemmyan-Beja' Polity of the Ancient Eastern Desert"

I do disagree that Arabs influenced these systems because we see it among Somalis, we have it among many different groups in Sudan as well. Arabs and Cushites had many similarities. These types of symbols were found as far as the Neolithic in the Nile Valley with pastoralists engraving or painting symbols in rocks thousands of years ago, assuming those were the origins of such developments. There could have been, and probably was, a bi-directional influence that was deep in ancient pre-history between Arabia and Nile Valley but not after, in my assessment. That said, the rest is accurate.

Such evidence shows signatures of Blemmeyan chieftains signing their diplomatic messages with epithets that reflect epigraphic signifiers that were attested to be the branding of livestock, which were sort of symbolic representations of the specific agnatic status of the people and their extent, and/or structured into higher institutional systems as it indicates as well.

These salient features speak to a strong deep-cultural continuity. The Blemmyes and their descendants were seriously our parallels in ways that are almost too striking to be separate trajectories, but they were, separated from us in their ancestral times 3000 years ago. It speaks to the strong common cultural background of practices existing deep in time with their persistence.

These brandings were important for recognizing who they belonged to. It assured less theft of camels unless you were ready for conflict.

These markings also portray an understanding of symbolic significance, especially if you mark your territory, livestock and sign with it in contractual documents, not only does it convey a form of language of meaning but it also conveys a state of asserted meaning that justifies itself as being self-important, an internal cultural signifier that demands respect. It is inherently, cultural mechanisms that can scale for all forms of traditional to structural and institutional legitimiacy. It also portrays a shared understanding of vernacular for ownership. Symbols are meaningless in that regard unless people respect the conditions of that language. This inherently means the people of the region had a common language and understanding of ownership as well. These are strong sub-globalized cultural-civilizational markers.

 

[Idilinaa]

All the Nubian cultures were agro-pastoral-trade oriented in complex variations and thus you could have Kerma that essentially saw itself as pastoral first and foremost in ideology, engaging in a mixed economy and also supporting not second-stage, but regional super-power status of that time.

Nomads in the true sense are not transhumant pastoralists or agro-pastoral complex peoples. Neither us nor the Nubians were nomadic in its irregular meaning and I have read a study that fleshed out that the nomadic part usually is atypical.

"Archaeologists and historians have frequently confated pastoralism with nomadism and kin-based tribal societies (see Khazanov 1984; Meadow 1992). Further, archaeologists frequently use “pastoralists” narrowly to refer to communities that rely on herd animals for the majority of their subsistence and practice little or no agriculture, or to mobile populations seen as distinctive and separate from settled farmer neighbors (Chang 2015; Dyson-Hudson and DysonHudson 1980). These usages are problematic since pastoralism can take many forms and be afected by many variables that often fuctuate within and between generations (Salzman 2004)."

This is one description of how that can look in one context:

"More recently, Bernbeck (2013) has pushed against widespread assumptions about Halaf mobility. Instead of representing a dimorphic, nomad-herder versus sed‑ entary-farmer dichotomy, he instead sees Halaf communities as representing “modu‑ lar, multi-sited communities” (Bernbeck 2013, p. 51) engaged in mixed agropastoral practices. In this view, the shifting stratigraphy of many Halaf sites represents an intermediate scale of mobility, comparable to swidden farming, in which modular residential units (e.g., households) moved in multiyear cycles."
y.

To this last point i want to add a Chinese description of Northern Somalia in the 1300s because it's an early accurate description of a grain storage system that Somalis share with Egyptians and Sudanese. I mentioned without going deep into it to @Midas in his thread: Limitations-Of-Medieval-Somali-Urbanism: My brief take on Grain Storage and Rain water collecting system


Might have formed apart of that agro-pastoral package that @Shimbiris spoke about that came with the migrations of the early cushitic speakers to the Horn.

''The ruler of the country resides on the seacoast..yet produces millet. Tires of stone compromises the dwellings of the people. They dig into the earth more than ten feet, in order to store grain which keeps without rotting for three years.'''

This grain storage system which is called Bakhar is also used by grain traders. There is even a market in Mogadishu named after it in recent times.

Grain Storage Techniques: Evolution and Trends in Developing​

In production areas of Somalia and Sudan some grain traders are known to hold stocks of grain in large underground pits ( ' bakar ' or ' matmura ' respectively ) . When trading conditions are favourable these stocks are transferred to urban wholesale or retail stores.

Said Shidaad mentions this as well, comparing it to the ancient egyptian system of grain conservation.

Social and Economic Developments in Pre-Islamic Somalia​

Bakhar or mahkar: It appears that a system of underground structures that were designed to preserve the freshness of harvested grains existed both in Somalia and ancient Egypt. The possible similarity of bakhar in Somalia and mkhr in Egypt is supported by the similarity of this reservation technique. So, the technique and the terms may carry similar economic information.

Spoiler: Chinese description of Zeila how they cultivate wheat

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[The alchemist]

To this last point i want to add a Chinese description of Northern Somalia in the 1300s because it's an early accurate description of a grain storage system that Somalis share with Egyptians and Sudanese. I mentioned without going deep into it to @Midas in his thread: Limitations-Of-Medieval-Somali-Urbanism: My brief take on Grain Storage and Rain water collecting system


Might have formed apart of that agro-pastoral package that @Shimbiris spoke about that came with the migrations of the early cushitic speakers to the Horn.

''The ruler of the country resides on the seacoast..yet produces millet. Tires of stone compromises the dwellings of the people. They dig into the earth more than ten feet, in order to store grain which keeps without rotting for three years.'''

This grain storage system which is called Bakhar is also used by grain traders. There is even a market in Mogadishu named after it in recent times.

Grain Storage Techniques: Evolution and Trends in Developing​

Said Shidaad mentions this as well, comparing it to the ancient egyptian system of grain conservation.

Social and Economic Developments in Pre-Islamic Somalia​

Spoiler: Chinese description of Zeila how they cultivate wheat

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Simply put, rooted in pre-historic times, Somalis have descended from agro-pastoralists, subsistence economic strategies merely reflected the environmental opportunities available on top of the centralized capacities of regionalities, complex traditional institutions that facilitated relational trade-offs (incl. sub-specialization opportunity costs), and economic flow between groups that provide different goods and services. I will not call it a package because that connotation often follows rigid and fixed associations, whilst the agro-pastoralism we've dealt with was a flexible, non-linearly developmentally dynamic, party formed by in-situ challenges and opportunities. However, I agree with the fact that there is a synergistic direct relationship that comes in pairs in a broad perspective where particularities can be diverse in ad-hoc expression. This is me intellectualizing it slightly to qualify what I mean, broadly.

Throughout Nile Valley, you had the same practice. When things turned greener, more farming was added to the economic base, while if it turned drier, people leaned more toward mobile herding. It is unheard of that there was farmable land in stable conditions that were ignored for pure desert mobile conditions. People resorted to mixed economic practices since they covered more sustainable survivalist grounds. Pastoralist strategies was always very experimental in practice and never fixed since its inception. Early pastoralists in Western Desert Egypt had more fauna killed due to hunting than domestication, for example.

The grain storage was not only practiced by Egypt but also by ancient Nubians. One site was previously interpreted as an abandoned marketplace, now re-interpreted as functions of a storage space, the A-Group Nubians (and pre-Kerma, later Kerma, and C-Group) had places for such ancient repositories that were not subject to looting, if I recall correctly. I believe the earliest form of such a storage system was found in Neolithic Egypt. This makes sense, pastoralism was more so the beginning of food production for the middle-Nile valley Nubians and might have reflected a more agricultural shift.

What was more conservative was the pastoralist's ideology and practices within the culture of the traditions rather than the suite of diversity that was in agro-pastoralism subsistence. An example of this is that some A-Group sites dealt more with other economic benefits by farming and/or trade than their more mixed pastoral-based southern cultural-continual counterparts, however, the north had pastoralist ideologies in their iconography/art, ideology, and practice of burials irrespective of change in the lifeways themselves.

 

[Idilinaa]

Simply put, rooted in pre-historic times, Somalis have descended from agro-pastoralists, subsistence economic strategies merely reflected the environmental opportunities available on top of the centralized capacities of regionalities, complex traditional institutions that facilitated relational trade-offs (incl. specialization opportunity costs), and economic flow between groups that provide different goods and services. I will not call it a package because that connotation often follows rigid and fixed associations, whilst the agro-pastoralism we've dealt with was a flexible, non-linearly developmentally dynamic, party formed by in-situ challenges and opportunities. However, I agree with the fact that there is a synergistic direct relationship that comes in pairs in a broad perspective where particularities can be diverse in ad-hoc expression. This is me intellectualizing it slightly to qualify what I mean, broadly.

Throughout Nile Valley, you had the same practice. When things turned greener, more farming was added to the economic base, while if it turned drier, people leaned more toward mobile herding. It is unheard of that there was farmable land in stable conditions that were ignored for pure desert mobile conditions. People resorted to mixed economic practices since they covered more sustainable survivalist grounds. Pastoralist strategies was always very experimental in practice and never fixed since its inception. Early pastoralists in Western Desert Egypt had more fauna killed due to hunting than domestication, for example.

The grain storage was not only practiced by Egypt but also by ancient Nubians. One site was previously interpreted as an abandoned marketplace, now re-interpreted as functions of a storage space, the A-Group Nubians (and pre-Kerma, later Kerma, and C-Group) had places for such ancient repositories that were not subject to looting, if I recall correctly. I believe the earliest form of such a storage system was found in Neolithic Egypt. This makes sense, pastoralism was more so the beginning of food production for the middle-Nile valley Nubians and might have reflected a more agricultural shift.

What was more conservative was the pastoralist's ideology and practices within the culture of the traditions rather than the suite of diversity that was in agro-pastoralism subsistence. An example of this is that some A-Group sites dealt more with other economic benefits by farming and/or trade than their more mixed pastoral-based southern cultural-continual counterparts, however, the north had pastoralist ideologies in their iconography/art, ideology, and practice of burials irrespective of
change in the lifeways themselves.

The early agro-pastoralism is not only reflected in descriptions from the middle ages, but you see cattle/camel herding vocabulary but also extensive cultivation/farming related vocabulary in both Northern and Southern dialects

 

[The alchemist]

The early agro-pastoralism is not in reflected in descriptions from the middle ages, but you see extensive not only cattle/camel herding vocabulary but also extensive cultivation related vocabulary in both Northern and Southern dialects

Populations can change in extreme degrees from century to century based on the environment, as I said. I'm speaking from a time transect of thousands of years, which is necessary to understand the pastoralists' picture in a more accurate resolution. The region was greener in the past so a subset of agriculture which includes cultivation must have been present. Upon drier conditions, one gets less of that, certainly. Everywhere you see that is green was and still is tilted for productive yield. Somalis were indeed oriented around cattle in the more ancient layers.

By the way, the grain storage techniques you mentioned have their roots deep into history in Nubia and Egypt. That also speaks to the agro-pastoralist tradition that was inherent to the Somalis throughout history.

 

[Idilinaa]

Populations can change in extreme degrees from century to century based on the environment, as I said. I'm speaking from a time transect of thousands of years, which is necessary to understand the pastoralists' picture in a more accurate resolution. The region was greener in the past so a subset of agriculture which includes cultivation must have been present. Upon drier conditions, one gets less of that, certainly. Everywhere you see that is green was and still is tilted for productive yield. Somalis were indeed oriented around cattle in the more ancient layers.

By the way, the grain storage techniques you mentioned have their roots deep into history in Nubia and Egypt. That also speaks to the agro-pastoralist tradition that was inherent to the Somalis throughout history.

If you look at the descriptions Chinese gave to the Northern Somali coast, like the ones i have shown. It doesn't sound like the environment was that much different during the middle ages from how it is in 1800-present

Yet they were still cultivating millet, wheat etc:

''The Land is poor, yet produces millet''

'' The fields are barren, except only for crops of wheat''

''For years on end, there can be no rain''

The Portuguese makes no mention of the land or soil quality of Zayla unlike the Chinese but they do nonetheless confirm that they were cultivating grains extensively and even sesame they make oils from which they also exported

''Much grain grows here''

They also describe the berbera sheep which is interesting the blackheaded sheep's distinctness caught their eye i guess.

And the grain storage is a system is to preserve grain during periods of poor rain and harvest, it's more of a work around and adaptation to semi-desert or semi-arid landscape.

 

[The alchemist]

If you look at the descriptions Chinese gave to the Northern Somali coast, like the ones i have shown. It doesn't sound like the environment was that much different during the middle ages from how it is in 1800-present

Yet they were still cultivating millet, wheat etc:

''The Land is poor, yet produces millet''

'' The fields are barren, except only for crops of wheat''

''For years on end, there can be no rain''

The Portuguese makes no mention of the land or soil quality of Zayla unlike the Chinese but they do nonetheless confirm that they were cultivating grains extensively and even sesame they make oils from which they also exported

''Much grain grows here''

They also describe the berbera sheep which is interesting the blackheaded sheep's distinctness caught their eye i guess.

And the grain storage is a system is to preserve grain during periods of poor rain and harvest, it's more of a work around and adaptation to semi-desert or semi-arid landscape.

Nothing you say contradicts what I say; that is what I have been asserting with the mixed economic aspects of farming wherever possible. There is farming in the north today, and people practicing agro-pastoralism in the north with the current environment. No one said the region was green centuries ago. I don't believe that, obviously. Otherwise, we would not have the camel come in thousands of years ago (but you can have centuries of less arid conditions within a long drought) But there are greener sub-regions that allow for farming. The harvesting comes from a surplus of yield with the potential expectation of potential drought of some kind perhaps. There are many ways people can organize these things.

The black-headed sheep was likely imported from the Iranian plateau, a long time ago. The one we have today is something of a northern coastal introduction rather than what proto-Somalis brought with them from the Nile Valley. We have evidence of trading with the ancient Iranians so that is a possible entry point, or later. We had sheep and goats but I guess the one we have today was better suited for Somalis in that environment, the meat quality, etc.

The main meat export to Aden was from Somaliland. In fact, they mainly ate Somali sheep and other livestock there, according to a source I read a couple of years back.

 

[E-V32 is Akkadian]

The black-headed sheep was likely imported from the Iranian plateau, a long time ago.

source ?

 

[Internet Nomad]

The black-headed sheep was likely imported from the Iranian plateau, a long time ago. The one we have today is something of a northern coastal introduction rather than what proto-Somalis brought with them from the Nile Valley. We have evidence of trading with the ancient Iranians so that is a possible entry point, or later. We had sheep and goats but I guess the one we have today was better suited for Somalis in that environment, the meat quality, etc.

The main meat export to Aden was from Somaliland. In fact, they mainly ate Somali sheep and other livestock there, according to a source I read a couple of years back.

We didn’t get the blackhead sheep form iran but ours predestined theirs its seems.

 

[E-V32 is Akkadian]

View attachment 340748
We didn’t get the blackhead sheep form iran but ours predestined theirs its seems.

That's why I asked him where he got his claim from.
I asked him about the source before you wrote your comment.
That's why I asked him where his statement came from?
Because obviously he had heard that Somali sheep were called Persian black-headed sheep, so he thought that our Somali black-headed sheep originally came from Persia.

 

[Idilinaa]

View attachment 340748
We didn’t get the blackhead sheep form iran but ours predestined theirs its seems.

It has zero to do with Iran or Persia despite it's name, it was imported from Somalia by Europeans and breed in South Africa 1870s. The names comes from the dutch/Afrikaan name ''Swartkoppersie'' in reference to it's black head.

 

[Idilinaa]

Nothing you say contradicts what I say; that is what I have been asserting with the mixed economic aspects of farming wherever possible. There is farming in the north today, and people practicing agro-pastoralism in the north with the current environment. No one said the region was green centuries ago. I don't believe that, obviously. Otherwise, we would not have the camel come in thousands of years ago (but you can have centuries of less arid conditions within a long drought) But there are greener sub-regions that allow for farming. The harvesting comes from a surplus of yield with the potential expectation of potential drought of some kind perhaps. There are many ways people can organize these things.

You actually did, because you are ascribing environmental changes when agro-pastoralism is literally an adaptation to semi arid environments.

Which really hasn't change that much according historical sources. At least not for Somalia in the past few centuries.

The black-headed sheep was likely imported from the Iranian plateau, a long time ago. The one we have today is something of a northern coastal introduction rather than what proto-Somalis brought with them from the Nile Valley. We have evidence of trading with the ancient Iranians so that is a possible entry point, or later. We had sheep and goats but I guess the one we have today was better suited for Somalis in that environment, the meat quality, etc.

The main meat export to Aden was from Somaliland. In fact, they mainly ate Somali sheep and other livestock there, according to a source I read a couple of years back.

What a joke, a professional babbler.

I look forward to your next wall of ramblings of nonsense dressed up as information, that mixes different things here and there.

 

[The alchemist]

View attachment 340748
We didn’t get the blackhead sheep form iran but ours predestined theirs its seems.

I read that source before it came up on Wikipedia many years ago, telling @Sophisticate the same thing you're telling me now. The black-headed sheep has several variants, i.e., diversity from my understanding in Iran with fat-rumped variations, or at least in their phenotype. If you look at all the types in interior Ethiopia, you will see sheep variations that reflect the kinds of long-tailed sheep seen in rock art which were of several kinds in the region during ancient times. That quote you posted references a claim, not evidence or a study, from what I gather.

23&me results

I haven't gotten any J mtDNAs on my list yet. Perhaps we should also inquire about the OP's mother to satiate our curiosity. Those are Js based on 100s of samples. It's not common, and only two of them are unmixed, lol. The rest are either non-Somalis or mixed with Arabs. OP is fully Somali...

www.somalispot.com

I made an error by conflating long-tailed with fat-rumped.

But then again, I'm open to actual evidence. My side leans on the Iranian origin because of the reason laid out. I'm open to some deeper sources or genetic claims of some kind that would change my mind. Otherwise, if there is no strong proof, we would have to follow our respective judgments, as I did. None of the things posted thus far constitute evidence at all, by the way. You can have a pure version of something while the origin of it could be very mixed, given the amount of time passed. I do believe it had to come during the ancient times, to at least, the very late antiquity or early medieval.

 

[The alchemist]

You actually did, because you are ascribing environmental changes when agro-pastoralism is literally an adaptation to semi arid environments.

Which really hasn't change that much according historical sources. At least not for Somalia in the past few centuries.




What a joke, a professional babbler.

I look forward to your next wall of ramblings of nonsense dressed up as information, that mixes different things here and there.

Lol. There is something off about how you lack basic comprehension. Get yourself checked, sxb. I'm not wasting time on you with your insecure and obtuse stupidity. Get off my d*ck with the obsessive quoting these past weeks, low common sense f*ck.

 

[Idilinaa]

I read that source before it came up on Wikipedia many years ago, telling @Sophisticate the same thing you're telling me now. The black-headed sheep has several variants, i.e., diversity from my understanding in Iran with fat-rumped variations, or at least in their phenotype. If you look at all the types in interior Ethiopia, you will see sheep variations that reflect the kinds of long-tailed sheep seen in rock art which were of several kinds in the region during ancient times. That quote you posted references a claim, not evidence or a study, from what I gather.

23&me results

I haven't gotten any J mtDNAs on my list yet. Perhaps we should also inquire about the OP's mother to satiate our curiosity. Those are Js based on 100s of samples. It's not common, and only two of them are unmixed, lol. The rest are either non-Somalis or mixed with Arabs. OP is fully Somali...

www.somalispot.com

I made an error by conflating long-tailed with fat-rumped.

But then again, I'm open to actual evidence. My side leans on the Iranian origin because of the reason laid out. I'm open to some deeper sources or genetic claims of some kind that would change my mind. Otherwise, if there is no strong proof, we would have to follow our respective judgments, as I did. None of the things posted thus far constitute evidence at all, by the way. You can have a pure version of something while the origin of it could be very mixed, given the amount of time passed. I do believe it had to come during the ancient times, to at least, the very late antiquity or early medieval.

The black head is a characteristic breed of sheep specific to Somalia, not even our neighboring Afar has a sheep like that, look it up.

But it is a variant breed of the fat tailed sheep you correct about that, like camels they store fat in one place in their body and are adapted to an arid climate.

Lol. There is something off about how you lack basic comprehension. Get yourself checked, sxb. I'm not
wasting time on you with your insecure and obtuse stupidity. Get off my d*ck with the obsessive quoting these past weeks, low common sense f*ck.

The person who saw me mention the black headed sheep and then immediately linked it to an import from the Iranian plateau can't talk to me about a lack of comprehension.

I only care about getting the details and facts straight, i don't really have a personal beef with you. You reply to me and i've replied to you, its not that deep.

 

[The alchemist]

The black head is a characteristic breed of sheep specific to Somalia, not even our neighboring Afar has a sheep like that, look it up.

But it is a variant breed of the fat tailed sheep you correct about that, like camels they store fat in one place in their body and are adapted to an arid climate.



The person who saw me mention the black headed sheep and then immediately linked it to an import from the Iranian plateau can't talk to me about a lack of comprehension.

I only care about getting the details and facts straight, i don't really have a personal beef with you. You reply to me and i've replied to you, its not that deep.

I told you earlier, go get yourself checked and stop being on my dick, nigga. You're obsessively devolving my thread. No one is going to beef with you, other than not deal with you. Un-self-aware garbage conduct has consequences.

 

[E-V32 is Akkadian]

The person who saw me mention the black headed sheep and then immediately linked it to an import from the Iranian plateau can't talk to me about a lack of comprehension.

hhhhhhh
Note his lack of intelligent analysis.
The Somali sheep originated in Persia, because a white man called our Somali Black Headed Sheep "Black-headed Persian".

He is a fragile person with an inflated ego because he does not know how to admit or accept his mistakes and criticisms.
Don't waste time arguing with a narcissistic person.

What surprises me is that members of this forum applaud him for his pathetic pseudoscientific fantasies.
The members of this forum are either hypocrites or mentally retarded.

 

[Idilinaa]

I told you earlier, go get yourself checked and stop being on my dick, nigga. You're obsessively devolving my thread. No one is going to beef with you, other than not deal with you. Un-self-aware garbage conduct has consequences.

I don't think anyone else on this site has acted this overly emotional because i corrected them.

Relax it really isn't that deep.

hhhhhhh
Note his lack of intelligent analysis.
The Somali sheep originated in Persia, because a white man called our Somali Black Headed Sheep "Black-headed Persian".

He is a fragile person with an inflated ego because he does not know how to admit or accept his mistakes and criticisms.
Don't waste time arguing with a narcissistic person.

What surprises me is that members of this forum applaud him for his pathetic pseudoscientific fantasies.
The members of this forum are either hypocrites or mentally retarded.

It's an easy mistake to make they took a Somali sheep and named it Swartkoppersie in South Africa, i have no idea why but people should do their own research instead of jumping to conclude something they know very little about.

But the conversation got side tracked a little, i was trying to show sources from the medieval period of Northern-Western Somalis combining farming with animal husbandry, i.e Agro-pastoralism and that historically it hasn't been something specific to only the southern part of the country. So i was agreeing with him.