The spanish team new paper

[Midas]

Lol I was just reading the companion guide to medieval Ethiopia and Eritrea. I think these guys might just be the worse than the Spanish team.

 

[Idilinaa]

I'm reading this work and can't believe how everything is wrong. The scholarship here is weak to the point of utter disrespect. You can tell these people lack both dignity and integirty by how they write their bullshit. They think they can write whatever they want because of this perceived first-mover advantage, thinking they're not getting called out for their fraudulent efforts.

Everything I concluded about these people checks. Here you see how they juxtapose directly the fake "pure nomad" phenomenon with this weird obsession with their narrow and quite irrelevant view of centralization and statehood.

I noticed they claimed there was a political transformation because of influence from foreigners, specifically the economic trade relations. This was doubled down on this:

View attachment 358079


What they directly imply here is that foreign relations set fixtures of political infrastructures, whereas before contact, these people were unstructured "nomadic" vagabonds. Because of their Spanish ignorance, they seek to falsely contrive a model of foreign people shaping Somali adaptation, especially their wrong lens of reductive sophistication based on their Western historical, and quite inept value judgments. That is why there is the pure nomad, and a foreigner who comes and establishes "civilization". It's quite stupid and sad how they can't move out of their colonial perspective of world history. It's a childish and unsophisticated formula that drives their essential narrative on top of jargon that tries to dress it in respectable linguistics.

The word for camel was in the land since before the Rendille ancestors moved south. So we can look at a 2000-year-old phenomenon or older. Glottochronology shows that the word was nested thrugh descent not contact during roughly that time:

View attachment 358081

This goes well with genetic influence, intesification of economic relations with Southern Arabia, probaby drying of the region and expansions of economic internal logistics, as camels revolutionized the caravan industry wheras the donkey would probably be the chief beast of burden for taking goods from one region to another.

Aside from the fabrications and misreadings of history that many have already pointed out, one recurring flaw in these narratives is the obsession with branding Somali societies as purely 'nomadic.' They rinse and repeat this label without considering the full economic and social structures at play.

Let’s take a moment to appreciate how self-contradictory it is to speak of ‘nomadic kings’ who engaged in long-distance trade, lived in fixed coastal settlements, and had dedicated burial sites.

The allergy to recognizing pastoralists as capable of complex socio-economic organization is baffling. When confronted with clear evidence of indigenous political and economic sophistication, they always default to external explanations, as if local agency simply cannot exist in their framework

 

[Idilinaa]

There controll is always exaggerated. I think @Idilinaa even posted something about these guys didn't always even fully control adulis. You see this with how the governors of eritea were always somewhat semi-autonomous from Ethiopia

Yes, Axum was landlocked and Adulis was semi-autonomous. Axum had no ships or any maritime domains, it relied on Adulis.

Not only that them conquering Yemen is also exaggerated they got help from the Romans who also supplied them with ships and troops. So it wasn't necessarily a pure display of Axum outwards power projection or might.

I showed a text that referenced roman sources on the matter.

Eritrea was semi-autonomous and Axum was in larger parts landlocked, and had only limited access via adulis.

I noticed that in their invasion of Yemen they didn't have fleets and the Romans provided them with ships to carry their soldiers by sea from the distant in-lands to the west coast of Yemen.

I will also say that people make big deal out of Axumite monuments when it was really just a large palace or church largely surrounded by a sea of huts that commoners lived in. It actually shows you a culture driven less by commercial activity or trade, as well as high wealth inequality and lack of distribution of resources. Axum as an inland city did not maintain local industries, produced nothing of value in terms of tradable commodities, was not attached to a port anywhere near its immediate vicinity, only Adulis was a trade hub.

Reconstruction of life at Ancient Axum:

Whereas Somali coastal cities were far more uniform with evenly distributed stone architecture., where the urban experience is a lot more democratic and civilian focused, as it grew in wealth it progressed into a sprawling stone urbanisation, with houses that were up to several storeys high; These cities also maintained their own industries or trading commodities, that were exported through their busy harbours. They had their own vessels and ships that they traded and sailed with.

It's funny how those archeologists affirm the egalitarian , wealth distributive , commercial nature of those ancient sites, don't even see the direct continuation between that and how Somali cities in medieval and early modern era organized and operated.

This also shows you that Somali cities had a more organic and independent economic model. That idea that it developed in any way under the influence of Axum or others is completely nonsensical.


@Shimbiris is right there is no reason assume the Somali coast and commerical enterprise would have operated differently during the Pre-Islamic era, to it's medieval or early modern successors.

 

[Midas]

Yes, Axum was landlocked and Adulis was semi-autonomous. Axum had no ships or any maritime domains, it relied on Adulis.

Not only that them conquering Yemen is also exaggerated they got help from the Romans who also supplied them with ships and troops. So it wasn't necessarily a pure display of Axum outwards power projection or might.

I showed a text that referenced roman sources on the matter.



I will also say that people make big deal out of Axumite monuments when it was really just a large palace or church largely surrounded by a sea of huts that commoners lived in. It actually shows you a culture driven less by commercial activity or trade, as well as high wealth inequality and lack of distribution of resources. Axum as an inland city did not maintain local industries, produced nothing of value in terms of tradable commodities, was not attached to a port anywhere near its immediate vicinity, only Adulis was a trade hub.

Reconstruction of life at Ancient Axum:
View attachment 358224


Whereas Somali coastal cities were far more uniform with evenly distributed stone architecture., where the urban experience is a lot more democratic and civilian focused, as it grew in wealth it progressed into a sprawling stone urbanisation, with houses that were up to several storeys high; These cities also maintained their own industries or trading commodities, that were exported through their busy harbours. They had their own vessels and ships that they traded and sailed with.

It's funny how those archeologists affirm the egalitarian , wealth distributive , commercial nature of those ancient sites, don't even see the direct continuation between that and how Somali cities in medieval and early modern era organized and operated.

This also shows you that Somali cities had a more organic and independent economic model. That idea that it developed in any way under the influence of Axum or others is completely nonsensical.


@Shimbiris is right there is no reason assume the Somali coast and commerical enterprise would have operated differently during the Pre-Islamic era, to it's medieval or early modern successors.

I mean we have to big props to the akaumite steale. They are incredibly massive and I can't imagine how much labor it took to build them .

Though I do suspect the lalibella churches are more of a natural formation than actual churches dug underground. I think I remember it mentioned somewhere on twitter that these used to be inhabited by troglodgye cave dwelllers.

 

[Idilinaa]

I mean we have to big props to the akaumite steale. They are incredibly massive and I can't imagine how much labor it took to build them .

Though I do suspect the lalibella churches are more of a natural formation than actual churches dug underground. I think I remember it mentioned somewhere on twitter that these used to be inhabited by troglodgye cave dwelllers.

I’m not dismissing the scale or significance of Axumite structures they’re undoubtedly impressive. My point is that their urban and economic model was fundamentally different from that of Somali coastal cities. Axum’s layout where a palace or church dominated the city while commoners lived in huts suggests a highly stratified society with concentrated wealth.

In contrast, Somali cities were built with a more egalitarian approach, with multi-story stone buildings and a more distributed economic model, driven by trade and local industries. This indicates that Somali urban centers developed independently, without Axumite influence, and followed a different trajectory.

As for Somali coastal economic activity, there’s no reason to assume it functioned any differently in the pre-Islamic period than it did in the medieval and early modern eras. The same commercial and maritime traditions persisted, showing a long-standing independent economic mode

Interesting you mentioned the cave dwellers when they conquered the highlands in Futuh , they mentioned the inhabitants in those mountains living in caves in contrast to the lowlands. Maybe they are related to that.

"because they did not dwell in the lowlands but in the mountains and in caves"

 

[Zak12]

Not only that them conquering Yemen is also exaggerated

I've seen them claim that Aksum had conquered most of Arabia via Abraha's inscriptions. IIRC, it states he invaded deep into Central Arabia and subjugated the tribes there.

 

[Shimbiris]

Aside from the fabrications and misreadings of history that many have already pointed out, one recurring flaw in these narratives is the obsession with branding Somali societies as purely 'nomadic.' They rinse and repeat this label without considering the full economic and social structures at play.

Let’s take a moment to appreciate how self-contradictory it is to speak of ‘nomadic kings’ who engaged in long-distance trade, lived in fixed coastal settlements, and had dedicated burial sites.

The allergy to recognizing pastoralists as capable of complex socio-economic organization is baffling. When confronted with clear evidence of indigenous political and economic sophistication, they always default to external explanations, as if local agency simply cannot exist in their framework

What I find humorous about this "nomadic kings" jibber jabber is that this was for generations what the rulers of Abyssinia more or less were. Throughout the Middle-Ages and much of the Early Modern era Abyssinia was effectively "a civilization without cities":

Peasantries and Elites without Urbanism: The Civilization of Ethiopia on JSTOR​

Frederick C. Gamst, Peasantries and Elites without Urbanism: The Civilization of Ethiopia, Comparative Studies in Society and History, Vol. 12, No. 4 (Oct., 1970), pp. 373-392

Sci-Hub | Peasantries and Elites without Urbanism: The Civilization of Ethiopia | 10.2307/178114

They had pretty much no major towns or cities and the Solomonic Emperors, for much of their rule, travelled in a nomadic tent court that moved from province to province across their domains throughout the year:

The Wandering Capitals of Ethiopia on JSTOR​

Ronald J. Horvath, The Wandering Capitals of Ethiopia, The Journal of African History, Vol. 10, No. 2 (1969), pp. 205-219

Sci-Hub | The Wandering Capitals of Ethiopia | 10.2307/179511

It's ironic that people who were settled farmers were being ruled by an effectively "nomadic" Emperor whilst Somalis often did hole their Garaads/Amirs/Imams/Suldaans up in coastal towns and interior towns like Bardhere:

One of the few times they became quite settled-ish and built a somewhat impressive court at Gondar it was basically inspired by the Portuguese and is plainly just Portuguese architecture:

A Story in Stones: Portugal's Influence on Culture and Architecture in the Highlands of Ethiopia 1493-1634 (Updated & Revised 2nd Edition)​

It's honestly sad that in their ignorance of Ethiopia/Abyssinia's true history they're failing to analyze it in its entirety and sincerely. It's frankly quite an interesting civilization in its own way. A unique 2,000-3,000 year enduring feudal society practically to this day as you've explained. It's something of a fascinating case study but these idiots are too busy spreading bullshit about it to truly appreciate and study it for what it was.

 

[Maintainnnin]

I've seen them claim that Aksum had conquered most of Arabia via Abraha's inscriptions. IIRC, it states he invaded deep into Central Arabia and subjugated the tribes there.

Basically the entire Arabian Peninsula was his stomping ground, from the borders of Iraq and Jordan all the way down to the UAE.

The crazy part is that was second time Aksum invaded Arabia. They had briefly conquered Yemen and the Arabian Red Sea coast around 300 years earlier between 200-270 AD.

 

[NidarNidar]

Basically the entire Arabian Peninsula was his stomping ground, from the borders of Iraq and Jordan all the way down to the UAE.

The crazy part is that was second time Aksum invaded Arabia. They had briefly conquered Yemen and the Arabian Red Sea coast around 300 years earlier between 200-270 AD.

The things you can do to disjointed clans who all view each other as enemies.

 

[Duubpon]

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[Idilinaa]

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That last sentence sounds more like your own fantasy and projections. It’s telling how some of you seem more committed to unserious trolling and carrying pointless grudges rather than engaging with facts. Whatever you imagine, you aren’t harming Somalis, nor are you improving your own position by wasting time on this.

They are welcome to try pushing such revisionism, but it would be like claiming the sky is pink. The historical record speaks for itself Somalis built cities, and archaeological evidence confirms public infrastructure projects such as stone dams, large wells, vaulted cisterns, storage facilities, and even long aqueducts like the one discovered near Berbera.


When Somalis left Somalia, they left as scholars, merchants, sailors, and diplomats not as slaves. History isn’t on their side, and no amount of revisionism will change that

 

[Duubpon]

That last sentence sounds more like your own fantasy and projections. It’s telling how some of you seem more committed to unserious trolling and carrying pointless grudges rather than engaging with facts. Whatever you imagine, you aren’t harming Somalis, nor are you improving your own position by wasting time on this.

They are welcome to try pushing such revisionism, but it would be like claiming the sky is pink. The historical record speaks for itself Somalis built cities, and archaeological evidence confirms public infrastructure projects such as stone dams, large wells, vaulted cisterns, storage facilities, and even long aqueducts like the one discovered near Berbera.


When Somalis left Somalia, they left as scholars, merchants, sailors, and diplomats not as slaves. History isn’t on their side, and no amount of revisionism will change that.

Don't say I didn't warn you then.

 

[Idilinaa]

Keep on believing that.

These people are experts at rewriting history.

Rewriting history requires erasing evidence, and in this case, that’s impossible. The records whether written accounts, archaeological findings, or oral histories aren’t going anywhere. Somali civilization is well-documented, and those who try to distort it will only expose their own ignorance.

Instead of relying on vague warnings about 'experts at rewriting history,' perhaps we should engage with actual sources. Facts don’t bend to wishful thinking.

 

[Idilinaa]

I've seen them claim that Aksum had conquered most of Arabia via Abraha's inscriptions. IIRC, it states he invaded deep into Central Arabia and subjugated the tribes there.

The Aksumite invasion of Yemen was not an independent imperial conquest but a strategic intervention backed by Rome, primarily serving their broader conflict with Persia. The fact that Aksum lacked a significant navy and required Roman ships highlights its role as a regional player rather than a dominant expansionist empire.

Abraha’s rule in Yemen was more of a localized Christian kingdom rather than a direct extension of Aksumite authority into Arabia. His military ventures, including the Mecca campaign, were ultimately unsustainable, in some cases unsuccessful, and after his rule, Aksumite influence in the region faded.

In short, Aksum’s presence in Yemen was part of a greater geopolitical struggle, not a sign of long-term Aksumite hegemony over Arabia. The claim that Aksum expanded deep into the peninsula overstates the nature and extent of its influence.

 

[Rayaale]

@Shimbiris @NidarNidar @Idilinaa @The alchemist So galla

It looks like the Spanish team just released a new paper . It's got some intresting stuff but they have apparently taken their nonsense to new levels with some of their takes ( apparently islamization in the interior didn't really start before the 12th century and wasnt even complete by the 16th century View attachment 357972

View attachment 357970

Why do this people always discredit our history

 

[Duubpon]

Why do this people always discredit our history

It's too justify and prove the dumb "Africans were living in the Stone Age before colonisation" circlejerk.

However,it most potently used by Zionists and their stooges to paint the picture that Muslim nations currently in turmoil have always been chaos-ridden.

 

[Shimbiris]

That last sentence sounds more like your own fantasy and projections. It’s telling how some of you seem more committed to unserious trolling and carrying pointless grudges rather than engaging with facts. Whatever you imagine, you aren’t harming Somalis, nor are you improving your own position by wasting time on this.

They are welcome to try pushing such revisionism, but it would be like claiming the sky is pink. The historical record speaks for itself Somalis built cities, and archaeological evidence confirms public infrastructure projects such as stone dams, large wells, vaulted cisterns, storage facilities, and even long aqueducts like the one discovered near Berbera.


When Somalis left Somalia, they left as scholars, merchants, sailors, and diplomats not as slaves. History isn’t on their side, and no amount of revisionism will change that

I don't understand why you're being so aggressive towards @Duubpon. He didn't say anything trolly, imho. If anything he complimented you and the rest of us in saying that we should publish like these people are to counter them and their nonsense.

Ironically, that is exactly something you have advised me and advised knowledgeable Somalis in general do. Take it easy, walaal. Feel like you're too often in a state of dagaal.

 

[Duubpon]

I don't understand why you're being so aggressive towards @Duubpon. He didn't say anything trolly, imho. If anything he complimented you and the rest of us in saying that we should publish like these people are to counter them and their nonsense.

Ironically, that is exactly something you have advised me and advised knowledgeable Somalis in general do. Take it easy, walaal. Feel like you're too often in a state of dagaal.

She's definitely pissed I called out her and her victim-blaming Kacaanist brethren.

 

[chut]

16th century maps:

​

1552 Africae Tabula IIII​

1554 map

If you want more info on these maps or if you want to see more maps check these links:

link 1:

1552 Africae Tabula IIII

Aphricae Tabula IIII By: Sebastian Munster Date: 1552 (Published) Basel Dimensions: 10 x 13.4 inches (25.4 cm x 34 cm) - Antique Map, Egypt, Nile River, Sahara, northern Africa

nwcartographic.com

link 2:

Untitled Document

 

[cunug3aad]

Diridhaba international