Time line of the history of Mogadishu, a multiethnic city.

[Farabuuto]

waaqo stop the lies she never claimed aw barkhadle was a forighner she was simply explaining that somalis predate islamic exitence and dont come from arab migrants

stop misquoting her

View attachment 112392

ok how do you arrive to the conclusion that a I'm kaafir?

You're so obtuse. Where did I claim that Somalis come from Arabs? WHEREEEEE

don't throw your insecurities at me. I feel like I'm talking to babies. There's only like 2 people in this thread who know how to talk like normal people subhanallah if you don't wanna discuss just ignore my posts. Simple

 

[Som]

@Samaalic Era @embarassing

Let's use our common sense here. All those ancient cities like Sarapions, Mosylon, etc were all located at the coast or in the surrounding area...ALL of those ancient cities. Heck, one of them was located on a couple islands close to the coast but I can't remember its name.

It's pretty obvious these were fereign coastal market towns and trade powerhouses. Nomads couldn't have operated these and it wouldn't make sense for Somali nomads to be traders and then revert to simple nomads....these coastal towns were most likely monopolised by the Himyarites and other foreign empires, as the above posts suggest; Cerulli along with others already presented their evidence that those cities were first settled by Arabs.

Pretty sure Proto Somalis didn't even occupy the whole country at the time as well.

Let's be honest.
There is zero evidence to identify the ethnicity of sarapion inhabitants.
Proto somalis according to most sources occupied their present area by the 100 a.d with a few exceptions in south western somalia. Arabs were also nomad before islam and after that they founded empires.
Even during the caliphate era many arabs were largely nomadic and many others lived in cities.
But anyway everything before 12th century is too much obscure to even use the term "somali" so I would say Opone Mosylon and Sarapion were likely ruled and inhabited by the ancestors of modern day somalis.
Hymarite left zero genetic trace and few archaeological evidence, even in Ethiopia the sabean element has been proven to be exaggerated since most inscriptions in Ethiopia were made by locals using a sabean like script. There is not much evidence to say the somali city states were ruled exclusively hymarites

 

[Som]

There is also a strong trend among western historians to claim every local african civilisation as non African, so we should be careful about the whole hymarite thing.
They said ge'ez was imported from Arabia, but we now know it was a semitic language script devolped by locals indipendently
They said the great Zimbabwe walls were built by arabs but we now know it was local bantus that did that.
They minimised the african elements in ancient Egypt but we now know a whole dynasty of Egypt was nubian
Even the claim that somalis are partially arabs was used to minimise the local nature of somali civilisations and customs.
As somalis it's our responsibility to conduct research. That's another problem with somali history, even today we still get taught our history by foreigners who cite colonial sources and other biased authors.

 

[Farabuuto]

Let's be honest.
There is zero evidence to identify the ethnicity of sarapion inhabitants.
Proto somalis according to most sources occupied their present area by the 100 a.d with a few exceptions in south western somalia. Arabs were also nomad before islam and after that they founded empires.
Even during the caliphate era many arabs were largely nomadic and many others lived in cities.
But anyway everything before 12th century is too much obscure to even use the term "somali" so I would say Opone Mosylon and Sarapion were likely ruled and inhabited by the ancestors of modern day somalis.
Hymarite left zero genetic trace and few archaeological evidence, even in Ethiopia the sabean element has been proven to be exaggerated since most inscriptions in Ethiopia were made by locals using a sabean like script. There is not much evidence to say the somali city states were ruled exclusively hymarites

There's a lot.

The Muqdishu dialect most resembles Harari apparently.

 

[Som]

There's a lot.

The Muqdishu dialect most resembles Harari apparently.


View attachment 112411

This is the first time I hear this.
I read about af Harlaad which is the secret language of the madhibaan but they live mainly in the north. Af harlaad supposedly has a link to the Harla who are the ancestors of hararis and have ties with somali clans.
But your quote never mentiones Muqdisho and the association between harlas and hymarites is kinda weak.
I also never heard of this language in Mogadishu
It's a very interesting thing though

 

[Farabuuto]

This is the first time I hear this.
I read about af Harlaad which is the secret language of the madhibaan but they live mainly in the north. Af harlaad supposedly has a link to the Harla who are the ancestors of hararis and have ties with somali clans.
But your quote never mentiones Muqdisho and the association between harlas and hymarites is kinda weak.
I also never heard of this language in Mogadishu
It's a very interesting thing though

Harlas used to live in many corners, one of them being Muqdisho, Hararghe, and Ogaden. Not just the north. So yeah, they had presence in Muqdisho. It's been documented. There's also cave paintings in Ogaden or Hararghe that are linked to the Harla. Some say that the Cushites that got destroyed in northern Kenya were Harla too. They were very advanced agriculturalists. Their descendants are the Harari.

It all links together further with the file I sent u that talks about the truth on Banadir.

Muqdisho definitely had its own language and someone above even mentioned that historians called it "Muqdishian". It's closest to ancient Harla and Harari. Makes sense.

side note: the 'garaad' title is originally Harari but got appropiated by Daroods during Adal sultanate.

 

[Farahslayer]

Harlas used to live in many corners, one of them being Muqdisho, Hararghe, and Ogaden. Not just the north. So yeah, they had presence in Muqdisho. It's been documented. There's also cave paintings in Ogaden or Hararghe that are linked to the Harla. Some say that the Cushites that got destroyed in northern Kenya were Harla too. They were very advanced agriculturalists. Their descendants are the Harari.

It all links together further with the file I sent u that talks about the truth on Banadir.

Muqdisho definitely had its own language and someone above even mentioned that historians called it "Muqdishian". It's closest to ancient Harla and Harari. Makes sense.

side note: the 'garaad' title is originally Harari but got appropiated by Daroods during Adal sultanate.

What lies. The local dialects in Xamar are related to mast and general

Please provide evidence preferably video/audio any of these dialects. The madiban dialect isclearly Somali with a unique sentence structure understandable by most Somali speakers.

You habeshas are obsessed with claiming Somalis. There’s no evidence of any Ethiopian group anywhere in the coast.

 

[embarassing]

Harlas used to live in many corners, one of them being Muqdisho, Hararghe, and Ogaden. Not just the north. So yeah, they had presence in Muqdisho. It's been documented. There's also cave paintings in Ogaden or Hararghe that are linked to the Harla. Some say that the Cushites that got destroyed in northern Kenya were Harla too. They were very advanced agriculturalists. Their descendants are the Harari.

It all links together further with the file I sent u that talks about the truth on Banadir.

Muqdisho definitely had its own language and someone above even mentioned that historians called it "Muqdishian". It's closest to ancient Harla and Harari. Makes sense.

side note: the 'garaad' title is originally Harari but got appropiated by Daroods during Adal sultanate.

You must be trolling. Harla were likely a Somali clan that are now extinct. Most Hararis descend from an Ethnic group called Gaturi and not Harla.

Your making things up as you go.

 

[Farabuuto]

You must be trolling. Harla were likely a Somali clan that are now extinct. Most Hararis descend from an Ethnic group called Gaturi and not Harla.

Your making things up as you go.

Harlas are definitely not a Somali clan. You can't just say "most likely" to me when I actually RESEARCHED the Harlas. Some Harlas mixed but they were their own Cushite group. Harla seem to be traders starting from the time of Islam when axum was destroyed. Emperor Zara yacob mentions them as great traders

The theory that Gaturi, an old Berber tribe, migrated south and gave birth to Hararis isn't concrete enough. For now we need to accpet Hararis as either descendants or closely related to the Harlas. Many things give it away, even the name: HARla and HARari.

It's quite sad that you're trying to claim Harla as Somali. You clearly have an agenda.

 

[Som]

Harlas used to live in many corners, one of them being Muqdisho, Hararghe, and Ogaden. Not just the north. So yeah, they had presence in Muqdisho. It's been documented. There's also cave paintings in Ogaden or Hararghe that are linked to the Harla. Some say that the Cushites that got destroyed in northern Kenya were Harla too. They were very advanced agriculturalists. Their descendants are the Harari.

It all links together further with the file I sent u that talks about the truth on Banadir.

Muqdisho definitely had its own language and someone above even mentioned that historians called it "Muqdishian". It's closest to ancient Harla and Harari. Makes sense.

side note: the 'garaad' title is originally Harari but got appropiated by Daroods during Adal sultanate.

Harlas were integrated into somali genealogies according to Cerulli.
We have evidence of Harla people living in Ogaden but no evidence of Harlas in southern Somalia. It's possible that harlas are the pre somali people that gave birth to many ethnicities in the horn but this nees further research.
Your theory about Muqdishian is not supported by any of the major scholars in Somali and Ethiopian studies.
There is also zero evidence of this "harla language " being spoken in Mogadishu today or in the past

 

[Grant]

Interesting point.
But this leaves the question of the multiple inscriptions in Mogadishu.
There are several arabic inscriptions that mentions arab tribes and date back to the early middle ages.
Even the Somali oral sources mention arabs as the first inhabitants of Mogadishu. I'm saying somalis came shortly after arabs and took over the city. Since arabs were conquered by a homogeneous and stronger society they adopted our language.

Somalis kill the Yemeni Governor and enter Shingaani some time between 1590 and 1625. The bulk of this is from the Hawiyya oral traditions recorded by Cerulli in 1933:

Hiiraab – Page 4 – Explorations in History and Society

Posts about Hiiraab written by daud jimale

operationoverload.wordpress.com

"The emergence of the Imamate of Yaaquub in Mogadishu is related to the tyrannical rule of the Ajuraan in the interior, and the attraction of the growing Mogadishu wealth as a consequence of its thriving trade controlled by the Muzzaffar dynasty which was allied to the Ajuraan in the interior.

The Yaaquub is a lineage of the Abgal clan who itself is part of the wider Darandoole Mudulood group. The Darandoole Mudulood is a pastoral group that lived in Central Somalia, and throughout the centuries migrated Southwards.<!–[if !supportFootnotes]–>[4]<!–[endif]–> As a consequence of this southwards migration, the Darandoole Mudulood encroached slowly but steadily on Mogadishu city and came in conflict with the Muzzaffar dynasty. This dynasty in Mogadishu was itself incapable to withstand this migration and encroachment and opted for negotiation with the Imam of the Darandole.

Cerulli has recorded traditional narrative of how the Darandole conquered Mogadishu against the Muzaffar dynasty:

“In ancient times the Sirasi lived in Mogadiscio. The people called Halawani succeeded the Sirasi. The Mudaffar succeeded the Halawani. The Mudaffar came from the country of Yemen in Arabia. He had guns. He built the palace that is found under the Governor’s house. He was a friend of the Aguran. At that time the Mudaffar governed the coast; and the Aguran ruled in the woodland. The Hirabe were not nearby them; they lived in the northern places. At that time the people of the woodland could not spend the night in the city of Mogadiscio. At sunset a ban was put on the city: ‘Hawiyya, it is growing dark! Hawiyya, it is growing dark!’ Then they went away toward the woodland.

“Later the Mudaffar had an interpreter who was called ‘Ismankäy Haggi ‘Ali. This ‘Ismankäy had the idea of letting the Darandollä enter the city. A message was sent to the imam Mahmud ‘Umar, who lived at Golol. The imam, guiding his Page: 71 warriors, came south and approached Mogadiscio. Then what did ‘Ismankäy do? He spoke with the Mudaffar: ‘By now the Darandollä are near Mogadiscio, let me be accompanied by some soldiers, and I shall go to them.’ ‘How do you want to do it?’ ‘I shall do it this way. I shall come to an agreement with the leaders and make them return to the places in the north.’ ‘So be it!’ said the Mudaffar. Then ‘Ismänkäy took some soldiers with him, but without weapons: ‘Leave your weapons! We go out to conclude an agreement, not really for war.’ They put down the weaons. They went into the woodland. When they had gone into the woodland, the Darandollä came out and took all the soldiers prisoner. Then they continued the raid and entered Mogadiscio. The Mudaffar was caputred and they wanted to kill him. But he, looking at the people who had come close to him, saw among them ‘Ismankäy Haggi Ali. ‘Stop!’ he said then. ‘Before you kill me, I want to speak. O ‘Ismankäy, you are good for nothing, you are capable of nothing, you will not pass seven!’ he said. Thus was 248 ‘Ismankäy cursed. When the Mudaffar was killed, when seven days passed after his death, ‘Ismankäy died too. It happened exactly as he had been cursed.<!–[if !supportFootnotes]–>[5]<!–[endif]–>

The Darandoolle have conquered Mogadishu city and killed the Muzzaffar governor sometime between 1590 and 1625. The approximate dates appear to be corroborated by a Portuguese document dated 1624<!–[if"

 

[Pioneer]

Sada Mire even calls Aw Kawneyn (Aw Barkhadle) an Arab imam in her book and that he didn't have anything to do with the Walashma. Even Maldivian tradition says he was an Arab.

The fact that he taught a Maliki school of thought in the Maldives is a dead giveaway. If he was from the horn or Zeila he would've been Shafi at the time. Most likely he was a north African Abaasid, which makes sense considering some sources call him 'Berber'

I agree, also remember OUR ancient Somali forefathers like the elites Spoke arabic and
could write Arabic because of islam i think thats where Some Non arab People mistakenly
considered Ancient Somali/Culumaa and scholers to Arab.

We have to watch out for Historical revisionists who want Steal OUR HISTORY.

 

[Pioneer]

What Nationality is James Dahls?

 

[Juke]

Mogadishu was always a Somali city

Historical revisionists never rest it seems

That's delusional

 

[Som]

Somalis kill the Yemeni Governor and enter Shingaani some time between 1590 and 1625. The bulk of this is from the Hawiyya oral traditions recorded by Cerulli in 1933:

Hiiraab – Page 4 – Explorations in History and Society

Posts about Hiiraab written by daud jimale

operationoverload.wordpress.com

"The emergence of the Imamate of Yaaquub in Mogadishu is related to the tyrannical rule of the Ajuraan in the interior, and the attraction of the growing Mogadishu wealth as a consequence of its thriving trade controlled by the Muzzaffar dynasty which was allied to the Ajuraan in the interior.

The Yaaquub is a lineage of the Abgal clan who itself is part of the wider Darandoole Mudulood group. The Darandoole Mudulood is a pastoral group that lived in Central Somalia, and throughout the centuries migrated Southwards.<!–[if !supportFootnotes]–>[4]<!–[endif]–> As a consequence of this southwards migration, the Darandoole Mudulood encroached slowly but steadily on Mogadishu city and came in conflict with the Muzzaffar dynasty. This dynasty in Mogadishu was itself incapable to withstand this migration and encroachment and opted for negotiation with the Imam of the Darandole.

Cerulli has recorded traditional narrative of how the Darandole conquered Mogadishu against the Muzaffar dynasty:




The Darandoolle have conquered Mogadishu city and killed the Muzzaffar governor sometime between 1590 and 1625. The approximate dates appear to be corroborated by a Portuguese document dated 1624<!–[if"

Interesting.
But what about the ethnic composition of the city state of Mogadishu during the middle ages?
Who was the berber sultan and who were the dark skinned inhabitants mentioned by Portuguese sources in the 16th century.
Were the muzzafar pure arabs or mixed with locals?

 

[Grant]

Interesting.
But what about the ethnic composition of the city state of Mogadishu during the middle ages?
Who was the berber sultan and who were the dark skinned inhabitants mentioned by Portuguese sources in the 16th century.
Were the muzzafar pure arabs or mixed with locals?

Almost no one here will be happy if I answer those questions for you. Suggest you start with Chittick, the first link, to find your own answers. Because of the pandemic you can now read Jstor without the paywall. Just create an account.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/41409873?read-now=1&seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

https://www.jstor.org/stable/3171836?read-now=1&refreqid=excelsior%3A2f729ae74d288648b725b83229f66f63&seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

https://www.arkeologi.uu.se/digitalAssets/488/c_488734-l_3-k_jama.pdf

Renewers of the Age

Studies of nineteenth and twentieth century Islamic reform have tended to focus more on the evolution of ideas than how those ideas emerge from local contexts or are disseminated to a broad audience. Using the urban culture of southern Somalia, known as the Benaadir, this book explores the role...

books.google.com

The Shaping of Somali Society | Lee V. Cassanelli

www.upenn.edu