Visualising Fst Distances Between Somalis and Global Populations

[Abdullahi Ahmed]

mainly because they live in a scorching desert that no body wanted to occupy in the past but with the growing population and ever advancing technology of making deserts habitable I doupt afar will make it to the middle of this century, oromo hordes are already migrating to their deserts

We will see bro. Only time will tell

 

[Abdullahi Ahmed]

What culture?

Their language and way of life

 

[Abdullahi Ahmed]

Spoiler: Amhara

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Spoiler: Tigray

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Spoiler: Afar

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Why do Ethiopian Afars cluster with Habasha so much? Is this also the case with other types of afars? I thought they would be more closer to us?

 

[Thegoodshepherd]

Why do Ethiopian Afars cluster with Habasha so much? Is this also the case with other types of afars? I thought they would be more closer to us?

Think of Cushitic-Semitic Ethiopians as one population, and Somalis as a separate other population. Afar cluster with Oromo, Amhara, Sidamo, Tigray etc.. rather than with Somalis.

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.21.348599v3.full.pdf

https://www.chg.ox.ac.uk/~gav/projects/ethiopia/
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-23712-w

 

[The alchemist]

Afars are closer to Amhara than us? What's the reason for that?

I've seen an Afar 23andMe result, it looked half Habash and half Somali. Her entire family was from Eritrea and Ethiopia.

It makes sense. They stayed a little longer in the Eritrean plateau and received some of the Ethio-Semitic influence.

It was only confusing when some linguists told us that these people migrated from southern Ethiopia to the north. But now that we know Eastern Cushites arrived much later from a northern, southeast passage, it sort of makes sense. Afars have likely been a mix of what is maximized in Somalis and early Semites. We can include Sahos in this. It does not mean they are Habash, but they certainly did mix with them a long time ago.

There are also some possible traces of contact, in the form of lexical borrowing, with an East Cushitic language or languages already in Ge‘ez, whose sole representatives today in Eritrea and northern Ethiopia are the closely related Saho and ‘Afar. Amharic and its closest relatives also show some lexical borrowing from an undefined Highland East Cushitic language indicative of an old, pre-modern contact. - Aaron Michael Butts, “Semitic Languages In Contact” (2015): p. 18

śǝga ‘flesh, meat’: this is usually seen as a loan from Agaw (Proto-Agaw *sǝx-a)3 with the same meaning, though the g:x correspondence needs explaining. The situation is further complicated, on the one hand, by the fact that possible cognates of the Agaw term elsewhere in Cushitic show a medial ʔ (Proto-East Cushitic *soʔ-), and on the other hand, by the existence of a similar East Cushitic form *šaʕ- ‘cow’ (cf. also Beja šʔa ‘cow’ and ša ‘meat’). Yet another factor that seems relevant is the ‘Afar/Saho term saga ‘cow’, which shows the same medial as the Ge‘ez term, though of course has the meaning ‘cow’ and not ‘meat.’ - Aaron Michael Butts, “Semitic Languages In Contact” (2015): 19

Linguistics have already shown that Eastern Cushites, and specifically, Afar-Saho were in contact with northern groups like Agaws and Ge'ez speakers during the early days. Afars likely had little influence from Semites after the 7th century AD. But I think they're probably more Somali-like with some Habash/Agaw and minor real Arabian. I think Saho and Afars might have some elevated Arabian ancestry that came from Arabia which might skew the things toward the Semitic side. Also, they might not be Habash but a mix of an old type of admixture. For example. when Semites had higher Arabian and when Agaws were in more places. They could be higher in the Agaw component, lesser in the Semitic component, but they got higher Arabian concentration from those early days when people probably walked around with 50% Arabian DNA and now they sort of look considerable Habash on their non-Eastern Cushite side.

But again, many Afars and Sahos have common features that align more with Somalis so I think they range closer to the Somali side typically.

 

[The alchemist]

Think of Cushitic-Semitic Ethiopians as one population, and Somalis as a separate other population. Afar cluster with Oromo, Amhara, Sidamo, Tigray etc.. rather than with Somalis.

View attachment 355137
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.21.348599v3.full.pdf

View attachment 355134

https://www.chg.ox.ac.uk/~gav/projects/ethiopia/
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-23712-w

That Somalis are not on the Ethiopian block is a fact that I have described before.

@Reformed J This is a further elaboration on our discussion and I made a thread because I think such extensive posts deserve it. Here is the link for people who want background context.

If we reframed the question to where today's definitions of Somali identity stem from, it is doubtful it would go beyond the early medieval period. The definition of our historical identity recollection is considerably tied to Islam to the point where it would be impossible to define without it as it would construct away massive impactful process realities that resulted in who we are today. Drawing perspective from ethnographic conceptualization, a person who divorces themselves from that history and doesn't identify with the Islamic ways, our contextual baseline of who we are and our civilization down to giving explanations for views and actions on a personal level, will struggle with their identity since it is, by definition, ethnoreligious-like. The concrete answer to this question cannot wholly go beyond Islam, as it makes up about 2/3 of the definition.

A timeline breakdown goes like this: ~2700 years before the present is the nascent stage of early Somalis, then several punctuated steps of historical, cultural, state, and economic proportions, with the latest ground definition being somewhere in the medieval age --, still I would say 2700 years ago is the original spring of ethnogenesis that gives the context of a set group that later would change. The economic existence was entirely mature many centuries before Islam came. Adal, for example, was a late height of what Somalis had fashioned for economic infrastructure since antiquity, already running a distinct economic sphere and more expansive and coherent in its impact on the region, I might add, compared to the Axumite and their later Habash descendants who I have to emphasize was a totally separate entity. The cultural and traditional aspects were kept, in large parts, especially the agropastoral-trading synergy existing as a coherent economic system. When you examine the characteristics through the backdrop of all the knowledge we have, the continuity is salient, with changes being very complimentary developments rather than abrupt paradigm shits.

I have already proven that through genetic research, Somalis considered themselves of the same people group by how they had high gene flow among themselves but excluded all Ethiopian groups. You can never reconcile this with the notion that those many clans considered themselves as different ethnic groups; otherwise, you would have a difficult (impossible and irrational) time explaining how other Ethiopian ethnic groups are entirely out-group. Such asymmetry is, by definition, the highest-marked definition of an in-group. Our genetic history makes no sense if our ancient ancestors did not consider themselves the same -- where clan identity functions as a separate dual identity of more immediate kin rather than conflicting with the identity of a concept of broader peoplehood or as a lesser form, "race" or tribe. You could be a hardcore clan-ist but be genetically homogenous with a rival clan because of a deep, constant history of mixing, coupled with where the ultimate origin is the same in terms of deep lineage. If every clan was a separate ethnic group, you would see genetic structuralization that reflects this and much wider diversity, with more pronounced regional population assortment results.

Here is a previous post going into different things, undeniably, substantiating the topic:



Heck, the TVD matter thegoodshepherd brought up proves this even further.

Internal TVD (the red is Somali while the rest are other Ethiopian groups):
View attachment 317454

External TVD:
View attachment 317455

"External" really highlights this tremendously. It says that those Ethiopian Cushitic and Semitic-speaking groups have a genetic variation that does not need outside sources to explain their within-group differentials, while Somalis differ tremendously with that. Somalis are not a variation of Ethiopian diversity, existing on their own distinct cluster of population history. You can see on Fst and TVD how relational value in genetic diversity has its own closed-off population history dimension. So when people come and say that Somali is not an ethnicity or it is a recent invention, or even claim the group that we refer to as Somalis today are only close because of late homogenization, these people lack any meaningful insight on the matter to pathetic proportions. They talk without actually providing anything but their senseless irrationality. Every genetic study underscores my exact point. This late invention of Somali as peoplehood argumentation is unequivocally false nonsense.

These deviants that regurgitate unproven opinions that never engage with the actual research will claim all kinds of crap, speaking against the reality of research itself -- these are frauds.

I forgot to add this to that that underscores this as well. The idea that Somalis probably entirely autosomally came around the 3000 year period and stuck to the Somali peninsula has strong fundations.

 

[shakir2]

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Amhara and tigray who used to be hardcore ethiopianists are now turning into a secessionists due to the existential threat they are facing at the moment despite being 30 million + in number, so I dont think 3 millions ultra minority afars gonna survive, and its not only them but we gonna lose many other nations if ethiopia fails to balkanize within a year or two, hope somalis stop clannism so that we wont be one of those endangered species