Hamzza
VIP
Do you really believe Yemenis Arabized the people of Hejaz and Jordan?
Was Prophet Muhammed saw an Arab?
- Thread starter Qeelbax
- Start date
Odious Delirium
VIP
i believe that makkah became a hotspot for all the people in the region and various people came to settle there after the fact across the arabinan peninsula and the originals who came at the time of ismail and hajar and established makka with them where those Yemenis who relocated.
what your asking has been done on a larger scale in a shorter time.
america is made up of people from all over europe yet due to the brits with there colonization of north america they all adopted english and settled until they got a new unique culture different from the original English one with its own twist on the language made up of people from all over Europe
Hamzza
VIP
Well, this contradicts the apparent Marka because Yemenis were speaking Non-Arabic languages in the prophets' lifetime.
History books relying on written records >> History books relying on traditions
Fake ass Ulema. Stick it up your ass.
stop using haram arab superiority quotes by racists from 100s of years ago.
Yes, do you want the Seerahs that said Ishmael was the one who came to them, they taught them their language and he married from them? Then his offspring went back north?
It's actually the other way around in reality. Linguistics tells us quite plainly that the true Arabs were the 3adnani/Northern-Arabs and that Arabic originated around the Levant and Mesopotamia then expanded southwards into areas like the Hejaz and Najd until it eventually overwhelmed all of Arabia through the 7th century and onwards conquests. Pre-Islamic Yemen was more like Koonfur; a hotbed of West-Semitic linguistic diversity the way Koonfur used to be a hotbed of different Somaloid languages and still kinda is though Af-Maxaa is dominating more and more. Proto-Ethiosemitic, the Old-South Arabian languages, the Modern South Arabian languages (not descended from the previously mentioned group), Himyaritic and even some Arabic. It was only after the Islamic conquests that Yemen became a truly Arabic speaking region and until recently a noticeable chunk of it still remained natively non-Arabic speaking like in the case of the MSA speakers who, similar to us Somalis, used Arabic for trade and writing but spoke day to day in their native tongues:
The traditional 3adnan wa Qahtan Arab myth is pretty much assed backwards.
Hamzza
VIP
@Abu Hesi @JavelinIt's actually the other way around in reality. Linguistics tells us quite plainly that the true Arabs were the 3adnani/Northern-Arabs and that Arabic originated around the Levant and Mesopotamia then expanded southwards into areas like the Hejaz and Najd until it eventually overwhelmed all of Arabia through the 7th century and onwards conquests. Pre-Islamic Yemen was more like Koonfur; a hotbed of West-Semitic linguistic diversity the way Koonfur used to be a hotbed of different Somaloid languages and still kinda is though Af-Maxaa is dominating more and more. Proto-Ethiosemitic, the Old-South Arabian languages, the Modern South Arabian languages (not descended from the previously mentioned group), Himyaritic and even some Arabic. It was only after the Islamic conquests that Yemen became a truly Arabic speaking region and until recently a noticeable chunk of it still remained natively non-Arabic speaking like in the case of the MSA speakers who, similar to us Somalis, used Arabic for trade and writing but spoke day to day in their native tongues:
The traditional 3adnan wa Qahtan Arab myth is pretty much assed backwards.
Odious Delirium
VIP
that doesn't negate what i said tho
some yemenis speaking different languages in the prophets time doesn't negate that some yemenis traveled to and established makkah. these aren't the same yemenis.
the uk has danish/norse influence and genetic make up because years ago some Danes came to the uk but that now doesn't mean danish people should all be speaking english just because danes contributed towards making the english what they are now.
Odious Delirium
VIP
this doesn't negate what i said either. none of this is contradictory
Hamzza
VIP
The Yemenis who established themselves in Mekka/Medina abandoned their South Semitic language and adopted Arabic. This means that the Adnani Arabs Arabized the Qahtani Ajamis. The people of Yemen(all of them) never considered themselves Arab before Islam and didn't appreciate being identified as such. The only reason why Yemen was called Arabia Felix was a result of misunderstanding and bad Geography from the Romans. Arabia in Assyrian, Greek & Roman records was Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Hijaz and Nejd before it was Yemen and Oman.that doesn't negate what i said tho
some yemenis speaking different languages in the prophets time doesn't negate that some yemenis traveled to and established makkah. these aren't the same yemenis.
the uk has danish/norse influence and genetic make up because years ago some Danes came to the uk but that now doesn't mean danish people should be speaking english because danes contributed towards making the english what they are now.
Abu Hesi
VIP
Bro this is getting too nerdy for me, I am just going by the Seerah lol
Hamzza
VIP
Bro, go with the Seerah. I don't actually believe some of the things I'm typing lol.
Hamzza
VIP
It should also be noted though that Arabians as a group are all very genetically closely related and there was a general wider "Arab" culture predating even the Proto or Old-Arabic language. I mean the earliest mentions of "Arabs" date to Mesopotamia long before I think even Proto-Arabic was spoken. Arabians as a cultural, regional and genetic group have always been a thing even without a singular "Arabic" language uniting them which is why even when it wasn't really Arabic speaking the Romans knew Yemen as "Arabia Felix" (Fertile/Happy Arabia):
Arabia Felix - Wikipedia
Arabians meaning: Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Oman, UAE, Qatar, Kuwait, the native tribal elements of Jordan, Southern Iraq and Bahrain.
The Islamic conquests were beautiful in a sense in that it took these closely related but linguistically diverse West-Semitic peoples and mostly unified them under one language's banner, further bridging any gaps between them.
They are like an Eastern, Asiatic and more closely related reflection of the mostly Coastal Cushites in Northeast Africa. Bejas, Sahos, Afars and Somalis formed a sort of belt of very culturally similar peoples with related, albeit in some cases distantly related, languages and, in the big scheme of things, close genetic ties. The Greeks and Romans liked to lump us altogether as "Barbaroi" tribes that stretched from Southeastern Egypt down to at least Xaafuun even though we were obviously not one singular group but when you look at the material cultural similarities in the 19th century that probably existed back then as well you get why one would lump us together:
Bejas:
Afars:
Somalis:
But our chaps never had one conquering unifier who made one language among us the dominant tongue partly due to having those pesky Christianized Xabashi mountain cousins of ours standing in the way between us, lol. Damn you Dawits and Hailes!
Odious Delirium
VIP
the issue with what you stated is that adnan is a descendant of ismail however he is also a descendant more so from these yemenis that moved to makkah. there was only one ismail everyone else he lived with was these yemenis who moved. ismail was a infant when they moved permenantly to makkah. these yemenis taught ismail there language and he married from them his children continued to speak there language. more people migrated from across Arabia to makkah and settled there. the semetic language they spoke in makkah developed into arabic and since makka became the Centre of deen and trade for the arabs they all came and adopted it.
JackieBurkhart
The years don't matter, the life in those years do
It should also be noted though that Arabians as a group are all very genetically closely related and there was a general wider "Arab" culture predating even the Proto or Old-Arabic language. I mean the earliest mentions of "Arabs" date to Mesopotamia long before I think even Proto-Arabic was spoken. Arabians as a cultural, regional and genetic group have always been a thing even without a singular "Arabic" language uniting them which is why even when it wasn't really Arabic speaking the Romans knew Yemen as "Arabia Felix" (Fertile/Happy Arabia):
Arabia Felix - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Arabians meaning: Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Oman, UAE, Qatar, Kuwait, the native tribal elements of Jordan, Southern Iraq and Bahrain.
The Islamic conquests were beautiful in a sense in that it took these closely related but linguistically diverse West-Semitic peoples and mostly unified them under one language's banner, further bridging any gaps between them.
They are like an Eastern, Asiatic and more closely related reflection of the mostly Coastal Cushites in Northeast Africa. Bejas, Sahos, Afars and Somalis formed a sort of belt of very culturally similar peoples with related, albeit in some cases distantly related, languages and, in the big scheme of things, close genetic ties. The Greeks and Romans liked to lump us altogether as "Barbaroi" tribes that stretched from Southeastern Egypt down to at least Xaafuun even though we were obviously not one singular group but when you look at the material cultural similarities in the 19th century that probably existed back then as well you get why one would lump us together:
Bejas:
Afars:
Somalis:
But our chaps never had one conquering unifier who made one language among us the dominant tongue partly due to having those pesky Christianized Xabashi mountain cousins of ours standing in the way between us, lol. Damn you Dawits and Hailes!
No thank you, Somali is a beautiful language. I thank the Xabashis in this case!
No thank you, Somali is a beautiful language. I thank the Xabashis in this case!
War obviously we are the most successful Cushites. You think we'd be conquered and language shifted by Bejas and Afars? Nah, it would just be a case of Greater Somalia stretching all the way to southern Egypt.
Hamzza
VIP
The Yemenis spoke a Non-Arabic language. I thought the video I shared and Shimbiri's post which you claimed to not contradict your beliefs already established that. So if Yemenis populated Hejaz and taught their languages to Ismael and his sons, the prophet ﷺ and Quraysh would've spoken South Semitic language like today's Mahri. Obviously, this was not the case and the minority Yemeni migrants were absorbed by the more numerous Northern Arabic speakers.
There were actually more migrations from the North to the South instead of the vice versa. The earliest Inscriptions of the Arabic languages are found in Syria, Jordan and then in Northern Arabia, this indicates Southern movement of the earliest Arabic speakers.
The ancient Yemeni languages are more related to the Ethiopian languages like Amharic and Tigray than Arabic. It's not possible for Arabic to evolve from distantly related language like the ancient South Arabian ones.
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