Genetic.
Was the Kingdom of Kush Cushitic, nilotic or both?
- Thread starter Khaem
- Start date
That doesn't mean anything, Rome had heavy influence on Kush but that doesn't mean they were a part of the same population. Also descriptions from second hand accounts should also be taken with a grain of salt as you don't know what they are describing relative to.
Dinka today are pastoralists. If they were really a significant part of the agricultural Kush then why did they change to pastoralism? - especially given the fact that you inhabited Sudan's greatest agricultural zones.
If we go by speculation I think the relationship between nilotes and Kush was similar to Rome and the British tribes maybe. One of dominance from Kush.
Is there any genetic studies for Kush?
Also I'd like to hear your thoughts on Nabta Playa
Kerma period individual from Kadruka (predecessor of Kush) clustered closely to Kenyan and Tanzania Neolithic pastoralists (South Cushites). It's been a wrap for a while, asalka Nubia waa Cushitic
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VIP
You are right. Even medieval Kulubnarti Nubians were half way Egyptians and Somalis.
A group is Cushitic
C group is Cushitic
Kadruka Cushitic
Blemyes and Medjay were Cushitic
Kingdom of Kush however being a late member already had substantial influence from eastern Sudanic tribes.
Need to re read this stuff. That region of the world is very complicated.
Somali_patriotic
Everything unuka leh
Heard that the closest population to those kenyan pastoralists were somalis
Does that mean we can We wuz nubians?
What do you mean by genetics? Cushitic and Nilotic are both linguistic grouping, not genes??
More like you were descended from a sister group (of theirs) that moved to the Horn at about 2500 B.C. But yeah, if Gash Group (which I suspect were the major progenitors of modern Hornets) could qualify as Nubian despite its broad geographical range, then yup, you were Nubians and such.Heard that the closest population to those kenyan pastoralists were somalis
Does that mean we can We wuz nubians?
If I may: the Nabta Playa populace was a nomadic community of 10th-8th Millennium BC with occasional sedentary features during the Egypto-Sudanese wet spells of the terminal African Humid Period. They once reside in the southwestern fringes of the modern Egyptian nation. Like the Gebel Ramlah population, they were not morphologically homogeneous and some displayed more “North African” traits while other align more with so-called “Sub-Saharans”.
Their astronomical lithic structures were perhaps an old tradition of the Eastern Sahara shared across various biologically divergent peoples. This aspect was proposed to be an early rendition of later Nile Valley religious practices (namely the cult of Hathor) as well.
Another note-worthy point would be the “controversial” usage of cattle in that region. Many have proposed that Nabta Playa was an independent sphere of cattle domestication, while this is supported by their extensive knowledge on those animals displayed through archaeological records, the morphology of those animals remains wild.
Later, Nabta Playa experienced an influx of western Asian domesticated animals (e.g. goats) during the 4th millennium BC, along with a more sedentary lifestyle. The site itself was ultimately abandoned during 3400 B.C. when the desert became hyper-arid.
Note that Nabta Playa was once a lake, and a remnant of the African Humid Period, in fact. One can view it and the many southern Egypto-Libiyan lakes like Gebel Ramlah as miniature lake Chad therefore a natural hub attracting human populations and local fauna.
My take on the domestication part would be that these people absorbed Near Eastern domesticated cattle trough contacts with oasis further north, while they themselves were perhaps already on the first few steps of gradual domestication of cattle…as indicated by the recent discovery in Mesolithic Middle Nile (potentially a domesticated cattle, though if that was true then it speaks for a discontinuity in domestication status for Nabta Playa).
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Could these people be some of the unmixed population that was in the process of mixing to form the proto-cushites? Assuming they stayed in the Nile valley.
The site was also abandoned by 3400BC which is around the time of the rise of the Nubian Civilisation. Could these two things be linked?
And since they might have formed the early Nile valley religious practices then then could they have been absorbed into the Nubian and upper Egyptian civilisations?
Presumably, yes. Proto-Cushitic peoples would be a blend of proto-Nilotes and Mesolithic fishers from Cairo (the Helwan industry). Though as I have said in the previous comment, Gebel Ramlah and Nabta Playa aren’t morphologically homogenous. NP displayed more “SSA” / equatorial traits compared to GRM.
Yes. A-Group culture was geographically closer to the site than both predynastic UE & LE were. The opportunistic lifestyles (rapid transitions between semi-nomadic and sedentary lifestyles) would also indicate a larger influence from a population like GRM or NB.
An important information to know is that A-Group culture-bearers traveled between oasis like Dakhlah, Kharga, and if memories serve me right, even the western fringes of Gilf Kebir. Their pottery-wares were also discovered in regions previously occupied by a GRM or NP-like community. So yes, due to lifestyles and geographical proximity, there would be potential gene flow.
Although I believe the A-Grouo traced their ancestries to an earlier admixture event.
On the other hand, Naqada pottery-wares are scarce in the same regions, indicating less-contact due to the former’s preference for sedentary lifestyles.
Some of them might have been integrated into neighboring Nile Valley civilizations, but bear in mind that dental non-metric traits (this model shows more of an ancestor-descendant relationship, as attested by anthropologists before) show that GRM people were significantly divergent from Predynastic-Early Dynastic Egyptians and their A-Group neighbors.
A more plausible explanation would simply be the influence on proto-Naqada and proto-A-Group people in the western desert oasis’ (e.g., Faiyum, Bahariya, Kharga, and Dakhlah) through a common ancestor of Nabta & GRM .
Contact is most likely shown through the Khartoum-type pottery-wares found in cultures such as the Bashendi assemblages (Kharga & Dakhlah).
This core population from various oasis should be spreading out and settling in the valley during the terminal humid period (perhaps late 5th Millennium BC). Meanwhile some would be spreading westward bringing with them the proto-Berber language, and said process could have been a continuous trend even before the final abandonment.
The westward expansion is shown by recent discoveries of Natufian-rich profiles in Neolithic Morocco, and in addition to Natufian-associated ancestries, the samples also carried accumulated Iberomaurusian | Ifri’ n’Ammar | Moroccan_EN, some ANF, and minor proto-Nilotic (in one sample).
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Cushitic peoples trace back to Proto nitolitic groups that modern nilotes are also descended from
Nilotic peoples are related to Cushitic peoples. This is due to an ancient admixture event between a Natufian-like population from Cairo and proto-Nilotic foragers from Wadi Halfa & further south with a more robust phenotype (relative to their descendants).
I have read that modern Nilotes are not exactly the same as their Mesolithic ancestors due to additional introgression from a Central African population. Though the difference is not necessarily huge. There’s this Nilote teenage basketball player who looks like his Mesolithic ancestor (recon via Ancestral Whispers).
Who’s closer related to Cushitic folks, Nilotic or Amazigh aka Berbers ?
^Explained in this thread.
ADD: I’m not familiar with G25 but differences between scaled vs unsealed is likely due to proportions of “Eurasian” & “SSA” vs actual kinship via genetic contribution.
ADD: I’m not familiar with G25 but differences between scaled vs unsealed is likely due to proportions of “Eurasian” & “SSA” vs actual kinship via genetic contribution.
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Idk, I haven't really tapped into that topic all that much but from what I have seen, I've been getting mixed messaging.
This is for Sudanese Arabs and Nubians btw, idk about other Cushitic groups.
Some people saying that Sudanese Arabs are straight up more closely related to Germans than they are to nilote like the Dinka which implies we are probably more closely related to Berbers than nilote but others said that's not true.
These are claims from tiktok nationalist's from both sides so take it with a grain of salt
I believe Obama is a mixture of Nilotic and Bantu . His kin are from the Lou tribe. Apparently he looks Somali to my boyfriend for some reason. I don’t think so. He does have south Asian heritage, though. A lot of republicans believe he’s Arabic Muslim because of his name; which is retarded. Obama has an Arabic surname for the same reason as why African American surnames are Washington or Jackson. He was raised completely by his caadan side and SUPER Americanized. More than me . No traditional MUSLIM EAST ARABICIZED AFRICAN is that soft, nor would they allow their wife to act out like Michelle or dress like that.
More on the presence of A-Group culture-bearers in the Western Desert.
ADD: I have not looked into this article for a while. It seems my original claims of a presence in Gilf Kebir was instead a presence in Bir Sahara.
Two Predynastic pottery caches at Bir Sahara (Egyptian Western Desert)
Two Predynastic pottery caches at Bir Sahara (Egyptian Western Desert)
www.academia.edu
ADD: I have not looked into this article for a while. It seems my original claims of a presence in Gilf Kebir was instead a presence in Bir Sahara.
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Any info on the Gash group? How do you know they are similar to the Kadruka samples? I don’t doubt they will but got any studies done on them?
It makes sense for most Horners to have been from this Gash group. The culture is literally situated in the Horn (Eritrea-Sudan).
Do you think this Egyptian we connect with is a fellow Horner?
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