Was Zeila originally afar?

[awsaleban667]

His lineage is well known and its recognised by Ethiopia on a state level. We have Yemeni scholars (Ba Alawi), Harari scholars and Amhara scholars who all collect consistent manuscripts that are in agreement dating back centuries right upto Futuh and the Futuh itself. This is State funded and represents the viewpoint of the Ethiopian Government of Haile Selassie.

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It’s a 1k page long monograph exclusively dedicated to the imam funded by emperor Haile Selassie. It was non other than Tekletsadiks who was handed the responsibility to find out everything about the imam and nationalise it. Cerulli, Burton & Paulitschke are all referenced by Mkuria he compares all foreign chronicles as well as medieval Sarsa Dengle’s and Portuguese chronicles! Ewald Wagner who also worked with Ahmed Sami was one of 3 foreign authors in Ethiopia, alongside Cerulli & Paulitschke, Mekuria uses the work of all three, they produced an important monograph of nearly 1K published pages about Gragn that is accepted in the capital state university.

Walaal is there a translated version of the book ? do you have a link to download it ??

 

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Walaal is there a translated version of the book ? do you have a link to download it ??

It’s yet to be fully translated in English by professionals. Here is the pdf copy. I remember an Amhara and a Somali student were working on its translation but I think they gave up on it because it’s very long and difficult to get it’s accuracy. I’m not sure who is working on it now but it will be finished one day inshaAllah. If you know Amharic you can enjoy reading it. Hard copies are in Addis Libraries.

https://ethiodocs.files.wordpress.com/2017/06/ye-gragn-ahmed-worera.pdf

 

[awsaleban667]

It’s yet to be fully translated in English by professionals. Here is the pdf copy. I remember an Amhara and a Somali student were working on its translation but I think they gave up on it because it’s very long and difficult to get it’s accuracy. I’m not sure who is working on it now but it will be finished one day inshaAllah. If you know Amharic you can enjoy reading it. Hard copies are in Addis Libraries.

https://ethiodocs.files.wordpress.com/2017/06/ye-gragn-ahmed-worera.pdf

Do you have other cool books like these ?

 

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Do you have other cool books like these ?

Yes I will try and get hold of Syrian scholar Leyla Sabaq’s pdf who mentions imam was Garanle (Karanle) in her “Al Mawsu as well as Ethiopian author of many books called Berhanu Kamal who mentioned similarly that the Imam was Karanle. Just give me sometime. As for now here are passages of Berhanu Kemal page 13 translated

Here is bit more from the book. Don’t worry I will send you the complete pdf

Here is Syrian scholar Leyla Sabaq’s book “Al Mawsu” being referenced and read out by an Somali-Arab sister who did her due diligence and researched the imam’s identity.

 

[sultan.ali177]

His lineage is well known and its recognised by Ethiopia on a state level. We have Yemeni scholars (Ba Alawi), Harari scholars and Amhara scholars who all collect consistent manuscripts that are in agreement dating back centuries right upto Futuh and the Futuh itself. This is State funded and represents the viewpoint of the Ethiopian Government of Haile Selassie.

View attachment 294995

It’s a 1k page long monograph exclusively dedicated to the imam funded by emperor Haile Selassie. It was non other than Tekletsadiks who was handed the responsibility to find out everything about the imam and nationalise it. Cerulli, Burton & Paulitschke are all referenced by Mkuria he compares all foreign chronicles as well as medieval Sarsa Dengle’s and Portuguese chronicles! Ewald Wagner who also worked with Ahmed Sami was one of 3 foreign authors in Ethiopia, alongside Cerulli & Paulitschke, Mekuria uses the work of all three, they produced an important monograph of nearly 1K published pages about Gragn that is accepted in the capital state university.

Brother im not taking any Ethiopian souces they're the same people to say Adal was a Harari kingdom and not somali

 

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Brother im not taking any Ethiopian souces they're the same people to say Adal was a Harari kingdom and not somali

All Hawiye are in agreement that imam was Karanle.The abtirsi of the imam that’s officially recognised was 1st given by non other than Ahmed Sami the great Harari culema who produced the concise manuscript history of Harar from its early beginnings till the very end for several European institutions. I’m sure you heard of him. Here are just some of his credentials.

 

[sultan.ali177]

All Hawiye are in agreement that imam was Karanle.The abtirsi of the imam that’s officially recognised was 1st given by non other than Ahmed Sami the great Harari culema who produced the concise manuscript history of Harar from its early beginnings till the very end for several European institutions. I’m sure you heard of him. Here are just some of his credentials.


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How does he come to this conclusion? Did he read a manuscript from the 16th century that says Ahmed gurey was Hawiye ??

 

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How does he come to this conclusion? Did he read a manuscript from the 16th century that says Ahmed gurey was Hawiye ??

Gragn’s lineage was always known. He is from a long line of garaads and imams that preceded him from the days of Hobat kingdom all the way near the end of Awsa Imamate just before the Issa took over. All of them were from one dynastic family. His abtirsi is known by us and by Harari’s. Our one is more in depht lakin because we are his immediate family. The one Ahmed Sami uses is more harar based. Mekuria says generations were skipped, so after mohamed al agrani they stated karanle, the repeated Garan and Karan is what Ahmed Shami found in the futuh and they extrapolated it to Karanle, so no mention of sixawle, ciye, baad etc like karanle abtirsi. They knew the extended cousins and and nephews of gragn all linking back to 3 men descended from a Karanle prince in the lineage tree, the exact lineage wont be clear and linearly obvious so names were skipped but they knew these as karanle descendants. Garan and Karan are mentioned in the Futuh copies, till now i havent seen it, but the caption of the lineage tree states Karanle is found according to Shami and Futuh. I think the Futuh copy its mentioned in havent been translated with the context of Karanle, ppl are saying they didn't provide the transliteration correctly and confused it with his name Ahmed Gurey. But if its in Arabic the name Karanle will be in context of his people "Aal Garan". "Aal" means "people of". British Museum may have the correct arabic version and I’m planning to head there some day.

 

[sultan.ali177]

Gragn’s lineage was always known. He is from a long line of garaads and imams that preceded him from the days of Hobat kingdom all the way near the end of Awsa Imamate just before the Issa took over. All of them were from one dynastic family. His abtirsi is known by us and by Harari’s. Our one is more in depht lakin because we are his immediate family. The one Ahmed Sami uses is more harar based. Mekuria says generations were skipped, so after mohamed al agrani they stated karanle, the repeated Garan and Karan is what Ahmed Shami found in the futuh and they extrapolated it to Karanle, so no mention of sixawle, ciye, baad etc like karanle abtirsi. They knew the extended cousins and and nephews of gragn all linking back to 3 men descended from a Karanle prince in the lineage tree, the exact lineage wont be clear and linearly obvious so names were skipped but they knew these as karanle descendants. Garan and Karan are mentioned in the Futuh copies, till now i havent seen it, but the caption of the lineage tree states Karanle is found according to Shami and Futuh. I think the Futuh copy its mentioned in havent been translated with the context of Karanle, ppl are saying they didn't provide the transliteration correctly and confused it with his name Ahmed Gurey. But if its in Arabic the name Karanle will be in context of his people "Aal Garan". "Aal" means "people of". British Museum may have the correct arabic version and I’m planning to head there some day.


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Brother your giving me sources from 19th century I need something from atleast 17th century saying Axmed guray was hawiye and than I'll be convinced

 

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Brother your giving me sources from 19th century I need something from atleast 17th century saying Axmed guray was hawiye and than I'll be convinced

The book I showed you was written in the early 60s, the research was entirely funded by King Selassie's government but references chronicles of habesha emperors, futuh and foreign accounts all spanning the last 500 years. Its the most in depth study on Gragns history. The history of Gragn is beyond Somali history, all of the works around him are based on Hararge which has multuple ethnic groups. An Amhara scholar who wrote the history of Ethiopia from Nubians to Yakuno Amlak to Menelik and a Harari scholar who has copies of the earliest history of Harar preceding Ifat are in agreement that Gragn is Somali Karanle, what do our opinions compare in weight to a nation of people who write their own history? The family tree lineage presented by the great Harari culema Ahmed Sami was preserved on leather skin and was passed on generations. It’s in agreement of what we as Hawiye know of the entire Reer Ibrahim family and all it’s rulers.

 

[Zak12]

Is that twitter post implying Zeila used to be majority Afar a few centuries ago? Then how is the city majority Somali today? Some magical population replacement during colonial times?

 

[sultan.ali177]

The book I showed you was written in the early 60s, the research was entirely funded by King Selassie's government but references chronicles of habesha emperors, futuh and foreign accounts all spanning the last 500 years. Its the most in depth study on Gragns history. The history of Gragn is beyond Somali history, all of the works around him are based on Hararge which has multuple ethnic groups. An Amhara scholar who wrote the history of Ethiopia from Nubians to Yakuno Amlak to Menelik and a Harari scholar who has copies of the earliest history of Harar preceding Ifat are in agreement that Gragn is Somali Karanle, what do our opinions compare in weight to a nation of people who write their own history? The family tree lineage presented by the great Harari culema Ahmed Sami was preserved on leather skin and was passed on generations. It’s in agreement of what we as Hawiye know of the entire Reer Ibrahim family and all it’s rulers.

So that book is a Christian abysinnian projects im good bro,
I got a questions did karanle migrate from somalia or are they native to hararghe?

 

[Khaem]

So that book is a Christian abysinnian projects im good bro,
I got a questions did karanle migrate from somalia or are they native to hararghe?

Hararghe was recently conquered by Somalis a century or two before the futuh but was lost to oromo expansion soon after Ahmad Gurey's death.
It was settled by many Dir and Hawiye clans. Many got assimilated into Oromo and some even maintained their lineage.
But there are also some somalis who still remain and live in pockets dotted across hararghe.

Somalis were steadily expanding westwards into abyssinnia until oromos came and cock blocked us.

 

[Step a side]

So that book is a Christian abysinnian projects im good bro,
I got a questions did karanle migrate from somalia or are they native to hararghe?

The abtirsi was from one of the greatest Harari culema Ahmed Sami that compiled and produced many important literature on Harar’s history for several European institutions.

Hawiye has a whole is native to Haraghe.

 

[Step a side]

Hararghe was recently conquered by Somalis a century or two before the futuh but was lost to oromo expansion soon after Ahmad Gurey's death.
It was settled by many Dir and Hawiye clans. Many got assimilated into Oromo and some even maintained their lineage.
But there are also some somalis who still remain and live in pockets dotted across hararghe.

Somalis were steadily expanding westwards into abyssinnia until oromos came and cock blocked us.

Hawiye is native to the region. He is buried in Qundhura/Kundudo. All over Harar you have old medieval Hawiye towns and even entire Kebele, districts baring his name. Even that Ali Keno and Aw Cumar are Karanle figures.

Some of these towns literally predate Harar and were once part of the kingdom of Hobat a 13th century confederate state once allied with Ifat. It’s were the old Hawiye used to crown their Garaads from which eventually the line of Imam Ahmed would be produced. Hobat where the imam was born is at Erer Yarey, near Kora between Babile & Harar. Hobat is still called Hobat till this day and hardly anything has changed

 

[Yazir]

Nah, it was originally aboriginal and red indian town

No other ethnicity in africa or asia pleases its ancestoral lands with other nations, so this lowkey posts should be directly in the xashiis/qudhun section