What would be the most efficient way of removing the primitive clan based societies that are in somalia.

[Gacmeey]

Ehhh this whole concept of laangaab/laandheere is what’s keeping Somalia a sh*thole. Your stupid qabil means nothing to Allah swt and inshallah all qabils are eradicated completely in the future.

Nothing wrong with laangaab and laandheer. Just means big clan or small clan

 

[Basra]

View attachment 297772

I luv it!

 

[Kisra]

Urbanisation

The more Somalis in cities, the more interaction they will have with different clans the quicker tribalism will die

 

[HabarSteven12]

Somalis only understand and behave when the gun is involved. The only solution is a bullet to the head for anyone who engages in it. There is no other way.

It's true. We are nomads and tribalism is deeply entrenched in our dhaqan. Nomadic societies are generally anarchic and lawless. Nomads don't understand the concepts of law and order. It's either my way or the highway. That's why ancient civilizations and empires in the past were very strict on nomadic societies. A nomadic lifestyle was considered antithetical to state sovereignty. Nomads need to be dealt with harshly. That will humble and discipline them.

 

[ditto]

Nothing wrong with laangaab and laandheer. Just means big clan or small clan

Do you really think mr.log guy was using it in that context? He was prolly using it as an insult. Bro even said “no offence” Most of the time when someone brings up that laangaab/laandheere nonsense it’s to spout their qabilist views and act as thought one clan is superior to the other due to them being laandheere. We need to stop using those terms all together, as well as be honest with ourselves.

 

[xiin-finiin.]

Possible reforms:
Remove clan elders from high positions and remove their power base
Staunch Educate the growing youth and the next generation of children
Degrade clan based associations and ideals to the bottom

If these seem too much of a risk feel free to actually provide more or different ways in combating clanimo.

there is a much simpler solution and that is: "Create a functioning government". The clan fills the position of the government. For example, if something happened to you and you needed money, you can just call on your clan and they will collect money for you (i personally know of a case where 70k was collected for a guy so he could get an operation). So they act like a safety net. If your property is stolen by another person, then you can call on your clan and they will help you. If you get arrested, you can call on your clan and they will help you. If your relative is killed by a person from another clan, you can call on your clan and they might even go to war for you. The clan does all this and more for the somali. Unless you can find a government that fills all those roles, clans will stay forever.

 

[_Yusuf_]

Possible reforms:
Remove clan elders from high positions and remove their power base
Staunch Educate the growing youth and the next generation of children
Degrade clan based associations and ideals to the bottom

If these seem too much of a risk feel free to actually provide more or different ways in combating clanimo.

We need to learn to work with Qabil rather than trying to stamp it out. Regardless, it could never be eliminated, as Somali Qabil is over 1000 years old, starting with Samaale, and it's deeply rooted in Somali society. When the Marxists told Said Barre to eliminate Qabilnimo and religious practices from Somalis, the latter visibly dissolved, as you can see in footage of Somali women not observing hijab and bars opening in Xamar. However, Qabil did not disappear. The reason for this is that Qabil is an identity that can be either benign or cancerous. On the surface, it merely signifies your lineage, but because Somalis live in a desert environment with no substantial oil wealth to subsidize a normal modern life, we will always compete and sometimes resort to violence in order to secure the finite resources of the land we inhabit. I believe that with proper economic development, you will see a steep decline in Qabil retardation.

 

[Khaem]

We had a strong centralized government from 1969 to 1991. How did that turn out? Centralization isn't an adequate solution to Somalia's problems. When I lived in Xamar in 2006, the Islamic Courts Union also tried to centralize power and they failed miserably.

It turned out great actually. Somalia was developing as well as a standard african state Did. The collapse of central government is what brought clanism to new heights in somalia. This is literally common knowledge bro are you even somali.

You did not live in Xamar 2006. The ICU failed because of a US dictated Ethiopian invasion of somalia to overthrow the ICU. It had a great chance of unifing somalia under one government and ending the civil war near 18 years ago. But it failed thanks to Ethiopia and USA. And then a branch of the ICU broke off to become Al Shabab

 

[Khaem]

there is a much simpler solution and that is: "Create a functioning government". The clan fills the position of the government. For example, if something happened to you and you needed money, you can just call on your clan and they will collect money for you (i personally know of a case where 70k was collected for a guy so he could get an operation). So they act like a safety net. If your property is stolen by another person, then you can call on your clan and they will help you. If you get arrested, you can call on your clan and they will help you. If your relative is killed by a person from another clan, you can call on your clan and they might even go to war for you. The clan does all this and more for the somali. Unless you can find a government that fills all those roles, clans will stay forever.

The government usually does these things under the rule of law. But no such thing exists in current somalia. So the clan fills in the role of protection and rule in somali society. Clans aren't all lineage and stuff. Qabil in Somalia was always a political thing. The only way to get rid of clanism is for central government to hold more power and influence in the lives of common somali than the clan does. Which I doable by simply having the state enforce rule of law through millitary force.

 

[Grimmer]

Obviously a strong independent government will definitely be a game changer. But I believe the most important thing is changing the culture.

 

[mohamedismail]

We need a strong government . People need to change their mindset from thinking about tribal interests to national interests. Development, peace and stability should be the main focus.

 

[xiin-finiin.]

The government usually does these things under the rule of law. But no such thing exists in current somalia. So the clan fills in the role of protection and rule in somali society. Clans aren't all lineage and stuff. Qabil in Somalia was always a political thing. The only way to get rid of clanism is for central government to hold more power and influence in the lives of common somali than the clan does. Which I doable by simply having the state enforce rule of law through millitary force.

Finally someone that gets it. Pisses me off when people reduce clanism to just a barbaric thing that’s only good for FKD

 

[Khaem]

Finally someone that gets it. Pisses me off when people reduce clanism to just a barbaric thing that’s only good for FKD

Exactly. Thinking of clans as just lineage is bs. The whole point of clans was because recourses in the arid somali peninsula was scarce so Geelgires orignised themselves into clans to secure those recourses.

Clan became a political entity that enforced rule and distributed resources among the members within a region. They would battle with other clans over recourses and sometimes the clan leaders would origjnise under a tree, a standard Cushitic practice, and converse as you would in a modern day parliament or senate. Treaties and boundaries would be agreed and life would continue. They were basically mini governments.

Only way to get rid of them is by having big goverment get rid of all other political entities, influding clan politics and Al shabab ect, and replacing it with a centralised government and a rule of law enforced by a state army.

 

[HabarSteven12]

It turned out great actually. Somalia was developing as well as a standard african state Did. The collapse of central government is what brought clanism to new heights in somalia. This is literally common knowledge bro are you even somali.

You did not live in Xamar 2006. The ICU failed because of a US dictated Ethiopian invasion of somalia to overthrow the ICU. It had a great chance of unifing somalia under one government and ending the civil war near 18 years ago. But it failed thanks to Ethiopia and USA. And then a branch of the ICU broke off to become Al Shabab

The way out of Somalia's political impasse is not centralization. Somalia had a centralized government for 22 years before its collapse. Out of those 22 years, only 7 years(1970-1977) did Somalia experience a golden age and relative peace and economic growth. Even during that period, the Somali state encountered many shortcomings and problems. There was corruption, brutal repression against dissidents and mismanagement of Somalia's resources. After the Ogaden war, the country started to slowly disintegrate.

The ICU did the unthinkable and I give them credit. They established peace and stability for the first time in 16 years. They drove out the ruthless warlords from Mogadishu. They slowly began to re-establish the economy and provide vital services to the Somali population. The hardliners amongst the ICU wanted to rule all of Somalia by force similar to Said Barre. Even professor Abdi Samatar advised the courts against their expansionist adventures and blamed them for the massacres of Somalis. The ICU didn't want to decentralize power or hold peace talks with their rivals. They didn't want to negotiate with their rivals in shape or form. This led to their ultimate downfall.

Even Ahmed Madobe, who was then a member of the ICU, criticized their system of governance. When the Islamic Courts invaded Kismayo they encountered huge opposition. What did they do? They brutally suppressed their opponents. May Allah curse me in this life and the next if I am lying. I lived in Xamar during the reign of the ICU. I even witnessed the Ethiopian invasion. Yes, the Ethiopian invasion was part and parcel liable for the collapse of the Islamic Courts Union. But you need to look at the ICU from different angles to have a better political understanding.

 

[Gojo Satoru]

We need laws and a strong leader. Seems like somalis only listen with force

 

[Zak12]

A strong centralized government is key to all this. The only reason qabilism is so rampant is because the current government is so weak and useless that Somalis depend on their clans for security. Until a government is made that Somalis can trust, tribalism will never go away.

 

[BenInHer]

Qabil sports association is the only solution.

Have clans square of in sports, that way in
50years we wont hear qabil a raided qabil b village from some 200years ago. instead we hear qabil stats and dominance , and every 6years we have a qabil olympics where we invite the world to watch.

 

[TekNiKo]

Possible reforms:
Remove clan elders from high positions and remove their power base
Staunch Educate the growing youth and the next generation of children
Degrade clan based associations and ideals to the bottom

If these seem too much of a risk feel free to actually provide more or different ways in combating clanimo.

Eliminate all clan elders and warlords

 

[attash]

The way out of Somalia's political impasse is not centralization. Somalia had a centralized government for 22 years before its collapse. Out of those 22 years, only 7 years(1970-1977) did Somalia experience a golden age and relative peace and economic growth. Even during that period, the Somali state encountered many shortcomings and problems. There was corruption, brutal repression against dissidents and mismanagement of Somalia's resources. After the Ogaden war, the country started to slowly disintegrate.

The ICU did the unthinkable and I give them credit. They established peace and stability for the first time in 16 years. They drove out the ruthless warlords from Mogadishu. They slowly began to re-establish the economy and provide vital services to the Somali population. The hardliners amongst the ICU wanted to rule all of Somalia by force similar to Said Barre. Even professor Abdi Samatar advised the courts against their expansionist adventures and blamed them for the massacres of Somalis. The ICU didn't want to decentralize power or hold peace talks with their rivals. They didn't want to negotiate with their rivals in shape or form. This led to their ultimate downfall.

Even Ahmed Madobe, who was then a member of the ICU, criticized their system of governance. When the Islamic Courts invaded Kismayo they encountered huge opposition. What did they do? They brutally suppressed their opponents. May Allah curse me in this life and the next if I am lying. I lived in Xamar during the reign of the ICU. I even witnessed the Ethiopian invasion. Yes, the Ethiopian invasion was part and parcel liable for the collapse of the Islamic Courts Union. But you need to look at the ICU from different angles to have a better political understanding.

Even if the ICU had some shortcomings, they were objectively the most effective faction in the history of the Somali civil war. They would have no doubt taken over all of Somalia ended the war if it weren’t for foreign interference.

If you want to criticize centralism, you need to present a better alternative. Show me a governing ideology that was more effective in Somalia than the centralist governance of Kacaan or the ICU.

 

[HabarSteven12]

Even if the ICU had some shortcomings, they were objectively the most effective faction in the history of the Somali civil war. They would have no doubt taken over all of Somalia ended the war if it weren’t for foreign interference.

If you want to criticize centralism, you need to present a better alternative. Show me a governing ideology that was more effective in Somalia than the centralist governance of Kacaan or the ICU.

I would advocate for a decentralized system of governance within a unitary framework. Decentralization is widely considered to offer Somalis greater participation and representation in government. Previous governments appointed governors to each region, and mayors and police commissioners to each city. There is a strong demand for democratic participation. People want to elect their local, regional, and national leaders. For many Somalis, some form of decentralization is necessary. However, the most suitable model of decentralization for the country remains a matter of contention.

The US-backed Ethiopian invasion of Mogadishu was one of the reasons for the fall of the ICU. But there are other internal factors that have to be considered. The ICU suppression of dissent, aggressive centralist approach which alienated other clans and monopolizing power in Mogadishu. All those factors also led to their downfall. We need to take those factors into consideration. I applaud what the ICU accomplished for Somalia during their short-lived rule.