Which schools of Aqeedah do you subscribe too?

[Mudug_gyal]

The salafi movement is growing fast in Somalia

 

[daljirkadahsoon]

We don't man we describe Allah the way he described himself in the Quran

There is a difference between what the Qur'an says and what YOU BELIEVE it says. This difference is the crux of this whole discussion.

The difference is that we affirm our texts and ascribe their meanings as Allah intended them.

You cry all day that you describe Allah as He s.w.t describes himself in the Qur'an and yet you pick and choose what you want to accept. You reject the verses that explicitly state His transcendence and freedom from all similarity to creation. You then twist the verses with apparent meanings that would sound like a creation- even though Arabic language frequently uses for example the words for limb as attributes of power, etc AND INSIST that this is what it means.

This is the difference. We don't contradict ourselves every 2 mins. There is not a single statement we make that isn't consistent and in full accordance with the aqeedah presented in the Qur'an.

 

[daljirkadahsoon]

The salafi movement is growing fast in Somalia

They took advantage of the civil war and lack of any oversight + Gulf money to establish loads of schools and bankroll preachers but they are losing now and people are rejecting them.

All they have left is a disproportionate % of the business class more likely to be Salafi keeping them afloat but Ahlus Sunnah is strengthening and beating them at the media game and reaching the youth.

 

[Mudug_gyal]

There is a difference between what the Qur'an says and what YOU BELIEVE it says. This difference is the crux of this whole discussion.

The difference is that we affirm our texts and ascribe their meanings as Allah intended them.

You cry all day that you describe Allah as He s.w.t describes himself in the Qur'an and yet you pick and choose what you want to accept. You reject the verses that explicitly state His transcendence and freedom from all similarity to creation. You then twist the verses with apparent meanings that would sound like a creation- even though Arabic language frequently uses for example the words for limb as attributes of power, etc AND INSIST that this is what it means.

This is the difference. We don't contradict ourselves every 2 mins. There is not a single statement we make that isn't consistent and in full accordance with the aqeedah presented in the Qur'an.

But no salafi said Allahs attributes are similar to human beings thats literally shirk. Its not about picking and choosing its about not wanting to innovate. It says in the quran and hadith that Allah is above the throne

They took advantage of the civil war and lack of any oversight + Gulf money to establish loads of schools and bankroll preachers but they are losing now and people are rejecting them.

All they have left is a disproportionate % of the business class more likely to be Salafi keeping them afloat but Ahlus Sunnah is strengthening and beating them at the media game and reaching the youth.

I dont know what to label myself but I relate more to the manhaj al salaf sorry bro. Also arent salaf part of sunnah? I thought it was

 

[daljirkadahsoon]

But no salafi said Allahs attributes are similar to human beings thats literally shirk. Its not about picking and choosing its about not wanting to innovate. It says in the quran and hadith that Allah is above the throne

I dont know what to label myself but I relate mire to the manhaj al salaf sorry bro. Also arent salaf part of sunnah? I thought it was

They do that's why this whole argument exists.

The innovation is affirming that a unclear metaphorical verse is literal. THIS IS INNOVATION. We are the ones saying the meaning is known by Allah and we affirm that whatever it means is true.

They also pick and choose. This comes down to a lack of usul and making a mockery of deen by just reading one thing in isolation- we would be finished and there would be no madhabs if it was that easy.

As for the verse of Istiwa, no scholar in HISTORY has ever believed it was literally above the throne because as I have said 20 times now, ALLAH IS UNLIKE THE CREATION AND CANNOT HAVE ANY ATTRIBUTE THEY DO. Having a location means that you have a definite size and mass and this is impossible for Allah who is transcendent and does not have a body.

 

[Haragwaafi]

There is a difference between what the Qur'an says and what YOU BELIEVE it says. This difference is the crux of this whole discussion.

The difference is that we affirm our texts and ascribe their meanings as Allah intended them.

You cry all day that you describe Allah as He s.w.t describes himself in the Qur'an and yet you pick and choose what you want to accept. You reject the verses that explicitly state His transcendence and freedom from all similarity to creation. You then twist the verses with apparent meanings that would sound like a creation- even though Arabic language frequently uses for example the words for limb as attributes of power, etc AND INSIST that this is what it means.

This is the difference. We don't contradict ourselves every 2 mins. There is not a single statement we make that isn't consistent and in full accordance with the aqeedah presented in the Qur'an.

Who's we ? and if you affirm the holy texts then answer this simple question where's Allah?

 

[daljirkadahsoon]

Who's we ? and if you affirm the holy texts then answer this simple question where's Allah?

Allah doesn't have a location this is a blasphemous question.

You just seem incapable of understanding that Allah is not like you or any created being.

Space and time didn't exist before He created them- how can He be contained by a creation of His s.w.t?

 

[Haragwaafi]

As for the verse of Istiwa, no scholar in HISTORY has ever believed it was literally above the throne because as I have said 20 times now, ALLAH IS UNLIKE THE CREATION AND CANNOT HAVE ANY ATTRIBUTE THEY DO. Having a location means that you have a definite size and mass and this is impossible for Allah who is transcendent and does not have a body.

Asha'ri philosophical talking points kkk

 

[Haragwaafi]

Allah doesn't have a location this is a blasphemous question.

You just seem incapable of understanding that Allah is not like you or any created being.

Space and time didn't exist before He created them- how can He be contained by a creation of His s.w.t?

Ya jaahil when you pray in the sajada what do you say? I want a simple answer not philosophical confusing long answer

 

[daljirkadahsoon]

Ya jaahil when you pray in the sajada what do you say? I want a simple answer not philosophical confusing long answer

I feel bad if you consider this to be 'philosophical'

You've reduced all language to literalism it'd be hilarious if it wasn't tragic.

Have you never used metaphorical language in your life? Or a word with more than one meaning? If I say 'I'm in cloud 9', will you get a plane to try and find me???

 

[Mudug_gyal]

They do that's why this whole argument exists.

The innovation is affirming that a unclear metaphorical verse is literal. THIS IS INNOVATION. We are the ones saying the meaning is known by Allah and we affirm that whatever it means is true.

They also pick and choose. This comes down to a lack of usul and making a mockery of deen by just reading one thing in isolation- we would be finished and there would be no madhabs if it was that easy.

As for the verse of Istiwa, no scholar in HISTORY has ever believed it was literally above the throne because as I have said 20 times now, ALLAH IS UNLIKE THE CREATION AND CANNOT HAVE ANY ATTRIBUTE THEY DO. Having a location means that you have a definite size and mass and this is impossible for Allah who is transcendent and does not have a body.

Regarding istiwa, we dont know and cant comprehend Allahs throne, he sits on the throne in a way befitting of his majesty. Theres literally so much proof in the quran and hadith. Surah al mulk ayah 16??? Its literally common sense. Ofcourse Allah is unlike his creation who would disagree with that? @DojaKhat what you think?

 

[daljirkadahsoon]

Regarding istiwa, we dont know and cant comprehend Allahs throne, he sits on the throne in a way befitting of his majesty. Theres literally so much proof in the quran and hadith. Surah al mulk ayah 16??? Its literally common sense. Ofcourse Allah is unlike his creation who would disagree with that? @DojaKhat what you think?

Well you'd be surprised. In any case, our position is that we affirm Istiwa whilst negating any dimensional, physical meaning and leave the meaning of it and all other such verses to Allah

 

[Mudug_gyal]

Hi can I ask you a question, why do you believe that Allah being above the throne is anthropomorphic and pagan like? Why isnt Allah seeing, hearing etc isn’t? Allah doesnt see or hear like us so why do you think its paganism?

@daljirkadahsoon can you please answer this question? Many thanks

 

[Mudug_gyal]

Well you'd be surprised. In any case, our position is that we affirm Istiwa whilst negating any dimensional, physical meaning and leave the meaning of it and all other such verses to Allah

What is your interpretation of the verses and hadiths that imply Allah is above the heavens on the throne? Ayah al kursi??? Al mulk???Surah al araaf???
“Indeed, your Lord is Allāh, who created the heavens and earth in six days and then established Himself above the Throne.”
“His throne doth extend over the heavens and on earth, and He feeleth no fatigue in guarding and preserving them, For He is the Most High, the Supreme (in glory).”
“"Do you feel secure that He, Who is over the heaven, will not cause the earth to sink with you …?"

 

[Haragwaafi]

I feel bad if you consider this to be 'philosophical'

You've reduced all language to literalism it'd be hilarious if it wasn't tragic.

Have you never used metaphorical language in your life? Or a word with more than one meaning? If I say 'I'm in cloud 9', will you get a plane to try and find me???

And Allah swt said in the Quran:

Do you feel secure that He who [holds authority] in the heaven would not cause the earth to swallow you and suddenly it would sway?​

- Quran 67:16

They fear their Lord above them, and they do what they are commanded​

- Quran 16:50

To Him ascends good speech, and righteous work raises it.​

- Quran 35:10

He arranges [each] matter from the heaven to the earth; then it will ascend to Him in a Day.​

- Quran 32:5

 

[amiirad]

where is my athari shafi'i at?

 

[Mudug_gyal]

where is my athari shafi'i at?

Over here

 

[Keep it a boqol]

They do that's why this whole argument exists.

The innovation is affirming that a unclear metaphorical verse is literal. THIS IS INNOVATION. We are the ones saying the meaning is known by Allah and we affirm that whatever it means is true.

They also pick and choose. This comes down to a lack of usul and making a mockery of deen by just reading one thing in isolation- we would be finished and there would be no madhabs if it was that easy.

As for the verse of Istiwa, no scholar in HISTORY has ever believed it was literally above the throne because as I have said 20 times now, ALLAH IS UNLIKE THE CREATION AND CANNOT HAVE ANY ATTRIBUTE THEY DO. Having a location means that you have a definite size and mass and this is impossible for Allah who is transcendent and does not have a body.

No scholar in history kulaha the 4 great imams rahimallah have stated allahs above the throne as it befits his majesty

When Imaam Abu Haneefah (Rahimahullah) was asked of his opinion of the one who says i do not know whether Allaah (Subhaanahu wa ta’aala) is above the heavens or on the earth,

Imaam Abu Haneefah (Rahimahullah) said:

He has disbelieved, because Allah (Subhaanahu wa ta’aala) says: “The Most Merciful rose above the Throne”, and His Throne is above His (Subhaanahu wa ta’aala) seven heavenst

He was then asked, what if he said that Allah (Subhaanahu wa ta’aala) is above His (Subhaanahu wa ta’aala) Throne but he does not know whether the Throne is in the heavens or on the earth he said, he has disbelieved. because he has denied that He (subhaanahu wa ta’aala) is above the heavens

[Quoted in Al-Uluww of Adh»Dhahabi, also in Sharh Aqeedah At»Tahawiyyah of Ibn Abi AI-lzz AI»Hanafi]

lmaam Malik (Rahimahullah) said when replying to the one who asked, ‘How did Allah make lstawaa? (Ascension above the Throne),

Al-lstawaa is Known, and its how is unknown, to have faith in it is obligatory, and to question it is an innovation.” Then he said to the questioner, “i do not think except that you are an innovator” and he ordered him to be expelled.

[Quoted in AI-Asmaa was Sifaat’ Page #.516]

Imaam Ash-Shafi’ee (Rahimahullah) said:

The belief that I am upon, and I saw Our Companions, the Ashab-ul- Hadith (People of hadith) – like Imaam Malik and Sufvan and others – to be upon is:
Affirming the testimony that none has the right to be worshipped except Allah (Subhaanahu wa ta’aala) and that Muhammad (Sal-Allahu ‘alayhe wa sallam) is the Messenger of Allah. And that Allah (Subhaanahu wa ta’aala) is above His Throne. above His heaven. He comes close to His creation howsoever He Wills, and He (Subhaanahu wa ta’aala) Descends to the lowest heaven howsoever He Wills.

[Quoted in ‘Awn aI-Ma’bood’ (13/41), and ibn Abu Ya’la reports it in ‘Tabaqaat aI»Hanaabilaa‘ (1/283) with a chain of narration linked back to lmaam Ash-Shafi’ee.)

Imaam Ash-Shafi’ee (Rahimahullah) said on another occasion:

“To Allah (Subhaanahu wa ta’aala) belong Names and Attributes that occur in His Book and His Prophet informed to the nation. It is not possible for anyone to refute (radd) them. So the one who contradicts this after the evidence has been established against him then he is a kafir (disbeliever), and as for before the establishment of the proof then he is excused due to ignorance, because the knowledge of that cannot be attained through the intellect. So we affirm these Attributes and we negate tashbeeh (likening Allah (Subhaanahu wa ta’aala) to creation) as Allah (Subhaanahu wa ta’aala) negated it by saying, ‘there is nothing like Him.”‘

[Quoted in ‘Siyar A’Iaam an-Nubalaa’ (10/80)]

lmaam Ahmad (Rahimahullah) was asked: “Allah is above the seventh heaven, above His Throne. distinct from his creation, and His Power and Knowledge are in every place?”

He (Rahimahullah) replied:

Yes. above the Throne and His Knowledge is in every place

(Quoted in Sharh Usool ilal‘tiqaad]

 

[reer]

Stating the facts isn't "sectarianism" as I'm using the Quran and the Sunnah of the prophet to back up my claims

you say you reject ta'wil but you do ta'wil with other verses. lol. also dont blanken insult asharis they contributed alot to the shafi madhab.

 

[reer]

where is my athari shafi'i at?

here.