Which schools of Aqeedah do you subscribe too?

[daljirkadahsoon]

Since when did the Haanabila become majority of the Ummah? And even among the Hanaabila there are Ash’ari

The Hanaabila are mostly Athari- but the correct Atharis not the mujassima who larp as Athari.

 

[Garaad Awal]

Are you an actual Twelver @kai8863 or trolling like the other user?

 

[Chillin]

Some of his points are much more athari than ashar’i especially when it comes to tawasul. The originator of tariqa the salihiya tariqa came from is also more so athari in some fundamental ways like keeping silent on things that haven’t been addressed

Him believing differently from other Sufis on the topic of tawasul has nothing to do with his beliefs on the attributes of Allah, the sayid was a pure ashari in his aqeedah out side of that he had different belief from other Sufis which isn’t surprising since he was a saalihi

 

[al-Mu'tamid المعتمد]

It’s using common sense. Do I need to ask everyone in the world if the world is flat to come to the conclusion that the world is flat? I know logic and common sense is a difficult task for the extremist literalist cultists of MIAW

Instead of spewing nonsense bring proof.

 

[al-Mu'tamid المعتمد]

'Asha'irah and Maturidiyah are basically the same for all intents and purposes and collectively they form virtually the entire Sunni world.

The Najdi school started in 1700s and has found virtually no acceptance outside of some pockets of the Gulf and Western diasporas divorced from their intellectual heritage.

This is despite at least $75 billion being spent by the Saudis to ram it down people's throats: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_propagation_of_Salafism_and_Wahhabism_by_region

It's not a matter of argument literally go on Google, search for 'global Muslim population' and see the breakdown of Sunni.

Yeah, sure... and Ilm al-Kalam was also actively used prior to the Abbasid takeover? You provided still no evidence, resorting instead to "google it". The reality is that the general people don't follow that nonsense. Additionally, there is a clear Hadith that states:

Ibn Umar reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, 'Verily, Allah will not let my nation agree upon misguidance.'

(Sunan al-Tirmidhī 2167)

Either one of the two assertions is incorrect. Also I know for a fact that neither the Sahaba nor the Tabi'in, nor the Tabi‘u al-tabi‘in, ever engaged in the same practices as these groups did. Bring me one Sahabi who held similar beliefs to the groups you mentioned. Also your assumption that Salafiyyah is a new concept shows ignorance. Since when has adhering to the ways of the Prophet and his companions, as well as those who followed them in piety, been considered new?

 

[daljirkadahsoon]

Instead of spewing nonsense bring proof.

The one who lacks proof is you.

There is no 'Salafi' majority nation on Earth and no Muslim nation has a Salafi minority that exceeds even 10% of the population.

Western polls put them at a few % of the Muslim world

 

[al-Mu'tamid المعتمد]

The one who lacks proof is you.

There is no 'Salafi' majority nation on Earth and no Muslim nation has a Salafi minority that exceeds even 10% of the population.

Western polls put them at a few % of the Muslim world

Instead of responsing like an NPC bring facts. You made the claim that Ash'ariyyah is the majority of the Muslims. So bring proof...

 

[daljirkadahsoon]

Yeah, sure... and Ilm al-Kalam was also actively used prior to the Abbasid takeover? You provided still no evidence, resorting instead to "google it". The reality is that the general people don't follow that nonsense. Additionally, there is a clear Hadith that states:

Ibn Umar reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, 'Verily, Allah will not let my nation agree upon misguidance.'

(Sunan al-Tirmidhī 2167)

Either one of the two assertions is incorrect. Also I know for a fact that neither the Sahaba nor the Tabi'in, nor the Tabi‘u al-tabi‘in, ever engaged in the same practices as these groups did. Bring me one Sahabi who held similar beliefs to the groups you mentioned. Also your assumption that Salafiyyah is a new concept shows ignorance. Since when has adhering to the ways of the Prophet and his companions, as well as those who followed them in piety, been considered new?

Actually yes there are Sahaba who interpreted verses in the same way.

The hadith you just posted is a proof against your school not for for the vast majority of the Ummah from now since the blessed time have been of the three Sunni schools of aqeedah: 'Ash'ari, Maturidi and Athari (mostly held by the Sunni Hanbalis not the fake claimants).

Salafis merely claiming they 'follow' doesn't mean they do. I could claim to be anything it doesn't mean I am that thing not unless i actually do as the Sahaba were documented to do.

 

[daljirkadahsoon]

Instead of responsing like an NPC bring facts. You made the claim that Ash'ariyyah is the majority of the Muslims. So bring proof...

The one making the extraordinary claim is you, not me so the burden of proof is on you.

You won't though because Salafis are a tiny minority and non-existent before the 1700s- none of our giants, our scholars, rulers, great holy men, not a single one was on that ideology, not a single one. Name a single Salafi important in the history of Islam and no we are not including recent figures limited to Saudi Arabia. Name a Salafi equivalent of Salahudeen al Ayyubi or Qadi Iyadh.

The history of Islam from the time of the Prophet ﷺ until now is a history of the Sunnis with their three schools of aqeedah. Before 1700s, there's literally two characters in the entire history of Islam with the vast lands of the Muslims + Ibn Taymiyyah who recanted from the incorrect views AND who was a Qadiri Sufi! Salafis don't have isnad or a continuous legacy from the time of the Prophet ﷺ.

The Salafi mindset is actually derogatory and based on a bad opinion of the divine promise to protect Islam and preserve it because they believe that the vast majority of the Ummah until they came was upon misguidance!

 

[al-Mu'tamid المعتمد]

Actually yes there are Sahaba who interpreted verses in the same way.

The hadith you just posted is a proof against your school not for for the vast majority of the Ummah from now since the blessed time have been of the three Sunni schools of aqeedah: 'Ash'ari, Maturidi and Athari (mostly held by the Sunni Hanbalis not the fake claimants).

Salafis merely claiming they 'follow' doesn't mean they do. I could claim to be anything it doesn't mean I am that thing not unless i actually do as the Sahaba were documented to do.

Okay give me one sahabi that uses Ilm ul-Kalam.

 

[al-Mu'tamid المعتمد]

The one making the extraordinary claim is you, not me so the burden of proof is on you.

You won't though because Salafis are a tiny minority and non-existent before the 1700s- none of our giants, our scholars, rulers, great holy men, not a single one was on that ideology, not a single one. Name a single Salafi important in the history of Islam and no we are not including recent figures limited to Saudi Arabia. Name a Salafi equivalent of Salahudeen al Ayyubi or Qadi Iyadh.

The history of Islam from the time of the Prophet ﷺ until now is a history of the Sunnis with their three schools of aqeedah. Before 1700s, there's literally two characters in the entire history of Islam with the vast lands of the Muslims + Ibn Taymiyyah who recanted from the incorrect views AND who was a Qadiri Sufi! Salafis don't have isnad or a continuous legacy from the time of the Prophet ﷺ.

The Salafi mindset is actually derogatory and based on a bad opinion of the divine promise to protect Islam and preserve it because they believe that the vast majority of the Ummah until they came was upon misguidance!

You made the claim... And now your saying I need to bring proof that the majority are not Ash'ari? Do you realize how stupid that sounds?

 

[Haragwaafi]

This dumb thread like since when did the Ahlu Sunnah wa J'ama didn't include Shafi'i Maliki Hanafi and Hanabli "Salafists" in there ? You think the 4 Imams weren't Atharis when they part that school ? please before any of you make religious topics like this one you better have a better knowledge about it.

 

[Haragwaafi]

Even though I would consider myself to be mostly Atheri I tend to lean into Ashari in terms of Allah's characters (Sifaat). Despite Atheris denying any assimilation of Allah to his creatures (Tashbeh) I feel like they're unintentionally doing it by authenticating controversial Hadith that many scholars reject which is the Prophet pbuh seeing his God in a form of a beardless young man and stating that Allah has eyes, hands, a face and legs physically and not metaphorically as Ashari believe in.

Do you deny of what Allah swt has attributed to himself in his book? and Atharis are the people who have knowledge about the hadiths not other schools who mostly ignored it

 

[Haragwaafi]

I had no idea most are ashari. I grew up with learning athari aqeedah. Idk enough to make a judgement.

Majority of muslims don't belong or subscribe to that deviant greek philosophical school

Answer this question without thinking too much about it, Where's Allah swt?

 

[Mudug_gyal]

Majority of muslims don't belong or subscribe to that deviant greek philosophical school

Answer this question without thinking too much about it, Where's Allah swt?

فوق العرش

 

[daljirkadahsoon]

Majority of muslims don't belong or subscribe to that deviant greek philosophical school

Answer this question without thinking too much about it, Where's Allah swt?

The position of Ahlus Sunnah is that Allah is not bound by time and space therefore this question is an impossible question. Allah does not have a location!

 

[daljirkadahsoon]

You made the claim... And now your saying I need to bring proof that the majority are not Ash'ari? Do you realize how stupid that sounds?

You haven't answered a single question since the thread started from either me or Garaad or any of the other people that commented. All you do is deflect and make irrelevant statements.

 

[Haragwaafi]

The position of Ahlus Sunnah is that Allah is not bound by time and space therefore this question is an impossible question. Allah does not have a location!

You're not part of Ahlu Sunnah if you have a deviant beliefs as what you have said has never been said by the salaf as sahleh.

Here's what our Imam Abu Hanifa said about Allah's location:

قال أبو حنيفة: من قال: لا أعرف ربي في السماء أو في الأرض فقد كفر، وكذا من قال: إنه على العرش ولا أدري العرش أفي السماء أو في الأرض؟ والله تعالى يُدْعى من أعلى لا من أسفل ".


Whoever says: I do not know my Lord in heaven or on earth has disbelieved, and the same applies to whoever says: He is on the Throne and I do not know whether the Throne is in heaven or on earth? God Almighty is called from above, not from below.”

I dare you to quote me the positions of our Imams or any of the salaf as saleh that agrees with you deviant heretic views.

 

[daljirkadahsoon]

You're not part of Ahlu Sunnah if you have a deviant beliefs as what you have said has never been said by the salaf as sahleh.

Here's what our Imam Abu Hanifa said about Allah's location:

قال أبو حنيفة: من قال: لا أعرف ربي في السماء أو في الأرض فقد كفر، وكذا من قال: إنه على العرش ولا أدري العرش أفي السماء أو في الأرض؟ والله تعالى يُدْعى من أعلى لا من أسفل ".


Whoever says: I do not know my Lord in heaven or on earth has disbelieved, and the same applies to whoever says: He is on the Throne and I do not know whether the Throne is in heaven or on earth? God Almighty is called from above, not from below.”

I dare you to quote me the positions of our Imams or any of the salaf as saleh that agrees with you deviant heretic views.

Whoever you got that quote has slandered our Imam Abu Hanifa.

This is really not a complex or difficult topic.

Common sense would tell you that as Allah existed before anything else did including the very notion of a universe, time or space then he CANNOT be in it! This is Aqeedah 101 or will you now say like certain gaals that the universe always existed?? The idea you are arguing for is the Christian idea of God. We do not believe that Allah has a body or form or is bound by a location.

In the Qur'an, Allah swt is also described as being closer to us than our jugular vein. Will your preachers now claim that Allah surrounds all of our necks wal iyadubillah. USE YOUR BRAIN.

We were Muslim before Muhammad Abdul Wahhab and we are still Muslim after alhamdulilah I will not take my aqeedah or deen from a Khariji fool who killed countless innocents for no reason and claimed that he was ridding a land of shirk and kufr that is MUSLIM.

IBN HAJAR AL-HAYTAMI IN HIS BOOK: AL-MINHAJ AL-QAWIM SAID:

“KNOW THAT AL-QARAFI & OTHERS HAVE NARRATED FROM ASH-SHAAFI’I, MALIK, AHMAD & ABU HANIFAH(RA) THAT THOSE WHO SAY [ABOUT ALLAH] THAT HE IS IN A DIRECTION OR THAT HE HAS A BODY, HAVE COMMITTED BLASPHEMY (AL-QAA’ILEEN BI J-JIHAT WA T-TAJSIM), AND THEY [I.E. THESE SCHOLARS] WERE RIGHT IN SAYING SO.”

Ibn al-Jawzi also said: "Some people lied when they heard about the Sifat (attributes of Allah) and interpreted them according to the physical meanings, such as those who claimed that Allah literally descends from the sky and moves from one place to another. This is an ill understanding, because the one who moves would be from a place to a place, and that necessitates that the place is bigger than him and that requires movement, and all of that is impossible to be attributed to Allah the Exalted".

Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal said: "Whoever says that Allah is abody unlike the bodies have blasphemed (committed kufur)". This is because Allah is not a body, and is not like the creations in anyway.

At-Tahawi said in his book at-Tahawiyyah: "Allah is supremely clear of all boundaries, extremes, sides, organs and instruments. The six directions do NOT contain Him--these are attributed to all created things.

n his book, Ihya Ulum ad-Din, Imam al-Ghazali said:


"... places do not contain Allah, nor do the directions, earth, or heavens.He is attributed with an "istiwa'" over al-^arsh as He said in the Qur'an--with the meaning that He willed--and not as what people may delude. It is an istiwa' which is clear of touching, resting, holding, moving and containment. Al-^arsh does not carry Him, but rather al-^arsh and those that carry al-^arsh are all carried by Allah with His Power and are subjugated to Him. He is above al-^arsh and above the heavens and above everything--in status-- an aboveness that does not give Him proximity to al-^arsh or the heavens as it does not give Him farness from earth. He is higher in status than everything: higher in status than al-^arsh and the heavens, as He is higher in status than earth and the rest of the creation."

Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani said in his explanation of Sahih al-Bukhary (Fath al-Bari): "Attributing aboveness (Fawqiyah) to Allah is a matter of status, and the impossibility lies in it being physical." This means Allah exists without a place and is clear from being in a direction or place. And the "Fawqiyah" or aboveness when attributed to Allah it refers to abovness of status and greatness of Allah, the exalted. He is the creator Subhanahu Wa Ta^ala that does not need any of the creations in any way.

Ibn Hajar al-Haitami also confirmed in his book "al-Fatawa al-Hadithiyah" page 144 that Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal clears Allah from being a body, or having a limit, size, shape, place or direction. He said: "The creed of the Imam of Ahlus Sunna Ahmad Bin Hanbal (Radiallahu Anhu) complies with the creed of Ahlus-Sunnah Wal-Jama^ah in exceptionally clearing Allah completely from what the ungrateful wrongdoers did by attributing to Allah non befitting attributes such the direction and body and other attributes of imperfection, in fact any attribute that does not have complete perfection. And what became popular between the ignorant people who falsely claim to follow this great Imam(Ahmad bin Hanbal) al-Mujtahid, that he attributed the direction to Allah or such, this is a lie and a false accusation to him".


وقال الشيخ شهاب الدين أحمد بن محمد المعروف بابن حجر الهيتمي الأشعري (974 )ها ما نصه (الفتاوى الحديثية (ص/ 144): "عقيدة إمام السُّنة أحمد بن حنبل رضي الله عنه موافقة لعقيدة أهل السنة والجماعة من المبالغة التامّة في تنزيه الله تعالى عما يقول الظالمون والجاحدون علوّا كبيرا من الجهة والجسمية وغيرهما من سائر سمات النقص، بل وعن كل وصف ليس فيه كمال مطلق، وما اشتهر بين جهلة المنسوبين إلى هذا الإمام الأعظم المجتهد من أنه قائل بشىء من الجهة أو نحوها فكذب وبهتان وافتراء عليه"ا.هـ

An-Nawawi and Al-Qađii ˆIyađ said they are not Muslims:
قوله صلى الله عليه و سلم ( فليكن أول ما تدعوهم إليه عبادة الله فإذا عرفوا الله فأخبرهم إلى آخره ) قال القاضي عياض رحمه الله هذا يدل على أنهم ليسوا بعارفين الله تعالى وهو مذهب حذاق المتكلمين في اليهود والنصارى أنهم غير عارفين الله تعالى وان كانوا يعبدونه ويظهرون معرفته لد لالة السمع عندهم على هذا وان كان العقل لا يمنع أن يعرف الله تعالى من كذب رسولا قال القاضي عياض رحمه الله ما عرف الله تعالى من شبهه وجسمه من اليهود أو اجاز عليه البداء أو أضاف إليه الولد منهم أو أضاف إليه الصاحبة والولد وأجاز الحلول عليه والانتقال والامتزاج من النصارى أو وصفه مما لا يليق به أو أضاف إليه الشريك والمعاند في خلقه من المجوس والثنوية فمعبودهم الذى عبدوه ليس هو الله وان سموه به اذ ليس موصوفا بصفات الاله الواجبة له فاذن ما عرفوا الله سبحانه فتحقق هذه النكتة واعتمد عليها وقد رأيت معناها لمتقدمى أشياخنا وبها قطع الكلام ابوعمران الفارسى بين عامة اهل القيروان عند تنازعهم في هذه المسألة هذا آخر كلام القاضي رحمه الله تعالى. (المنهاج شرح صحيح مسلم بن الحجاج , النووي , دار إحياء التراث العربي , 1392, 1 / 199-200)

 

[Garaad Awal]

فوق العرش

You believe in a Pagan-like God who has hands,shins & sits on a throne. Ahlul Sunnah are free from the ideological children of Ibn Abdulwahab