Pretty simple post here, can someone break it down to me who the people of Punt where (I mean like Cushitic migrations, who mainly desecends from them because I hear somalis and Eritreans are the biggest runner ups)? Possible loactions, teh gernealy history of it, I have heard about its association with the gash culture as well, but for the most part, my knowledge is about Cushitic history and migrations as well as the history of punt is pretty scattered, so if anyone can help me with understanding all they know about it, that'd be appreciated!
Who were the People of Punt?
- Thread starter Bior
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Simple answer: we don't know
Punt was literally 3000 years ago, modern countries didn't exist and the various ethnicities in the horn of Africa were either not existing as separate entities or quite different from today. We can only speculate about the geographic location of Punt which was according to most experts an area likely between modern day Ethiopia, northern Somalia and Djibouti. If this is the case my uneducated guess is that Puntities were likely the cushitic ancestors of modern day horn Africans
Punt was literally 3000 years ago, modern countries didn't exist and the various ethnicities in the horn of Africa were either not existing as separate entities or quite different from today. We can only speculate about the geographic location of Punt which was according to most experts an area likely between modern day Ethiopia, northern Somalia and Djibouti. If this is the case my uneducated guess is that Puntities were likely the cushitic ancestors of modern day horn Africans
Land of Punt
It seems likely that it was only located in Ethiopia/Eritrea and maybe Sudan
www.somalispot.com
There have been a few topics about it in the last year.
Punt allied with Nubia against Egypt at one point in time. So Punt was part of a wider fuzzy wuzzy network.
the puntites were situated between Maydh and stretched all the way down to the ancient environs of Hobyo, they’re the partial ancestors of the Majeerteen and clans local to the north eastern region of Somalia only. Not all Somalis descend from them or have connections to them. An ancient race of people no doubt.
they had port cities, they were on the silk route, and engaged in trade with places as far away as China and Indonesia.
they had port cities, they were on the silk route, and engaged in trade with places as far away as China and Indonesia.
Pretty sure Xaafuun = O’pone = Punt
The main commodities traded were frankincense and myrrh which is found the highest in Northeastern Somalia
isnt the Silk Road something that existed long after punt tho?
yeah I did hear that they helped the kerma kingdom in their raids against the Egyptians
Not Silk Road my mistake* that’s overland route in Asia, I mean Red Sea and Indian Ocean tradeisnt the Silk Road something that existed long after punt tho?
Most accurate answer of the bunch. There was no such thing as Somali, Oromo, Amhara etc, 4,000 years ago, which is why it's especially cringe when Somalis claim it as if we're the sole heirs to it.
Based on current academic research, the Land of Punt is most strongly correlated with the Gash Group Civilization, located in the southeastern Sudan and northern Eritrea region. Excavations at its capital, Mahal Teglinos, and nearby residential villages revealed architectural remains of large mud-brick buildings and the use of administrative devices, indicating the establishment of a centralized political system. This is the earliest state-level society in the Horn of Africa and the oldest established by a Cushitic people, aside from the A-Group and the Kerma Kingdom.
More info in this thread:
The Gash Group (ca. 3000-1400 BC) is the Land of Punt
The Gash Group is a neolithic culture situated in the Southeastern Sudan and Northern Eritrea region. The academic consensus based on the most recent archeological evidence is that this culture is the Land of Punt. Excavations at its capital of Mahal Teglinos revealed evidence of permanent...
www.somalispot.com
I remain skeptical. Very little archeological research that far back has been done in ethiopia and none at all in somalia. Punt was most famous of all for its incense. There's also the fact that it was a coastal region in which a person had to travel massive distances to reach.
It's also not that surprising when you remember that the indus valley civilization was trading with the horn of africa which was how it was able to acquire millet in the first place.
The alchemist
VIP
Simply put, variations of Cushites. It's geography stretched from southeastern Sudan along the coast, Eritrea, Djibouti and parts of Somaliland. Northern Ethiopia was only inhabited by Cushites during late-stage Punt when pottery changed, so that was never part of it.
It was more like an economic sub-globalized region that integrated pastoralist dominated trade and sea-connectivity, in connection with more adjacent sedentary farmers for produce.
It was more like an economic sub-globalized region that integrated pastoralist dominated trade and sea-connectivity, in connection with more adjacent sedentary farmers for produce.
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The Egyptians imported varieties of frankincense that grew only in Somalia, so the possibility of Punt stretching geographically as far south as northern Somalia isn't out of the question. However, there are specific reasons I remain convinced that the Gash Group Civilization, centered in northwestern Eritrea, was at the heart of Punt.
1. We know Punt was a state-level society based on Egyptian descriptions of meeting rulers there, who were distinct from those of Kerma. The only archaeological evidence we currently have of a nascent state in the Horn of Africa during that period comes from Eritrea, specifically the Gash Group.
2. We know that Kerma, during political or territorial disputes with Egypt, would routinely block the overland trade route to Punt. Cutting off this vital trade link forced Egypt to construct a seafaring fleet to reach Punt by sea as an alternative. This evidence firmly places Punt within Africa, and likely near enough to Kerma and Egypt to facilitate relatively easy direct trade.
3. Another key piece of evidence that cements my belief that Punt was in Eritrea is that, during an extensive military expedition by Kerma against Egypt, it allied with Punt and the Medjays to invade Egypt. This indicates that Punt was located close enough to Kerma and Egypt to actively participate in regional disputes and military campaigns.
Now, this is not to say definitively that the ancestors of Somalis had nothing to do with Punt or that it wasn't possible for Punt to have stretched as far south as northern Somalia. After all, the Gash Group Civilization was demographically composed of agro-pastoralists and located on a route that follows the southward migrations of Cushitic speakers, so a significant portion of the Horn of Africa's population, including Somalis, are likely direct descendants of the people who inhabited the region at the time.
Seeing how they extended the name ''barbar'' to stretch from Eastern Sudan all the way to Somalia and it was split between two Barbaria.
The word “Berber/Barbar” may not be from Greek but from an Ancient Egyptian ethnonym for the Puntites.
It has often been assumed that the appellation of the word Barbar/Berber designating proto-somalis originated with the ancient Greeks as a cognate of barbaros ("barbarian") because when spoken to, didn’t understand the language. However, the first mention of the term actually dates earlier to...
www.somalispot.com
I suspect it was the same with Punt as an umbrella term, that they were talking about different regions when they mentioned it like what @The alchemist said that it was part of a connected cultural geography and mode of life , i.e ''cushitic speakers'' who were agro-pastoral mixed economic traders.
It's not just the frankincense found in Somalia. In Queen Hashepsuts expedition apart from describing a land inhabited by a pastoral -and/or agro-pastoral cattle herders. It also described and depicted a coastal landscape that is very much the same as northern-eastern Somalia
''Her temple relief show that each of the 31 heave incense trees required 4-6 men to transport them to the carge ships, or 124 to 186 Egyptian and Puntite carriers in total. Since there were around 150 crewmen on the expedition five vessels (30 ship), this would mean that ''the frankincense terraces of punt'' had to have been situated near the seashore''
Because what they reference punt in the temple relief is that of a coastal seashore next to a river with an adjacent Mountain where there is ''Terraces of frankincense'' grows which other say this is a description that corresponds with the Northern Somali literol.
The last sentence make sense to me, that Somalia probably represented a southern boundary and eastern Sudan/Eritrea probably represented a northern one.
Also the fact that they differentiated werew (chieftain), compared to hekaw(rulers) in nubia might point to them being decentralized and a heterarchy seperated into different trading towns ruled by oligarchs i.e wealthy merchant elders, as opposed to the hierarchical/centralized nature of the Gash group or maybe gash was a heterarchy as well.
Btw what do you think of this? What do you make of this related by Pliny the Elder? does it lack merit? because i don't see it brought up
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I believe it was the later Greco-Romans who extrapolated the use of 'Barbar' to the Somali coast as an umbrella term, given that the majority of the African Red Sea coast was inhabited by Cushitic agro-pastoralists. Unfortunately, I don't think we have direct evidence that the Egyptians themselves extended its use all the way to Somalia.
The only reason I'm hesitant to say that Queen Hatshepsut's expedition reached Somalia is that the landscape described in the records could also apply to the Eritrean coast, which is similarly mountainous and has frankincense growing nearby. If there is evidence showing that her expedition collected a species of frankincense that doesn't grow in Eritrea, that would be definitive enough.It's not just the frankincense found in Somalia. In Queen Hashepsuts expedition apart from describing a land inhabited by a pastoral -and/or agro-pastoral cattle herders. It also described and depicted a coastal landscape that is very much the same as northern-eastern Somalia
''Her temple relief show that each of the 31 heave incense trees required 4-6 men to transport them to the carge ships, or 124 to 186 Egyptian and Puntite carriers in total. Since there were around 150 crewmen on the expedition five vessels (30 ship), this would mean that ''the frankincense terraces of punt'' had to have been situated near the seashore''
Because what they reference punt in the temple relief is that of a coastal seashore next to a river with an adjacent Mountain where there is ''Terraces of frankincense'' grows which other say this is a description that corresponds with the Northern Somali literol.
The last sentence make sense to me, that Somalia probably represented a southern boundary and eastern Sudan/Eritrea probably represented a northern one.
Btw what do you think of this? What do you make of this related by Pliny the Elder? does it lack merit? because i don't see it brought up
Pliny the Elder was a man who wrote an encyclopedia of the known world—quite a character, lowkey. That's a very interesting passage; I'll have to look further into it. Coincidentally, I watched a lighthearted YouTube video about his work just a couple of days ago.
wait, idk the geography like that but is it not possible that the Frankincense could be from Eritrea or any of there other suggested regions like eastern sudan where they also have coast?Seeing how they extended the name ''barbar'' to stretch from Eastern Sudan all the way to Somalia and it was split between two Barbaria.
The word “Berber/Barbar” may not be from Greek but from an Ancient Egyptian ethnonym for the Puntites.
It has often been assumed that the appellation of the word Barbar/Berber designating proto-somalis originated with the ancient Greeks as a cognate of barbaros ("barbarian") because when spoken to, didn’t understand the language. However, the first mention of the term actually dates earlier to...www.somalispot.com
I suspect it was the same with Punt as an umbrella term, that they were talking about different regions when they mentioned it like what @The alchemist said that it was part of a connected cultural geography and mode of life , i.e ''cushitic speakers'' who were agro-pastoral mixed economic traders.
It's not just the frankincense found in Somalia. In Queen Hashepsuts expedition apart from describing a land inhabited by a pastoral -and/or agro-pastoral cattle herders. It also described and depicted a coastal landscape that is very much the same as northern-eastern Somalia
''Her temple relief show that each of the 31 heave incense trees required 4-6 men to transport them to the carge ships, or 124 to 186 Egyptian and Puntite carriers in total. Since there were around 150 crewmen on the expedition five vessels (30 ship), this would mean that ''the frankincense terraces of punt'' had to have been situated near the seashore''
Because what they reference punt in the temple relief is that of a coastal seashore next to a river with an adjacent Mountain where there is ''Terraces of frankincense'' grows which other say this is a description that corresponds with the Northern Somali literol.
The last sentence make sense to me, that Somalia probably represented a southern boundary and eastern Sudan/Eritrea probably represented a northern one.
Also the fact that they differentiated werew (chieftain), compared to hekaw(rulers) in nubia might point to them being decentralized and a heterarchy seperated into different trading towns ruled by oligarchs i.e wealthy merchant elders, as opposed to the hierarchical/centralized nature of the Gash group or maybe gash was a heterarchy as well.
Btw what do you think of this? What do you make of this related by Pliny the Elder? does it lack merit? because i don't see it brought up
tbf I do think I remember reading in an encyclopedia about ancient erupt that they found Egyptian beads near the juba river in Somalia. so ig if you dont just look at gash group northern Somali could be plausible. or at least ancestors of somalis being somewhat associated. https://archive.org/details/atlasofancienteg00bain/page/20/mode/2up?q=juba&view=theater
