BebsiBolice
Suicidal men adore me.
I want Muslims and non Muslims to explain. I want facts and scriptures from the Quran but also theories on way.
Why does Islam ban nationalism?
- Thread starter BebsiBolice
- Start date
- Status
Sis with all due respect but you don't even believe in the divine laws of Allah the shariah so what's the point of this thread again?
Barni's logic, I don't believe in the shariah only terrorists believe in it, makes a thread 'Why is nationalism forbidden in Islam' 
BebsiBolice
Suicidal men adore me.
Have a civil discussion you wahabbi
Shaykh ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him) was asked:
What is your opinion on the call for nationalism which believes that belonging to a race or language takes precedence over belonging to a religion, and these groups claim that they do not oppose religion, but they give nationalism precedence over it. What is your opinion of this call?
He replied:
This is a jaahili call, and it is not permissible to join it or encourage those who promote it. Rather it must be put an end to, because Islamic sharee’ah opposes it and rejects it. We should refute their specious arguments and claims with that which makes the truth clear to those who seek it. Islam is the only thing that preserved Arabness in language, literature and culture. Rejecting Islam leads to destroying Arabness in language, literature and culture. Hence the daa’iyahs should strive their utmost to call people to Islam just as the colonialists are striving their utmost to destroy it.
It is a well known principle of Islam, that no Muslim has any excuse for not knowing, that the call for Arab nationalism or any other kind of nationalism, is a false call, grave error and blatant evil; it is a bad jaahili attitude and a plot against Islam and its followers. That is due to many reasons that we have explained in a separate book entitled Naqd al-Qawmiyyah al-‘Arabiyyah ‘ala Daw’ al-Islam wa’l-Waaqi’(Criticism of Arab Nationalism in the Light of Islam and Reality).
Fataawa al-Shaykh Ibn Baaz (4/173).
Source: https://islamqa.info/en/97732
Additionally, before Islam the tribes in arabia used to fight one another and defend their own - not out of haq/ because they truly deserved to be defended - but simply because they belonged to their tribe. This is clearly an ignorant way to behave as if everybody behaves in this manner there will be much unnecessary bloodshed in the land. Islam united the people and encouraged justice - if you are going to fight for something, do it because it is haq - not over some nonsense like race/nationalism/tribe etc. If we all did that where would the violence end?
What is your opinion on the call for nationalism which believes that belonging to a race or language takes precedence over belonging to a religion, and these groups claim that they do not oppose religion, but they give nationalism precedence over it. What is your opinion of this call?
He replied:
This is a jaahili call, and it is not permissible to join it or encourage those who promote it. Rather it must be put an end to, because Islamic sharee’ah opposes it and rejects it. We should refute their specious arguments and claims with that which makes the truth clear to those who seek it. Islam is the only thing that preserved Arabness in language, literature and culture. Rejecting Islam leads to destroying Arabness in language, literature and culture. Hence the daa’iyahs should strive their utmost to call people to Islam just as the colonialists are striving their utmost to destroy it.
It is a well known principle of Islam, that no Muslim has any excuse for not knowing, that the call for Arab nationalism or any other kind of nationalism, is a false call, grave error and blatant evil; it is a bad jaahili attitude and a plot against Islam and its followers. That is due to many reasons that we have explained in a separate book entitled Naqd al-Qawmiyyah al-‘Arabiyyah ‘ala Daw’ al-Islam wa’l-Waaqi’(Criticism of Arab Nationalism in the Light of Islam and Reality).
Fataawa al-Shaykh Ibn Baaz (4/173).
Source: https://islamqa.info/en/97732
Additionally, before Islam the tribes in arabia used to fight one another and defend their own - not out of haq/ because they truly deserved to be defended - but simply because they belonged to their tribe. This is clearly an ignorant way to behave as if everybody behaves in this manner there will be much unnecessary bloodshed in the land. Islam united the people and encouraged justice - if you are going to fight for something, do it because it is haq - not over some nonsense like race/nationalism/tribe etc. If we all did that where would the violence end?
Islam never banned nationalism, prophet Mohamed said about city of Mecca his birth place “O Allah (SWT), You have brought me out of Your most beloved city."
It is ok to love your country
BebsiBolice
Suicidal men adore me.
@ChickenOriental so culture, tradition, attire, a strong ethnically identity is not allowed because it supposedly competes with the notion of Islam?
It doesn't make any sense. If the only culture is the Arab one or the Muslim one than perhaps borders are not needed and we shouldn't identity with our ethnicity? Am I getting this right?
It doesn't make any sense. If the only culture is the Arab one or the Muslim one than perhaps borders are not needed and we shouldn't identity with our ethnicity? Am I getting this right?
BebsiBolice
Suicidal men adore me.
Aren't people confusing the meaning tho? Isn't it tribalism that is banned? I have a hard time being fine with erasing culture and cultural belonging and replacing it with Islam. Where is the diversity?
because nationalism doesn't work in a caliphate. just look at what happened to the ottomans. the Arabs wanted their own land and what not so they sold out to the brits.
Not quite, sis. As many people on this forum have pointed out, Islam is not calling for the abolition of culture, language etc. Merely the parts of our culture which may go against the principles of Islam (e.g. forcing women to get married to men they do not want in some Asian cultures) and also the arrogance that often accompanies this kind of national pride.
Remember the hadith narrated from ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Mas’ood that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “No one who has an atom’s-weight of arrogance in his heart will enter Paradise.” [narrated by Muslim, 91]
And our differences are not a bad thing - this is something that was given to us by Allah:
"O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted." [Al-Hujurat 49:13]
Pay attention though to the reminder that the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. This is the only superiority in Islam - superiority in piety.
When we are happy about our roots we should strike a balance and fear Allah so that we do not become prideful and think ourselves superior. This would be to follow in the footsteps of Iblees who said: "I am better than he (Adam 'aleyhi salaam): You created me from fire and him from clay."
Islam doesn't ban culture and literature. The walls built around the Grand Mosque in Mecca were designed and built by Turks as were the calligraphies over the Kaabah. Strategies of war during the early periods of Islam were devised by Muslim Persians. The people who taught Mathematics to the Arabs were Indians and Persians too. Oh and most importantly, Islam did not conquer countries and kill off the locals. They were assimilated and most locals retained their positions.
Compare that to colonialism, people were massacred, language and culture forced down their throats, their farms taken off them etc
Compare that to colonialism, people were massacred, language and culture forced down their throats, their farms taken off them etc
This myth that Salafis are out to erase all culture and make us all some gigantic monolith is just that...a myth. Yeah, there are some Salafis who are very anti anything cultural but that is because of bad experiences (e.g. of people mixing culture and Islam) or simply not really having a culture (e.g. for some reverts). Islam does not ban culture if that is what you mean by 'nationalism'.
Did it occur to you that maybe he said that because of the holiest mosque being in Makkah? Sheesh it's not rocket science.
BebsiBolice
Suicidal men adore me.
But why is nationalism haram. What's so dangerous about national pride? This is what I have a hard time understanding. Nationalism doesn't necessarily mean feeling superior if that's what people believe then they are clearly looking at it from a western perspective.
BebsiBolice
Suicidal men adore me.
But doesn't Islam say just celebrate holidays that are deemed Sunnah?
I'm just thinking from somalias perspective. When my mother was young she used to celebrate some holidays that don't exist anymore. People in my generation don't even know about these holidays and if you ask the elders they'll say we will not celebrate it because it's not Sunnah.
Said the same thing about medina
I
Arab Muslims who spearheaded the Muslim
caliphates did actually force native people they have conquered out of their land's. When arab Muslim armies defeat others, for example north Africa arabs tribes would move in and settle. They have also forced the natives to pay jiziya taxation.
Arab Muslims who spearheaded the Muslim
caliphates did actually force native people they have conquered out of their land's. When arab Muslim armies defeat others, for example north Africa arabs tribes would move in and settle. They have also forced the natives to pay jiziya taxation.
Perhaps we need to define exactly what we mean by 'nationalism'. When I hear the word and generally when it is warned against by the scholars it is about pride but more so placing your allegiance to your nation above your allegiance to Islam.
In other words would you back someone just because they belonged to your nation/tribe/race even if they were doing something extremely unjust and/or straight up unislamic? If the answer is yes, then this is nationalism and what the scholars warned against. You should fight only for Haq not for the sake of your nation's unislamic agendas.
go read up on the ottoman empire and its downfall, Hell go read up on any empire....the main reason they fall is nationalism. one major concept in Islam is the caliphate.......no way would that work with nationalism. case in point when the Arabs betrayed the ottomans and worked with the brits in ww1 so they can get their own countries.
- Status
