Why Iblees isn't as evil...
- Thread starter Jujuman
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I mean, he did give us cars and smartphones so maybe he's not that bad
No he never. Hard human mental and physical labour is what got us that.
Allah has laws, you break it, he can do whatever he wants to you.
It is funny how in society's laws, you'll be arrested or executed for transgressions, but God doing the same thing is looked at as strange.
If I ever make to jannah, I would request to see you godless beasts.
No they're not divine it's just the law of 7th Century Arab merchant later turned warlord.
"If I ever make to jannah, I would request to see you godless beasts"
You're telling this to people who don't believe in your warped sadomasochistic fantasies. Doesn't bother us in the slightest.
Ferrari
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Yah because your opinion trumps facts.
You are more inclined to believe everything you see in the universe coming from a random big bang that spontaneously happened but the idea of a God making everything sounds stupid?
You've just thrown verses of scripture at me
You made 4 claims did you not?
1) Mentally torturing Nabi Ibraahiim (عليه السّلام)
Allah did not create us except to Worship him, this was one of the trials which Allah used to test him
2) Boasting about destroying whole civilisations
These were people who transgressed and were warned multiple times
3)Ordering Khadar to slaughter a child child
Refer to No. 1
4) And finally we come to the most absurd claim: That Shaytaan is good or (as implied by you) better than God
Allah says "Certainly, Shaytaan is a manifest Enemy to you"
How awfully convenient.
When it suits you use the Quran to make the devil seem better than God, using your own morals as a judge. At other times, however, you conveniently discredit the whole thing.
If you own the key to life and set up all the amenities necessary for that life to thrive, you engineered all things visible and nonvisible, then some of your creations choose to go against your expectations, and you let them live and continue to thrive, they insult you on a daily basis, mock your message and those who believe in it, that you let those vermin you could squash effortlessly enrich themselves to their heart's content and you offer them chances to see things differently, for sure, you would be labeled most merciful. Allah deserves best example and I don't mean to degrade the almighty in the parable I have written above, but you get the idea of how his mercy is what enables you to question him while you breath his air necessary for your blood stream to get rich in oxygen and you live on to be this mocking creature of his.
Logic would have us question the "Who" behind what we see in our everyday life. No one in his right mind would accept my message self typed without my action, yet that is what atheism asks us to do, have a leap of faith in the illogical.
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This thread was a tongue in cheek one in nature I don't believe Satan or Allah actually exist
The difference is that you used quotes and treated them like they're reality and actually facts so like I stated in my previous comment; quoting scripture as an factual, authoritative document will immediately switch me off.
I can't use verses, yet you can use certain elements of Islam, such as the story of Ibraahiim (عليه السلام) And the story of Khadar and the stories of Ahlu Madyan, Qawmu Nuux, Qawmu Huud, and Qawmu Luut to twist the Quran to depict Allah as evil and Ibliis as good. Sound fair to you?
Wow this is rich
first of all, my Atheism isn't an active claim of of knowledge that God doesn't exist it's merely the default position I hold because nobody has provided credible evidence there is a Omnipotent, Omniscient being. If such evidence does appear to reveal itself I'll be more than willing to drop the Atheist title.
That said, even if you can prove via evidence that such a Deity exists you'd then have to prove that such a being is Allah and not some other God and finally you'd have to provide evidence Allah remained in contact with a 7th Century Arab for the best part of 23 years.
I don't you can provide evidence for the first part let alone the second and third.
I can depict him as an evil fictional character yes, just as the Joker in Batman is or Kefka in Final Fantasy.
Wow this is rich
first of all, my Atheism isn't an active claim of of knowledge that God doesn't exist it's merely the default position I hold because nobody has provided credible evidence there is a Omnipotent, Omniscient being. If such evidence does appear to reveal itself I'll be more than willing to drop the Atheist title.
That said, even if you can prove via evidence that such a Deity exists you'd then have to prove that such a being is Allah and not some other God and finally you'd have to provide evidence Allah remained in contact with a 7th Century Arab for the best part of 23 years.
I don't you can provide evidence for the first part let alone the second and third.
With our current scientific knowledge, limited as it is, what would you consider to be valid evidence of God's existence?
But I can't depict him as otherwise, using your same source?
Wow this is rich
first of all, my Atheism isn't an active claim of of knowledge that God doesn't exist it's merely the default position I hold because nobody has provided credible evidence there is a Omnipotent, Omniscient being. If such evidence does appear to reveal itself I'll be more than willing to drop the Atheist title.
That said, even if you can prove via evidence that such a Deity exists you'd then have to prove that such a being is Allah and not some other God and finally you'd have to provide evidence Allah remained in contact with a 7th Century Arab for the best part of 23 years.
I don't you can provide evidence for the first part let alone the second and third.
If you love reason and don't shy away from taking up a challenge, you will find God presented in Islam as worthy challenge to look into. Why? Because God invites people like you to use their thinking to come to the conclusion of faith in him and blind faith is discouraged by that same God in Islam. Islam values Knowledge, and that you know what you are getting into. One has to meet two requirements to have faith in God: Knowledge of Him and Sincerity, without both having faith would be on Shaky grounds.
If you accept This reasoning, it will lead to you opening the Quran reading God directly addressing you and appealing to your intellect. God defines himself, God makes claims, God points out why you should have faith in him. God makes promises, God makes clear of consequences of freewill, that if you choose a path based on your free will, without someone forcing you, then you should accept a consequence of denial after you were presented with evidence from him(Quran) etc. God offers you to follow and exercise your free will as a human being granted to you by him. God says there is no compulsion in religion and the right course to take for humans is set apart from other paths they might follow that lead to confusion. I am sure someone like you who prides themselves in examining evidence would take up the challenge and sincerely look into the veracity of Almighty being there that pulls the strings behind everything. the whole point of a book, the Quran here, presented to Mankind is to examine what is in it. Because GOD presents himself in that book, it is for us all to decide whether the content can be from God or not.
Often times people engage in insults which takes away the chance of listening to each other respectfully, so in my humble attempt to get across a point to you, without looking down on you, and you not looking down on me, we might come to an agreement of some sort based on reasonable conversation henceforth.
You will also accept why Inacabdulqadir is using the Quran, because he can not debate with you about God without using the medium through which God presented himself.
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BTW Jujuman, for your benefit;
Allah is word/noun that denotes no sex i.e. It is sex Neutral word, nor male or female, the only word that befits a being who is not similar to his creatures. Also, the Allah in Islam, is the same God other human beings in History worshipped by calling him different names in their own languages. So, it is your own misunderstanding that Allah is different from what humans taught each other throughout history. The mode of worship, the method and the manners were different because of local cultures, but to humans, no matter when and where they lived, they always had a word for God.
The Jews call him "Elohim", "Yahweh". English speaking societies call him God, Somalis used to call him Waaq as reported, makes no difference what people call God.
God teaches that what Adam taught his children is no different from what Muslims practice as a religion and the differences between nations when it comes to practice of religion, and how they describe God almighty are due to man made efforts/errors and an introduction of corruption to the one religion mankind always had. Quran corrects these wrong introductions into the faiths of the past and steers people back to what should be the correct view of God.
That is why the word Islam means "Submission to the will of God" and has no association with race and ethnicity. Whereas many other faiths have race or a person attached to them due to corruption.
Moses was not a Jew but they tell us he was a Jew. Jesus was a Jew but Euros laid claim to him and painted him as White. You get my point.
Quran does not teach Allah is a new God. It is simple logic that God who is one can not be different to different groups of human beings. If God is one, and he created mankind, he sent information to inform them about him, then consistency is there you would agree.
Final post. I edited enough.
Allah is word/noun that denotes no sex i.e. It is sex Neutral word, nor male or female, the only word that befits a being who is not similar to his creatures. Also, the Allah in Islam, is the same God other human beings in History worshipped by calling him different names in their own languages. So, it is your own misunderstanding that Allah is different from what humans taught each other throughout history. The mode of worship, the method and the manners were different because of local cultures, but to humans, no matter when and where they lived, they always had a word for God.
The Jews call him "Elohim", "Yahweh". English speaking societies call him God, Somalis used to call him Waaq as reported, makes no difference what people call God.
God teaches that what Adam taught his children is no different from what Muslims practice as a religion and the differences between nations when it comes to practice of religion, and how they describe God almighty are due to man made efforts/errors and an introduction of corruption to the one religion mankind always had. Quran corrects these wrong introductions into the faiths of the past and steers people back to what should be the correct view of God.
That is why the word Islam means "Submission to the will of God" and has no association with race and ethnicity. Whereas many other faiths have race or a person attached to them due to corruption.
Moses was not a Jew but they tell us he was a Jew. Jesus was a Jew but Euros laid claim to him and painted him as White. You get my point.
Quran does not teach Allah is a new God. It is simple logic that God who is one can not be different to different groups of human beings. If God is one, and he created mankind, he sent information to inform them about him, then consistency is there you would agree.
Final post. I edited enough.
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You've made around about 15 separate claims alot of these claims of which you've derived from the Mushaf. None of which are backed up by evidence.
If I refuse to accept logical point made by a book because I happen to have preconceived notions about that book, then I fail myself and deny me an opportunity to gain some insight even if I could come to disagree with that logic later on.
Almost always, debating with someone like you leads to waste of time, but I thought perhaps you were a bit more classy and sincere.
- God doesn't force anyone to have faith, He invites, reasonable proposal, this reasoning is in the Mushaf doesn't make it wrong. It is actually appealing God to say he is not forcing you, just consider him for your own good and that Things could be different from the realities you see around you. It makes sense.
- God doesn't benefit from your submission to him, it is your acknowledgement of his existence and respect for your benefit If you do so on your own ... if this is in the Mushaf, it doesn't mean it is illogical dude.
See where this is going? All I said earlier were what God says about him and his religion, yes, these I gleaned from the Mushaf, and it is the reason and evidence I needed to have faith in him almighty. I believe in God and took a leap of faith in that, for the things said and claimed by the God of the Book. That is evidence I needed.
If you are not interested in any meaningful conversation, or have reasonable view about religion, then at least you can refrain from insults and be civil human being who values good conduct. You have no right by virtue of having no faith to behave as you wish, accountability is for all human beings saxib. Likewise, you are not more intelligent than others by virtue of being non-faithful or an atheist. To think that demonstrates one's low IQ and they embarrass themselves always when they depart from that false assumption about themselves.
Good day.
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btw, jujuman, you realize faith is called faith for a reason? at basic, God is handing you a book and wants you to decide if what is in there of information and claims can move you towards taking a faith in the info until you will be able to get certainty beyond any doubt.
The information in the book, contains things and claims only a being privy to first hand knowledge of how things happened can share or claim. It is information intended for readers to ponder over and that is why God said there is no compulsion in religion. You can't have faith if you are forced into it if you think about it. You can have faith in what you can reasonably agree with given something to look at, here, the book.
As for needing personal evidence beyond the Quran tailored for you, like meeting God almighty himself, there will be a time for it and it would be too late for such evidence to borne any value for you. You were not willing to take the leap of faith on the first information, so you would not get a break for being stubborn, you pay the price, fair and square.
It all makes sense bro. the fact that you are perfectly prepared for these kind of intellectual thinking by the creator points to the fact that he gave us the ability to think for ourselves, The test/challenge comes from who makes the leap and who doesn't when evidence is presented in the form of a book.
Remember no one is supposed to be forced into faith, you come to it on your own using your brains. If you conclude the opposite is for you, no faith, then it is meant to be that way. Just don't get any smart ideas that aren't smart
The information in the book, contains things and claims only a being privy to first hand knowledge of how things happened can share or claim. It is information intended for readers to ponder over and that is why God said there is no compulsion in religion. You can't have faith if you are forced into it if you think about it. You can have faith in what you can reasonably agree with given something to look at, here, the book.
As for needing personal evidence beyond the Quran tailored for you, like meeting God almighty himself, there will be a time for it and it would be too late for such evidence to borne any value for you. You were not willing to take the leap of faith on the first information, so you would not get a break for being stubborn, you pay the price, fair and square.
It all makes sense bro. the fact that you are perfectly prepared for these kind of intellectual thinking by the creator points to the fact that he gave us the ability to think for ourselves, The test/challenge comes from who makes the leap and who doesn't when evidence is presented in the form of a book.
Remember no one is supposed to be forced into faith, you come to it on your own using your brains. If you conclude the opposite is for you, no faith, then it is meant to be that way. Just don't get any smart ideas that aren't smart
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