Why is a women cheating on her husband worse than a man cheating on his wife?

[Angelina]

Not same in punishment in akhirah but same in being disgusting and having punishment in dunya, a person who commits zina with his neighbour will get the same dunya punishment as with a strange girl but there akhirah punishments are different

I'm talking about gender here. Allah clearly talks about the fornicating man and woman in the same manner.

 

[jemappelle]

I'm talking about gender here. Allah clearly talks about the fornicating man and woman in the same manner.

You see the issue of discussion here is that you are making an assumption that
1.Allah doesn't differentiate the severeness in sin of the man and women
2.Therefore they are of the exact same severity
but this conclusion does not follow

 

[Angelina]

No because the sin in question has different effects based o the gender therefore they will be treated differently as the sin is in different levels

Does Allah clearly mention that in the Quran?

A man fornicating with his neighbours wife is worse than with a strange girl, point is that depending on circumstance their is more harm in zina compared to others
Using this, ibnulqayyim RA extracted that it is worse for a wife to cheat on her husband than a man to cheat on his wife, using evidences from real life, and things Islam has valued, did you read what ibnul qayyim said?

Exactly, he extracted did. His opinion.
There are no Quran Ayahs or hadith that says that. He had to rely on extraction of scenerio that has nothing to do with gender.

1.Nisaab is never a light matter,it is one of 5 things the sharia aims to protect ,the rights of the child start from when the mother gets pregnant, therefore not knowing who the father is, or wrongfully attributing the father is hated to Allah, not only that, but the inheritance, keeping of family ties, and the rest, is also counted in this, not knowing the father Islamically plays a massive role
2.A women spoils her husbands bed
3.A women uses her husbands blessings on her, his money, his house his clothes and food he has provided her, and used to betray her husband
4.A women cheating on her husband is much more of a disgrace than a man cheating on his wife, this is a fact of life, Islamically a women is much more protected than a man in terms of modesty, she should seclude herself in her home as much as possible, wear garments which cover her entire body, a man has intense gheerah over his women, a women cheating on her husband is much more of a shameful thing to a women than it is too a man.
5.It is contradictory to a womens nature, a women is only ever allowed to be with one man at once, Islamically, whereas a man has the capability of having multiple wives. This means in and within itself it is harmful for a women to have multiple men she is in a relationship with, whereas it is not for a man, so when a man cheats on his wife, it is a disgusting sin, but when a women cheats, not only is it a disgusting sin, but she gets the extra sin of going against her nature, and doing something that she is never allowed to do, and harmful in and within itself

Again, are their ayahs or actual hadiths? No. Why does Allah compare the fornicating man with the fornicating woman? It doesn't just mention fornication, it also mentions genders, yet their is no mention of it being worse for one gender.

6.Men have much more gheerah over their women than women do over their men, Umar RA didn't even like his wife going to the mosque, but he couldn't forbid her from going, like wise the sahaba had instense gheerah for their wives because they were on the fitra, when the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wasalam entered Umar RAs palace in jannah, he turned away when he saw one of his wives, this is the most perfect man free of sickness in his heart or evil, in jannah where there is no wrong, and he remembered Umar RAs jealousy over his women so he turned away.

That has nothing to do with the point. That is male nature, we are talking about the sin and the punishment in the dunya and Akhira.

The point I am getting too, is that this same kind of gheerah is not the same for women, a women does not have as much protective jealousy over her men than a man for his women, this is men are allowed to marry multiple wives as it isn't completely against a womens nature to share her man, whereas it is completely against a mans nature to share his women

We are talking about adultery being a sin against Allah and not human relationships.

7. It is disgusting and unhygenic to have 2 men sleeping with the same women, any man thinking about this would be disgusted, a womens private parts are not the same as a mans, it is much harder to clean and it takes weeks for it to be fully cleaned naturally, a mans private parts are much cleaner as they can easily be cleaned and much harder to carry diseases, this is why men get less STDs than people sorry to say "receiving", because a mans private part is more easily cleaned, which is why its ok to have multiple women, on the contrary, a women with multiple men will be less clean and have mixed fluids of both men

We are talking about the sin and punishment aspect and it is the same.

8.When a women cheats on her husband, the husbands status in front of the people is much lower than if a man were to cheat on his wife.

It is haram and mAjor sin for both.

Thats just some that I thought of, both adultery for men and women are disgusting, but they are all of different levels, adultery with homosexuality is worse than straight adulery, adultery while your husband is on jihaad is worse than normal, adultery with neighbour is worse, adultery with your fathers wife(not your mum) is worse than with a strange women
So all zinaa is of different types, and from ibn qayyims hikma he saw that a womens adultery causes more harm than a mans

Yep, that was HIS view, but you can't convince me its worse for women. Allah would have made that clear. Allah already tells us that the fornicating man is for the fornicating woman. They're the same and deserving of each other.


BYE!

 

[jemappelle]

Does Allah clearly mention that in the Quran?

Allah doesn't need to mention something specifically in the Quran in order for us to extract a societal understanding on something.

An example, is rape ever mentioned in the Quran?
Is sexual abuse ever mentioned in the Quran?

 

[Angelina]

You see the issue of discussion here is that you are making an assumption that
1.Allah doesn't differentiate the severeness in sin of the man and women
2.Therefore they are of the exact same severity
but this conclusion does not follow

It says that the fornicating man is for the fornicating woman. They’re equally repulsive and they’re for each other.

Btw, I’m done with this topic. Nothing you say or do will change my opinion as it is the mere opinion of Ibn Qayyum that it is worse for women. The QurAn and Sunnah doesn’t indicate this whatsoever, so I don’t care.

You cannot tell me or predict if Allah will punish women more. There would have been stricter message in the Quran pertaining to women yet, we’re told that fornicating women and men are for each other.

so like I said, believe whatever you want to believe and I know what I believe.

 

[Angelina]

Allah doesn't need to mention something specifically in the Quran in order for us to extract a societal understanding on something.

Yes, in order for you to claim that this isn’t the opinion of Ibn Qayyim only, you’ll need evidence from Quran and SunnAh which you don’t.

An example, is rape ever mentioned in the Quran?
Is sexual abuse ever mentioned in the Quran?

What a silly comparison. Allah specially mentions adultery for both men and women. And do know what it is say? It says that they are for each other. He doesn’t just say believers which is general. He mentions MALE believes and FEMALE believers equally.

 

[jemappelle]

Exactly, he extracted did. His opinion.
There are no Quran Ayahs or hadith that says that. He had to rely on extraction of scenerio that has nothing to do with gender.

I don't think you understand how the scholars work, maybe I have to give you a deeper discussion on this.
Also you seem to have no problem mentioning child marriage should be disallowed using societal facts about girls being married young even though it never says in the Quran or sunnah that child marriage is wrong

Again, are their ayahs or actual hadiths? No. Why does Allah compare the fornicating man with the fornicating woman? It doesn't just mention fornication, it also mentions genders, yet their is no mention of it being worse for one gender.

Did you read any of what I said?
There are differing levels of severity of fornication, a man and women are compared in the Quran because they are both doing a disgusting sin, it does not mean every man and women are equal in sin when they commit zina, it varies depending on situation.

That has nothing to do with the point. That is male nature, we are talking about the sin and the punishment in the dunya and Akhira.

It is a point because the women is betraying and disobeying her husband, the fact the husband has gheerah over his women and so do her family members makes the betrayal worse

We are talking about the sin and punishment aspect and it is the same.

If we are talking about sin and punishment, then a women causing more harm to a man would mean she gets more punishment simply, also the fact what she is doing is more harmful to herself will give her more sin

Yep, that was HIS view, but you can't convince me its worse for women. Allah would have made that clear. Allah already tells us that the fornicating man is for the fornicating woman. They're the same and deserving of each other.

Allah did not say"every man and women who commits zina is equal in punishment"
That is my problem with what you are saying

 

[aduunka220]

both men and woman who cheat on their husband or wife. we both know what the punishemnt for them are regardless of gender.. no need to argue back and forth

 

[jemappelle]

What a silly comparison. Allah specially mentions adultery for both men and women. And do know what it is say? It says that they are for each other. He doesn’t just say believers which is general. He mentions MALE believes and FEMALE believers equally.

Ok angelina you are smart but right here your argument does not follow at all.
I think you need to understand how interpreting the Quran works, you cannot extrapolate your own stuff from ayahs
Here is a clear example for you
a women who commit zina with 500 men, is for a man who commit zina with 1 women, meaning they are for each other because they are both zaanis, but it is clear herre the women is much worse than the man as she commit zina 500 times, we could do it vice verse, but you see, they are different in sin, due to their actions, but they are still for each other.
so your argument fails

 

[Qeelbax]

Some men really want women to have a bigger punishment for fornicating than men.

 

[jemappelle]

@Angelina
a man who commits incest is worse than a man who commits zina with a strange girl,
yet it is never explicitly mentioned in Quran or sunnah that it is worse, in fact the hadd punishment is argued to be the same, and all zaanis are mentioned in the same group
so are you going to tell me a man who does incest has the same akhirah punishment as one who just does normal zina?

 

[aduunka220]

Some men really want women to have a bigger punishment for fornicating than men.

cant change the rules of God. both is death men or woman. ik it sounds weird to us who live in west but its the truth

 

[jemappelle]

Some men really want women to have a bigger punishment for fornicating than men.

It seems like all the women are allowing their arrogance to get over the facts here
if a women causes more harm by cheating on her husband, then she is going to get a bigger punishment
just like a qawm lut will get more punishment than someone who commits straight zina
do you understands?
fahimt?

 

[Qeelbax]

Ok angelina you are smart but right here your argument does not follow at all.
I think you need to understand how interpreting the Quran works, you cannot extrapolate your own stuff from ayahs
Here is a clear example for you
a women who commit zina with 500 men, is for a man who commit zina with 1 women, meaning they are for each other because they are both zaanis, but it is clear herre the women is much worse than the man as she commit zina 500 times, we could do it vice verse, but you see, they are different in sin, due to their actions, but they are still for each other.
so your argument fails

This is hilarious, you can flip that and say a man committing zina even once is like a woman committing zina 500 times. Which makes a male committing zina 500 times worse than female committing zina.
You need to be quiet saxib.


But at the end of the day, they're the same thing. stop this nonsense you goof.

 

[Angelina]

I don't think you understand how the scholars work, maybe I have to give you a deeper discussion on this.
Also you seem to have no problem mentioning child marriage should be disallowed using societal facts about girls being married young even though it never says in the Quran or sunnah that child marriage is wrong

It doesn’t and I can’t say it’s wrong in the context of those times as it used to happen and the Prophet s.a.w married Aisha.

Even scholars that say that it can be banned, wouldn’t ever say it’s morally wrong provided that the marriage is consummated.

Did you read any of what I said?
There are differing levels of severity of fornication, a man and women are compared in the Quran because they are both doing a disgusting sin, it does not mean every man and women are equal in sin when they commit zina, it varies depending on situation.

There are various Hadiths on adultery, yet the Prophet s.a.w never said it was worse for woman.

It is a point because the women is betraying and disobeying her husband, the fact the husband has gheerah over his women and so do her family members makes the betrayal worse

We are talking about worse being in Islam, as in disobeying Allah. If that was the case why is the had punishment the same? Why is there no references in Hadiths? Why does Allah mention both male and female believers equally with regards to fornication?

You can’t answer those questions whatsoever. So don’t expect me to take you seriously.

If we are talking about sin and punishment, then a women causing more harm to a man would mean she gets more punishment simply, also the fact what she is doing is more harmful to herself will give her more sin

If that was the case, during the time of the Prophet s.a.w he would have mentioned that and made the hadd punishment reflect that. But he didn’t. So again. 0 proof it’s worse for women in the context of the deen.

Allah did not say"every man and women who commits zina is equal in punishment"
That is my problem with what you are saying

Either way, in the dunya the punishment is the same, yet everything you mention about it being worse for women is dunya reasons. Since women’s adultery causes more issues in the Dunya why wasn’t the hadd punishment for women worse in the dunya?

Flawed logic. A man committing adultery is disobeying his lord and so is a woman who commits adultery. With regards to Allah, they’re the same. All the other issues you mentioned is about how a woman’s adultery causes more consequences in the Dunya, yet the hadd punishment tHat is met out is the complete same! I wonder why? Well maybe because it is the same?

 

[Qeelbax]

cant change the rules of God. both is death men or woman. ik it sounds weird to us who live in west but its the truth

It isn't death for fornicating but adultery. You get 100 lashes then a 1 year exile for fonicating. For adultery its 100 lashes then death.

 

[aduunka220]

It isn't death for fornicating but adultery.

yep

 

[Angelina]

It seems like all the women are allowing their arrogance to get over the facts here
if a women causes more harm by cheating on her husband, then she is going to get a bigger punishment
just like a qawm lut will get more punishment than someone who commits straight zina
do you understands?
fahimt?

Only one who is arrogant is you. Let’s be real a lot of men already believe that and fornicating and adultery is rampant amongst many men who believe it is okay for them, but worse for women. We will see where that takes them. All you’re doing is encouraging that.

I respect that you’re following the view of Ibn Qayyim. But don’t force me to and expect me to. He and a only a handful had that view. Hardly ever saw that commentary but from him.

 

[aduunka220]

It isn't death for fornicating but adultery. You get 100 lashes then a 1 year exile for fonicating. For adultery its 100 lashes then death.

thats why ppl need to get married quick and young.

 

[Angelina]

@Angelina
a man who commits incest is worse than a man who commits zina with a strange girl,

Incest is worse because it goes against human nature. Silly argument Wallahi. No one apart from a sicko has those feelings of against a Mahram.

Do you see how difficult it is to prove your argument that you have to resort to silly comparisons?

yet it is never explicitly mentioned in Quran or sunnah that it is worse, in fact the hadd punishment is argued to be the same, and all zaanis are mentioned in the same group
so are you going to tell me a man who does incest has the same akhirah punishment as one who just does normal zina?

My point is men and women are specially mentioned though. Whilst different scenarios weren’t mentioned, gender was most definitely mentioned. That is why your argument falls apart.