Why we need a secular constitution

[World]

How could Hassan and hussein be better than some of the companions of the prophet like cumar & abubakr who were promised paradise by Allah while they were still alive? How could you compare the companions of the prophet such as cumar ibn al khattab who spread Islamic caliphate and captured Persia Rome (Constantinople) & Jerusalem? What have Hassan and hussein do for Islam? Sure the messenger loved them but does that mean they're to be revered like as if they were prophets of Allah? Certainly not unlike shia we don't worship the prophets family we worship Allah

I didn't say Abu Bakr and Umar were less than Hassan and Hussein R.A but that they were the best out of the thousands of the Sahaba and were among the ten promised Jannah.

 

[Cognitivedissonance]

Yes, it's a test, and it's a test that you have failed. Disease is a test as well, but there's a cure for it. It's called medicine. The cure for civil war and violence is for everyone to stay out of the business of everyone else, which is what Allah says in numerous verses, and what secularism is all about. Lakum deenakum wa liya deen. That's secularism in a nutshell.

The command to rule according to what Allaah has revealed: “And so judge between them by what Allaah has revealed . . .” [aayah 49]

Warning against ruling by other than what Allaah has revealed: “. . . and follow not their vain desires . . .” [aayah 49]

Warning against compromising on any detail of Sharee‘ah, no matter how small: “. . . but beware of them lest they turn you far away from some of that which Allaah has sent down to you . . .” [aayah 49]

Forbidding seeking the ruling of jaahiliyyah, as is expressed in the rhetorical question “Do they then seek the judgement of (the Days of) Ignorance?” [aayah 50]

The statement that nobody is better than Allaah to judge: “. . . and who is better in judgement than Allaah for a people who have firm Faith?” [aayah 50]

The statement that whoever does not judge according to what Allaah revealed is a kaafir, a zaalim (oppressor or wrongdoer) and a faasiq (sinner), as Allaah says: “. . . And whoever does not judge by what Allaah has revealed, such are the kaafiroon.”[aayah 44]; “. . . And whoever does not judge by that which Allaah has revealed, such are the zaalimoon (polytheists and wrongdoers)” [aayah 45]; “. . . And whoever does not judge by what Allaah has revealed (then) such (people) are the faasiqoon(rebellious or disobedient).” [aayah 47].

The statement that it is obligatory for the Muslims to judge according to what Allaah has revealed, even if those who seek their judgement are not Muslim, as Allaah says: “. . . And if you judge, judge with justice between them. . .” [aayah 42]

Judging or ruling according to other than what Allaah has revealed is contrary to faith and Tawheed, which are Allaah’s rights. It may be counted as kufr akbar (greater kufr) or kufr asghar (lesser kufr) according to circumstances. Kufr akbar will make a person no longer a Muslim in cases such as the following:

If he issues laws and regulations other than those revealed by Allaah, because the right to issue laws belongs to Allaah alone, Who has no partner, and whoever “competes” with Him in a matter which is His alone is a mushrik,because Allaah says: “Or have they partners with Allaah (false gods), who have instituted for them a religion which Allaah has not allowed?” [al-Shooraa 42:21]

If the one who rules by other than that which Allaah has revealed denies the right of Allaah and His Prophet to rule, as is mentioned in Ibn ‘Abbaas’s comment on the aayah:“. . . And whoever does not judge by what Allaah has revealed, such are the kaafiroon.” [al-Maa’idah 5:44]. Ibn ‘Abbaas said: “Whoever rejects what Allaah has revealed is a kaafir.”

If he prefers the rule of falsehood to the rule of Allaah, whether this is in absolute terms or just in a few matters. Allaah says: “Do they then seek the judgement of (the Days of) Ignorance? And who is better in judgement than Allaah for a people who have firm Faith?” [al-Maa’idah 5:50]

If he regards the rule of Allaah and the rule of falsehood as equal. Allaah says: “. . . Then do not set up rivals unto Allaah (in worship) while you know (that He Alone has the right to be worshipped).” [al-Baqarah 2:22]

If he thinks that it is permissible to rule by something that contradicts the rule of Allaah and His Messenger, or he believes that it is not obligatory to rule according to what Allaah has revealed, or that the matter is optional. This is kufr which is contradictory to faith. Allaah revealed: “O Messenger! Let not those who hurry to fall into disbelief grieve you, of such who say: ‘We believe’ with their mouths but their hearts have no faith. And of the Jews are men who listen much and eagerly to lies - listen to others who have not come to you; they say, ‘If you are given this, take it, but if you are not given this, then beware!’ . . .” [al-Maa’idah 5:41]. He says: “Go to Muhammad (peace be upon him), and if he tells you that the ruling is lashes, accept it, but if he commands stoning, ignore what he says. Then Allaah revealed “. . . And whoever does not judge by what Allaah has revealed, such are the kaafiroon (disbelievers)” [al-Maa’idah 5:44].

If he does not rule according to what Allah has revealed out of stubbornness and arrogance, he is a kaafir and has left Islaam, even if he does not deny the rule of Allaah. Stubbornness and arrogance may mean negligence and turning away, as Allaah says: “Have you seen those (hypocrites) who claim that they believe in that which has been sent down to you, and that which was sent down before you, and they wish to go for judgement (in their disputes) to the Taaghoot (false judges, etc.) while they have been ordered to reject them. But Shaytaan wishes to lead them astray. And when it is said to them: ‘Come to what Allaah has sent down and to the Messenger,’ see they hypocrites turn away from you (Muhammad) with aversion.” [al-Nisaa’ 4:60-61]

 

[Cognitivedissonance]

I didn't say Abu Bakr and Umar were less than Hassan and Hussein R.A but that they were the best out of the thousands of the Sahaba and were among the ten promised Jannah.

They're not better than abu bakr ibn saddiq, cumar ibn al khattab, uthman ibn anfan and Cali ibn abi talib.

The man I'm debating is a shia who idolises men like Hassan and hussein so much so that Shias worship the family of our beloved prophet

 

[Coulombs law]

They're not better than abu bakr ibn saddiq, cumar ibn al khattab, uthman ibn anfan and Cali ibn abi talib.

The man I'm debating is a shia who idolises men like Hassan and hussein so much so that Shias worship the family of our beloved prophet

It's very dangerous to get into talks like this where it leads to undermining one sahabah in favour of another. One may have a higher status in the hereafter but that doesn't mean you can go forward with the comparison and say who's "better than who" as this leads to slandering of companions which isn't allowed.

Sahabahs are humans too, you are allowed to criticize their actions and decisions for example Muawiyhah and his whole feud against Ali ibn Abu Talib, but slandering isn't allowed and is not tolerable.

 

[ArchBishopofAtheism]

There's no country in the world today that implements the shariah in its totality.

So Saudi Arabia isn't "fully" implementing the sharia? That was a preview? Well I'll give it 1/5 and I don't want the full thing.

 

[Cognitivedissonance]

It's very dangerous to get into talks like this where it leads to undermining one sahabah in favour of another. One may have a higher status in the hereafter but that doesn't mean you can go forward with the comparison and say who's "better than who" as this leads to slandering of companions which isn't allowed.

Sahabahs are humans too, you are allowed to criticize their actions and decisions for example Muawiyhah and his whole feud against Ali ibn Abu Talib, but slandering isn't allowed and is not tolerable.

I slandered no one I was debating a shia the shia who worships Hassan and hussein.

I believe after the prophet Muhammad comes the four rightly guided caliphates abu bakr cumar ibn al khattab and Cali ibn abi talib.

 

[Cognitivedissonance]

So Saudi Arabia isn't "fully" implementing the sharia? That was a preview? Well I'll give it 1/5 and I don't want the full thing.

Saudia Arabia?

The same Saudia Arabia that is the Zionist state israels closest alley in the Middle East?

The same Saudia Arabia that has a us military base Dhahran base which is a Las Vegas style compound with clubs and pubs if Saudia Arabia implements shariah so does Israel

 

[Bidaar Wanagsan]

View attachment 31851

The command to rule according to what Allaah has revealed: “And so judge between them by what Allaah has revealed . . .” [aayah 49]

Warning against ruling by other than what Allaah has revealed: “. . . and follow not their vain desires . . .” [aayah 49]

Warning against compromising on any detail of Sharee‘ah, no matter how small: “. . . but beware of them lest they turn you far away from some of that which Allaah has sent down to you . . .” [aayah 49]

Forbidding seeking the ruling of jaahiliyyah, as is expressed in the rhetorical question “Do they then seek the judgement of (the Days of) Ignorance?” [aayah 50]

The statement that nobody is better than Allaah to judge: “. . . and who is better in judgement than Allaah for a people who have firm Faith?” [aayah 50]

The statement that whoever does not judge according to what Allaah revealed is a kaafir, a zaalim (oppressor or wrongdoer) and a faasiq (sinner), as Allaah says: “. . . And whoever does not judge by what Allaah has revealed, such are the kaafiroon.”[aayah 44]; “. . . And whoever does not judge by that which Allaah has revealed, such are the zaalimoon (polytheists and wrongdoers)” [aayah 45]; “. . . And whoever does not judge by what Allaah has revealed (then) such (people) are the faasiqoon(rebellious or disobedient).” [aayah 47].

The statement that it is obligatory for the Muslims to judge according to what Allaah has revealed, even if those who seek their judgement are not Muslim, as Allaah says: “. . . And if you judge, judge with justice between them. . .” [aayah 42]

Judging or ruling according to other than what Allaah has revealed is contrary to faith and Tawheed, which are Allaah’s rights. It may be counted as kufr akbar (greater kufr) or kufr asghar (lesser kufr) according to circumstances. Kufr akbar will make a person no longer a Muslim in cases such as the following:

If he issues laws and regulations other than those revealed by Allaah, because the right to issue laws belongs to Allaah alone, Who has no partner, and whoever “competes” with Him in a matter which is His alone is a mushrik,because Allaah says: “Or have they partners with Allaah (false gods), who have instituted for them a religion which Allaah has not allowed?” [al-Shooraa 42:21]

If the one who rules by other than that which Allaah has revealed denies the right of Allaah and His Prophet to rule, as is mentioned in Ibn ‘Abbaas’s comment on the aayah:“. . . And whoever does not judge by what Allaah has revealed, such are the kaafiroon.” [al-Maa’idah 5:44]. Ibn ‘Abbaas said: “Whoever rejects what Allaah has revealed is a kaafir.”

If he prefers the rule of falsehood to the rule of Allaah, whether this is in absolute terms or just in a few matters. Allaah says: “Do they then seek the judgement of (the Days of) Ignorance? And who is better in judgement than Allaah for a people who have firm Faith?” [al-Maa’idah 5:50]

If he regards the rule of Allaah and the rule of falsehood as equal. Allaah says: “. . . Then do not set up rivals unto Allaah (in worship) while you know (that He Alone has the right to be worshipped).” [al-Baqarah 2:22]

If he thinks that it is permissible to rule by something that contradicts the rule of Allaah and His Messenger, or he believes that it is not obligatory to rule according to what Allaah has revealed, or that the matter is optional. This is kufr which is contradictory to faith. Allaah revealed: “O Messenger! Let not those who hurry to fall into disbelief grieve you, of such who say: ‘We believe’ with their mouths but their hearts have no faith. And of the Jews are men who listen much and eagerly to lies - listen to others who have not come to you; they say, ‘If you are given this, take it, but if you are not given this, then beware!’ . . .” [al-Maa’idah 5:41]. He says: “Go to Muhammad (peace be upon him), and if he tells you that the ruling is lashes, accept it, but if he commands stoning, ignore what he says. Then Allaah revealed “. . . And whoever does not judge by what Allaah has revealed, such are the kaafiroon (disbelievers)” [al-Maa’idah 5:44].

If he does not rule according to what Allah has revealed out of stubbornness and arrogance, he is a kaafir and has left Islaam, even if he does not deny the rule of Allaah. Stubbornness and arrogance may mean negligence and turning away, as Allaah says: “Have you seen those (hypocrites) who claim that they believe in that which has been sent down to you, and that which was sent down before you, and they wish to go for judgement (in their disputes) to the Taaghoot (false judges, etc.) while they have been ordered to reject them. But Shaytaan wishes to lead them astray. And when it is said to them: ‘Come to what Allaah has sent down and to the Messenger,’ see they hypocrites turn away from you (Muhammad) with aversion.” [al-Nisaa’ 4:60-61]

I agree we should govern by Allah's shariah. The trouble is you want to govern by the Shaytan's shariah. Which is something altogether different. Allah's shariah is Laa ikraha fi deen. The Ottoman khilafa abolished religious discrimination. You claim to want an Islamic state, but you reject the system which the Islamic state ruled by. It gave freedom to ex-Muslims, freedom to Dhimmis, freedom to homos, freedom to slaves. Allah gave freedom to the shaytan. I bet you think Allah was wrong to give the shaytan freedom too. Well that's his shariah, mate. Islam doesn't force people to worship. It gives them freedom of worship. Force is what the Inquisition did. Your sheikh is Torquemada. Just be honest about your Christian doctrine and keep Islam out of it.

 

[Cognitivedissonance]

I agree we should govern by Allah's shariah. The trouble is you want to govern by the Shaytan's shariah. Which is something altogether different. Allah's shariah is Laa ikraha fi deen. The Ottoman khilafa abolished religious discrimination. You claim to want an Islamic state, but you reject the system which the Islamic state ruled by. It gave freedom to ex-Muslims, freedom to Dhimmis, freedom to homos, freedom to slaves. Allah gave freedom to the shaytan. I bet you think Allah was wrong to give the shaytan freedom too. Well that's his shariah, mate. Islam doesn't force people to worship. It gives them freedom of worship. Force is what the Inquisition did. Your sheikh is Torquemada. Just be honest about your Christian doctrine and keep Islam out of it.

You're a shia kaffir let's agree to disagree.

 

[mrcool]

Saudia Arabia?

The same Saudia Arabia that is the Zionist state israels closest alley in the Middle East?

The same Saudia Arabia that has a us military base Dhahran base which is a Las Vegas style compound with clubs and pubs if Saudia Arabia implements shariah so does Israel

So ur saying we somalis are much more extreme than SA. Weren't it the Saudis who brought Islam to Somalia?

 

[Cognitivedissonance]

So ur saying we somalis are much more extreme than SA. Weren't it the Saudis who brought Islam to Somalia?

Saudi royal family are Zionists do your due diligence search the history of modern Arabia research Lawrence of Arabia...

No it wasn't Saudia Arabia that spread Islam Saudi family has taken control with the help of the British just under 100 years ago.

 

[Abdalla]

I didn't say Abu Bakr and Umar were less than Hassan and Hussein R.A but that they were the best out of the thousands of the Sahaba and were among the ten promised Jannah.

You've said it twice that Hassan and Hussein were among the ten promised Jannah. They were not amongst the ten promised (Cashra mubashiriin)

There were more Sahabis than the ten who were promised Jannah during their lifetime. Prophet said to/about Bilal that fhe paradise yearns for him, but he was not among the ten. However the ten refer to a specific event and they were all promised.

 

[mrcool]

somalis don't know what they want confused bunch of people

 

[Bidaar Wanagsan]

You're a shia kaffir let's agree to disagree.

And you are my love child from a night of mut'ah debauchery. Don't make takfir on your daddy saxib. Just because your mother and I didn't give you the sibling you wanted is no reason to lie about our manhaj. We are ahlul Sunnah. Qaniiskaa tahay wase.

 

[World]

You've said it twice that Hassan and Hussein were among the ten promised Jannah. They were not amongst the ten promised (Cashra mubashiriin)

There were more Sahabis than the ten who were promised Jannah during their lifetime. Prophet said to/about Bilal that fhe paradise yearns for him, but he was not among the ten. However the ten refer to a specific event and they were all promised.

Oops my mistake.

 

[Bidaar Wanagsan]

This a great debate between two Muslim academics on whether we should have shariah or secularism:

 

[xisaabiye]

Bunch of s wanting to be gaal because nothing else worked

 

[Merchant of Mogadishu]

@Bidaar Wanagsan

Look Bidaar , it seems you missed my post on this thread.

An Islamic country must implement Sharia, not secularism if it wants to succeed. It has been shown time and time again that Islamic nations that implement laws that are against the laws of Allah are doomed to fail. Here is the example you missed, bidaar :


Look what happened before and after the Tanzimat reforms.

Before: Great Empire
Great Wealth
No disastrous defeats and loss of land
No decadence in society
Unrivalled in economic and military power



After: Weak Empire (called sick man of Europe)
Lost lots of lands in Europe and the Middle East to it's enemies
Decadence in society
Empire and Caliphate ended less than a hundred years later

Coincidence, I think not.

 

[Bidaar Wanagsan]

@Bidaar Wanagsan

Look Bidaar , it seems you missed my post on this thread.

An Islamic country must implement Sharia, not secularism if it wants to succeed. It has been shown time and time again that Islamic nations that implement laws that are against the laws of Allah are doomed to fail. Here is the example you missed, bidaar :


Look what happened before and after the Tanzimat reforms.

Before: Great Empire
Great Wealth
No disastrous defeats and loss of land
No decadence in society
Unrivalled in economic and military power



After: Weak Empire (called sick man of Europe)
Lost lots of lands in Europe and the Middle East to it's enemies
Decadence in society
Empire and Caliphate ended less than a hundred years later

Coincidence, I think not.

I'm sorry, I can't talk right now aboowe. I'm busy fucking your mother. Will get back to you later when she's done cleaning my jizz from her face.

 

[Merchant of Mogadishu]

I'm sorry, I can't talk right now aboowe. I'm busy fucking your mother. Will get back to you later when she's done cleaning my jizz from her face.

It is said, that wisdom comes with age. You on the hand, seemed to have lost intelligence with age. Which is why I very much believe that you are just a 15 year old kid whose been on the computer for far too long, you shall be exposed very soon. Your ry behaviour as well as your calls for every vice to be given the green light just stinks of barbarism. Your petty insult just confirms your childish behaviour, you cannot refute my points so you fall back on that.

Be gone, Bidaar .