Women feel jealousy too

[TekNiKo]

To dumb it down for people that may not necessarily get what I am saying.

The school of Islam that Somalis claim to follow asserts that it is beneficial that men should marry only one wife for numerous reasons.

I understand the problems with Madhabs etc. laakin for many Somalis they claim to follow Shafiici and use that schools interpretation of Islam.

Now the question is, are Somalis really practicing polygamy for religious reasons if their brand of Islam does not recommend it?

Also, is the polygamy practiced by Somalis Islamic according to the Shafiici madhab?

Bring your proof Imam Shaafici said this Ive never heard such an argument.

 

[Periplus]

Bring your proof Imam Shaafici said this Ive never heard such an argument.

Man, you can google this information. It is very readily available.

The Shafiici madhab is one of the most critical of out the four on polygamy. In that it believes one should remain with one wife if there is no apparent need to marry another.

It is said that Imam Shafiici stated: "that is more suitable that you may not be financially strained by numerous children" but I should state I have only seen this quote online and cannot verify it.

However, these scholars that followed Shafiici, have this about the madhab's opinion on polygamy, in that it is preferable for a muslim to be monogamous.

Al-Khatib Al-Shirbini (Shafiici scholar): "It is a Sunnah not to marry more than one wife if there is no apparent need" (Mughni Al-Muhtaaj)

Imam Ahmed ibn Naqib Al-Masri (Shafiici scholar): "It is fitter to confine oneself to one." (Umdatu Salik)

Imam Ghazali (Shafiici scholar): "It does not call for two wives, [since] plurality may render life miserable and disrupt the affairs of the home." (Kitab al Nikah, Ihya Uloom ud Din)

Imam Al-Mawradi (Shafiici scholar): "Ash-Shaafi’i is of the view that it is desirable to confine oneself to marrying only one although it is permissible for him to marry more than one. This is to avoid being unfair by being more inclined to some of them than others, or being unable to financially support them." (al-Hawi al-Kabir 11/417)

 

[AdoonkaAlle]

Firstly, I do not know why we are having this argument.

I said in my initial post that a scarcity of resources in many Somali polygamous marriages have caused tension and that one needs to be financially stable before considering a second wife.

This is completely in line with Shafiici madhab, but I will entertain your diatribe despite my politeness.

Where are you getting the statistics that majority of polygamous marriages in somalia have financial problems or that most men wanting to get a second wife etc are not financially stable ? You're just passing your opinions as facts and expect people to just accept it ?

In your initial post you said that polygamy ruined somalia because numerous men went and married younger women. You were implying that majority of these were financial unstable but most importantly they constituted a majority large enough to destroy our ethnicity. I then mentioned that the same issue is still prevalent in monogamous marriages where some men keeping on marrying and divorcing how come this doesn't destroy our nation or ethnicity ?

I claimed the unchecked practice of polygamy is the ruin of Somalia.

I always criticised how it is practiced, never the practice itself.

You only mentioned the unchecked practice only after i criticised your initial post. Your criticism of polygamy is based on the unsubstantiated claim that majority of men who practice it are unfit and this has ruined us. In your mind there's no benefits to it and this why you only have negative connotations towards it.

I blame polygamy in Somalia, not polygamy itself. There is a difference, let me explain.

I made the assertion that the polygamy done by Somalis ruins our community. I have never once stated that polygamy as a construct should be outlawed. In that, I never tried to make haram what is halal.

In fact, numerous times in this thread, I have stated either unchecked polygamy or polygamy in Somalia was ruining Somalia, not the underlying concept. In Somalia today, how are we able to make sure whether a man taking up a second wife is following the requirements set by Islam, including our interpretation of it?

Until you can provide an answer to this question then how am I supposed to be in blind deference to a practice in Somalia that may not even follow the requirements set by our deen.

Next.

Again projecting your opinions as facts, could you kindly back up your claim that polygamy practiced in somalia ruins us ? what is your claim based on other than bias ? are you a scholar, imam, etc to have in front martial records etc ?

What you're doing is generalising the instances of men failing to act according to islam in polygamous marriages and use it as proof. The same can be done to monogamous marriages and anyone can claim using their bias that monogamy practiced in somalia has ruined us.

Any unprejudiced individual will notice the fault in making such exaggerated claims.

Issues that happen in monogamous marriages are also horrible but issues that happen in unhealthy polygamous marriages are very fixable. In that, we need to place checks and balances on this practice and not let this issue be unchecked in our community.

This argument is similar to pro-gun activists defending assault weapons by saying that knifes kill too. Yes, that is very well true but there is an easily fixable situation in front of us that is due to people marrying multiple women without meeting pre-set criteria .

This leads me to my next point....

Look at how you just tracked back from your initial claim ? when the exact same issue happens in monogamous marriages it's horrible but it's only fixable with unhealthy polygamous marriages ? can i ask how come the issues aren't fixable in monogamous marriages, what stopping it ?

Most importantly how come the same problems despite occurring in both monogamous & polygamous marriages leads to our destruction only in polygamy ?

The Shafiici madhab is very clear on stating that it is sunnah not to marry more than one if there is no apparent need. It is also made clear that being unable to financially support the families is a reason to not marry more than once.

Now reading that, can you tell me if the majority of people in Somalia are able to financially support two families or more?

This is the prevalent school of thought in Somalia but the teaching has been disregarded for any number of reasons. Has Somalia become a society in which we choose our madhab depending on whether it aligns with our desires or not?

I said what I was writing knowing full well regarding the Shafiici perspective on polygamy laakin you took the bait.

Could you kindly cite the evidence where imam shafi stated that it's sunnah to only marry one wife ? scholars in the shafi madhab had different views regarding it yet you only cite those that only validate your view. As i told you before you need to stop cherry picking and imposing your own understanding on the evidences that you searched up.

First it was with the Prophet's PBUH marriage to Khadijah RA and now with rulings from the shafi madhab.

As I have stated, I do not care for the practice in general.

I have an issue with its use not the practice itself. There is little need for Somalis to marry more than once and the fact is that most Somalis back home are unable to financially provide for more than one family, thus being unjust.

Your blind support of polygamy in our community is also problematic.

My point has been that the practice of polygamy in Somalia has been problematic for our society, as there have been no checks and balances or regulation. I have never questioned the validity of polygamy as an Islamic construct.

One thing I will leave you with is that any sheikh worth his salt will tell you this: Islam does not tell one to marry four wives, it limits us to four wives. The religion placed restrictions on a society that was rather laissez-faire regarding polygamy by limiting the wifes and reasons for marriage.

As for your question about evidence, you still have not counted my point about Shafiici. The madhab that Somalis follow is critical of polygamy unless there is a need. You have not countered my point here.

I will answer your question about society when you answer the questions I asked you earlier:

Do Somali men marry more than once because there is an inherent need?

Can they financially look after their families?

All that long explanation and it did not argue against my central point in that the polygamy that is practiced in Somalia is unhealthy and problematic due to financial instability and scarcity of resources.

You have not refuted my claim whatsoever and by arguing with me, you are disputing the rulings and interpretations of the madhab Somalis follow.

It's pretty obvious that you're more than prejudiced and have a disdain for polygamy so much so that you're willing to forego any objective analysis of it. In your eyes polygamy has no benefit other than to cause grief and destruction of entire ethnicities

Unlike you i don't jump to conclusions nor make hasty judgements on a sensitive issue such as polygamy. I try my utmost not to let any preconceived assumptions, views, hatred etc dictate my understanding of islamic issues especially ones that are multifaceted and affect the lives of many people.

Furthermore there's no need to refute your claims as the basis that you argue from is nothing more than your own opinion that you've generalised to disguise as actual facts.

Your main claim that polygamy has ruined us because of some men not acting upon islam is made redundant when you consider that the same happens in monogamous marriages where some men don't also act upon islam. How come weren't ruined in the case of monogamy but in polygamy we are ?

The fact that you haven't even bothered to address this contradiction shows me that you didn't even think this issue properly before you decided to engage with it.

 

[Periplus]

Where are you getting the statistics that majority of polygamous marriages in somalia have financial problems or that most men wanting to get a second wife etc are not financially stable ? You're just passing your opinions as facts and expect people to just accept it ?

In your initial post you said that polygamy ruined somalia because numerous men went and married younger women. You were implying that majority of these were financial unstable but most importantly they constituted a majority large enough to destroy our ethnicity. I then mentioned that the same issue is still prevalent in monogamous marriages where some men keeping on marrying and divorcing how come this doesn't destroy our nation or ethnicity ?



You only mentioned the unchecked practice only after i criticised your initial post. Your criticism of polygamy is based on the unsubstantiated claim that majority of men who practice it are unfit and this has ruined us. In your mind there's no benefits to it and this why you only have negative connotations towards it.



Again projecting your opinions as facts, could you kindly back up your claim that polygamy practiced in somalia ruins us ? what is your claim based on other than bias ? are you a scholar, imam, etc to have in front martial records etc ?

What you're doing is generalising the instances of men failing to act according to islam in polygamous marriages and use it as proof. The same can be done to monogamous marriages and anyone can claim using their bias that monogamy practiced in somalia has ruined us.

Any unprejudiced individual will notice the fault in making such exaggerated claims.



Look at how you just tracked back from your initial claim ? when the exact same issue happens in monogamous marriages it's horrible but it's only fixable with unhealthy polygamous marriages ? can i ask how come the issues aren't fixable in monogamous marriages, what stopping it ?

Most importantly how come the same problems despite occurring in both monogamous & polygamous marriages leads to our destruction only in polygamy ?



Could you kindly cite the evidence where imam shafi stated that it's sunnah to only marry one wife ? scholars in the shafi madhab had different views regarding it yet you only cite those that only validate your view. As i told you before you need to stop cherry picking and imposing your own understanding on the evidences that you searched up.

First it was with the Prophet's PBUH marriage to Khadijah RA and now with rulings from the shafi madhab.



It's pretty obvious that you're more than prejudiced and have a disdain for polygamy so much so that you're willing to forego any objective analysis of it. In your eyes polygamy has no benefit other than to cause grief and destruction of entire ethnicities

Unlike you i don't jump to conclusions nor make hasty judgements on a sensitive issue such as polygamy. I try my utmost not to let any preconceived assumptions, views, hatred etc dictate my understanding of islamic issues especially ones that are multifaceted and affect the lives of many people.

Furthermore there's no need to refute your claims as the basis that you argue from is nothing more than your own opinion that you've generalised to disguise as actual facts.

Your main claim that polygamy has ruined us because of some men not acting upon islam is made redundant when you consider that the same happens in monogamous marriages where some men don't also act upon islam. How come weren't ruined in the case of monogamy but in polygamy we are ?

The fact that you haven't even bothered to address this contradiction shows me that you didn't even think this issue properly before you decided to engage with it.

Regardless of your polemic diatribe.

One thing is important, I stated that polygamy in Somalia has been ruined by a competition of limited resources between families. I also said in my initial post that if one has financial stability, they can get a second wife.

Imam Shafiici agreed with this opinion in that polygamy should be something that its beneficial to refrain from if one does not possess financial stability or generally unsure of whether they are fit.

Waad calaacal badan tahay. I have no problem if someone with financial stability wants to two wives, I said that from the beginning.

I tried reasoning with you, I tried providing scholarly opinion laakin now you've become devoid of being reasoned with.

 

[Periplus]

@AdoonkaAlle

Literally google "Shaafi'i interpretation of polygamy" and you will find almost overwhelming evidence that shows this particular madhab was critical of polygamy.

You will also find quotes from the Imam himself, laakin I did not want to link them without being sure of its veracity.

Sometimes it is best not to argue with people that have a deeper understanding of the topic than yourself. I am being extremely polite laakin you are starting become rather annoying and I do not want to get dembi from insulting a pious man.

 

[AdoonkaAlle]

Regardless of your polemic diatribe.

One thing is important, I stated that polygamy in Somalia has been ruined by a competition of limited resources between families. I also said in my initial post that if one has financial stability, they can get a second wife.

Imam Shafiici agreed with this opinion in that polygamy should be something that its beneficial to refrain from if one does not possess financial stability or generally unsure of whether they are fit.

Waad calaacal badan tahay. I have no problem if someone with financial stability wants to two wives, I said that from the beginning.

I tried reasoning with you, I tried providing scholarly opinion laakin now you've become devoid of being reasoned with.

You lacked nuance and let your hatred dictate your views about polygamy. People are indeed entitled to their opinions but they don't constitute fact. It's why i criticised your assumptions.

Financial stability is just one aspect, a man could be rich and still be abusive, take away the rights of his wives etc. This is why i say you lack both the knowledge and understanding in this issue as you haven't studied just googled a few things here and there that's about it.

We need to acknowledge our limitation especially in matters that we simply lack knowledge in, that's why it's important to evaluate our stances, views etc so as to not fall into errors.

If you're not willing to blame monogamous marriage in somalia for the injustice committed by those in these marriages, why don't you do the same for a polygamous marriage? why claim that only injustices in polygamy leads to destruction of our community when the same injustice also occur in monogamy?


What scholarly opinions did you bring to back up your claim that polygamy leads to destruction of an entire community simply because some people commit injustices ?

 

[jabsveg276]

Will this thread ever die?

 

[AdoonkaAlle]

@AdoonkaAlle

Literally google "Shaafi'i interpretation of polygamy" and you will find almost overwhelming evidence that shows this particular madhab was critical of polygamy.

You will also find quotes from the Imam himself, laakin I did not want to link them without being sure of its veracity.

Sometimes it is best not to argue with people that have a deeper understanding of the topic than yourself. I am being extremely polite laakin you are starting become rather annoying and I do not want to get dembi from insulting a pious man.

There you go again with projecting your views of what scholars said, tell me how many opinions of shafi scholars have you read before you came to that conclusion of yours ?

Because you googled and read a few snippets here and there makes you believe that you're an expert now ? you haven't even read the books where the quotes are from simply took it for granted that what you read actually represents that entire view of said scholars. Tell me did you even double check the quotes from the source ?

 

[Periplus]

There you go again with projecting your views of what scholars said, tell me how many opinions of shafi scholars have you read before you came to that conclusion of yours ?

Because you googled and read a few snippets here and there makes you believe that you're an expert now ? you haven't even read the books where the quotes are from simply took it for granted that what you read actually represents that entire view of said scholars. Tell me did you even double check the quotes from the source ?

For someone that claims to be a man of religion, you are very spiteful and condescending with disagreement.

You can denigrate me as uneducated or unread or copy-pasting sources laakin it is your dembi.

As I told @TekNiKo the opinions of most of the scholars I can confirm but I was unsure of Imam Shaafici's quote as I only came across it online. The wording of the sentence should tell you that I have read these scholar's opinions, it is very heavily implied.

What hallmark is it of a pious man to resort to condescending insults and dismissal when presented with evidence that counters their opinion.

Either present evidence from the Shafiici madhab that encourages polygamy or accept you lost this argument.

 

[AdoonkaAlle]

For someone that claims to be a man of religion, you are very spiteful and condescending with disagreement.

You can denigrate me as uneducated or unread or copy-pasting sources laakin it is your dembi.

As I told @TekNiKo the opinions of most of the scholars I can confirm but I was unsure of Imam Shaafici's quote as I only came across it online. The wording of the sentence should tell you that I have read these scholar's opinions, it is very heavily implied.

What hallmark is it of a pious man to resort to condescending insults and dismissal when presented with evidence that counters their opinion.

Either present evidence from the Shafiici madhab that encourages polygamy or accept you lost this argument.

sxb my questioning of your views wasn't meant to ridicule you but to make you think and re-evaluate this topic of polygamy in a holistic manner. You jumped in without taking the time to read through things properly. We're talking about an important aspect of our diin and not any random issue.

Learning and understanding takes time even when one has the necessary tools that are required to pursue it. Both me and you are nothing more than laypeople the only difference is one of experience in dealing with such issues. Trust me i've made my fair share of mistakes learnt from them and continue to do so until the day i die

My taalo to you walaal is to learn to be reflective and be consistent with it so as to not make mistakes that you may never have the chance to correct. With that being said do forgive me for any transgression from my side it was never my intention haye walaal

Let's end our discussion here, mahadsanid for your contribution

 

[Qeelbax]

@Abba Sadacha shy you thinking? Ion want a nigga with another chick

 

[jabsveg276]

@Baarisiyomoos Props to you for making such a successful thread.

 

[CanoGeel]

My Tibetan/Bhutan wife and I have mutually parted ways because her family would like her to be in a polyandrous relationship for cultural and religious reasons. Many families in their community are trying to save this old tradition before it dies so i granted their wish and divorced her despite her opposition. anyways her family married her to three husbands.

Afterwards, it dawned on me that our polygamous tradition is dying too and i , as a decent human being who owes a lot to his people and values their culture should do my part to save this tradition and give back to the community. So i embarked to just do that and i am happily living with my two wives, with their approval of course.

i am potentially open for a third wive given there is strong compatibility/chemistry.

i love y'll ladies and wish you the happiest life. I cant say more but Luuq is accessible

 

[Baarisiyomoos]

@Baarisiyomoos Props to you for making such a successful thread.

Big ups

 

[Abba Sadacha]

@Abba Sadacha shy you thinking? Ion want a nigga with another chick

Fair enough.
That's okay. But not all women would pick loneliness forever over having a decent man with another wife. Me personally, I'd just want one wife. You have to be just and fair to multiple wives, then there's the finances needed for them, so to save myself from that, I'd just want one woman.

 

[Qeelbax]

Fair enough.
That's okay. But not all women would pick loneliness forever over having a decent man with another wife. Me personally, I'd just want one wife. You have to be just and fair to multiple wives, then there's the finances needed for them, so to save myself from that, I'd just want one woman.

I would say approximately 99% of men in this day and age with more than one wife are not following the islamic rules. There’s a hadith that says a man with more than one wife that doesn’t treat them exactly the same, same finances/love/honor etc on the day of judgment they will be brought back to life with half their body paralyzed

imagine tryna explain to god why you did that but half yo mouth is paralyzed

deserved