Women feel jealousy too

[Based]

Peace View attachment 192199

What ethnic group does she belong to? Her face fills me with sudden rage I think she did me wrong in my past life

 

[TekNiKo]

Do you want to argue for the sake of arguing?

Scholars are pretty clear what you as a man have to provide. You know what it entails, but you want to twist things to your advantage.

If you don't know, educate yourself. Clearly this polygamy conversation isn't a conversation you should be having.

Bye!

Triggered much? The modern consumerist lifestyle isnt the standard for provision.

 

[AdoonkaAlle]

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Inb4 I get but its halal etc.

You need to choose your words wisely as the apparent meaning of your statement is very problematic from an islamic perspective. How can something that Allah made lawful ruin an entire community ? it's like claiming marriage has ruined us due to the fact that some people don't fulfil their obligation towards their spouses, children etc

The problem doesn't lie with polygamy but with the people, your statement despite your explanation faults polygamy as the core reason for our ruin. Furthermore the same issues that you cited like hatred among siblings, financial burden etc will remain even if the father instead of engaging in polygamy simply chose to divorce his first wife and remarried later.

Somali men also marry divorced women with multiple children, it's the reason why divorced women in our community find it very easy to remarry again as opposed to other muslim communities. Yet you ignored to factor in this fact, why is that ? If you do intend to claim that majority of polygamy in our community involves men marrying young virgin women would you care to show us any statistics to support this claim of yours ?

Muhammad PBUH did not marry a second wife until his first wife (Khadija RA) died. Also, I feel like one needs to be at a considerable level of wealth, in which re-marrying does not place financial strain, before they can consider re-marriage.

Yes it's true that the Prophet PBUH didn't marry a second wife until Khadija RA passed away but this isn't a stipulation and nor has it ever been. Just like it never is a stipulation that a man's first wife has to be older than him etc. The Prophet PBUH married Aisha at a very young age a fact that is quite problematic for many to accept simply because it goes against their adopted western ethics. My question is why cherry pick which marriages/stories/incidents etc that suits your narratives and neglect others ?

Have a read of the following hadith detailing the circumstances of the Prophet PBUH and his household

Aisha reported: We in the household of Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him, used to live for a whole month without cooking anything over a fire. We would have nothing to eat but dates and water.

Source: Ṣaḥīḥ Muslim 2792


It's understandable that most gabdho aren't comfortable with sharing their husbands and wouldn't engage in polygamy but attacking polygamy and blaming it for our ruining our community it's a different matter altogether. The latter is problematic as it attacks a practice that is lawful in islam, also portraying majority of men who choose to engage it as deadbeats for the actions of some isn't going to solve anything at all. If anything it worsens the entire situation

We need to stop this habit of scrutinising aspects of our religion that don't confirm with the values from gaalada that many of us have blindly adopted. There's a need to re-examine and re-evaluate these adopted assumptions to see if they're consistent with islamic values before we go on to utilise them as our standard.

 

[Periplus]

You need to choose your words wisely as the apparent meaning of your statement is very problematic from an islamic perspective. How can something that Allah made lawful ruin an entire community ? it's like claiming marriage has ruined us due to the fact that some people don't fulfil their obligation towards their spouses, children etc

The problem doesn't lie with polygamy but with the people, your statement despite your explanation faults polygamy as the core reason for our ruin. Furthermore the same issues that you cited like hatred among siblings, financial burden etc will remain even if the father instead of engaging in polygamy simply chose to divorce his first wife and remarried later.

Somali men also marry divorced women with multiple children, it's the reason why divorced women in our community find it very easy to remarry again as opposed to other muslim communities. Yet you ignored to factor in this fact, why is that ? If you do intend to claim that majority of polygamy in our community involves men marrying young virgin women would you care to show us any statistics to support this claim of yours ?

Repeat after me, just because something is halal does not mean everybody should do it.

Somalis always pull out the polygamy hadiths but never the cleanliness hadiths. You go back home and look for yourself, we have forgone stuff like cleaniness which is half the iman for something that is sunnah like polygamy.

Go to Pakistan, Afghanistan, Jordan, Turkey or Morocco, any random Muslim country and see if polygamy is as prevalent there as it is in Somalia. It is because the vast majority of men realise they are unable to have two stable families.

Yes it's true that the Prophet PBUH didn't marry a second wife until Khadija RA passed away but this isn't a stipulation and nor has it ever been. Just like it never is a stipulation that a man's first wife has to be older than him etc. The Prophet PBUH married Aisha at a very young age a fact that is quite problematic for many to accept simply because it goes against their adopted western ethics. My question is why cherry pick which marriages/stories/incidents etc that suits your narratives and neglect others ?

Have a read of the following hadith detailing the circumstances of the Prophet PBUH and his household

Aisha reported: We in the household of Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him, used to live for a whole month without cooking anything over a fire. We would have nothing to eat but dates and water.

Source: Ṣaḥīḥ Muslim 2792


It's understandable that most gabdho aren't comfortable with sharing their husbands and wouldn't engage in polygamy but attacking polygamy and blaming it for our ruining our community it's a different matter altogether. The latter is problematic as it attacks a practice that is lawful in islam, also portraying majority of men who choose to engage it as deadbeats for the actions of some isn't going to solve anything at all. If anything it worsens the entire situation

We need to stop this habit of scrutinising aspects of our religion that don't confirm with the values from gaalada that many of us have blindly adopted. There's a need to re-examine and re-evaluate these adopted assumptions to see if they're consistent with islamic values before we go on to utilise them as our standard.

In Islam, we use the prophet's PBUH life as a legal precedent, since we consider him a role model.

He did not marry again until his first wife died, which shows that polygamy is not required in an otherwise stable family.

Whether you like it or not, polygamy in Somalia ruined Somalia.

Now you can argue that the polygamy practiced in Somalia was not Islamic or it was mishandled but the unchecked remarrying by Somali men in the countryside ruined Somali social dynamic.

If you have any family that were from polygamous backgrounds, maybe you should go preach to them.

 

[Angelina]

Triggered much? The modern consumerist lifestyle isnt the standard for provision.

You want to change Islamic rulings for your own desires.

Provision is providing seperate accommodation, bills, clothing, and food. Your wife doesn't have to provide a dime. You know this. So why ask?

So your point is baseless. Many of you lot can't even put a roof over your wives head without even trying to get her to pay half. And that is basic!

It is very clear, if you cannot provide this, you cannot enter a polygamous marriage. Stop trying to change the deen.

 

[trucel]

This is facts , if a girl likes you she will do anything.

 

[Unicorn]

men dont give a shit if it was not halal they would just cheat or divorce and marry another women. anyways this happened to my aunt she married an older man he was verbally abusive towards her and they had 11 children together now he married another women and does not visit his other kids and she asked US to help her with bills when its his responsibility its fucking annoying.

 

[King Khufu]

Why do men go about things as if women don’t also get jealous and possessive, just as they do.

A woman has never loved me enough to be jealous of me before .
I don't know if this is a good or bad thing!
Lmao

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[AdoonkaAlle]

Repeat after me, just because something is halal does not mean everybody should do it.

Somalis always pull out the polygamy hadiths but never the cleanliness hadiths. You go back home and look for yourself, we have forgone stuff like cleaniness which is half the iman for something that is sunnah like polygamy.

Go to Pakistan, Afghanistan, Jordan, Turkey or Morocco, any random Muslim country and see if polygamy is as prevalent there as it is in Somalia. It is because the vast majority of men realise they are unable to have two stable families.

Are you even aware how problematic your claim is sxb ? the legality of polygamy is established by Allah but here you're blaming it for ruining an entire community ? You're shifting the blame on the fact that it is permissible in islam and not on the people who don't fulfil it's obligation/transgress it's limit etc.

Yes polygamy is not for everybody but this is besides the point as you were blaming it's permissibility for destroying our community. Polygamy has been practised since the time of the Prophet PBUH did it also ruin their community ?

Your views as it stands now blames the fact that is allowed, are you trying to imply that Allah made a mistake by allowing it ?

Except for afghanistan and jordan all the other countries have laws which either ban it or restrict it. In turkey it's banned but get this homosexualty is legal so is zina, the fact that you even try to use turkey as an example is outrageous. while in pakistani and morroco they restrict it eg woman has to sign consent, pay fines etc. This is down to their madhab i believe which in the case of somalis is different.

In Islam, we use the prophet's PBUH life as a legal precedent, since we consider him a role model.

He did not marry again until his first wife died, which shows that polygamy is not required in an otherwise stable family.

Whether you like it or not, polygamy in Somalia ruined Somalia.

Now you can argue that the polygamy practiced in Somalia was not Islamic or it was mishandled but the unchecked remarrying by Somali men in the countryside ruined Somali social dynamic.

If you have any family that were from polygamous backgrounds, maybe you should go preach to them.

Sax the Prophet PBUH is our role model but you need to understand that his actions come in different categories some are wajib while others are not and your lack of understanding of it is clearly showing. More importantly polygamy was a common practice among the arabs, in fact many of the sahaba had multiple wives when the Prophet was still married to Khadija

Now the question that you need to ask yourself is did the sahaba make a mistake by not limiting themselves to only 1 wife ? In addition to this the command of limiting the number of wives to 4 came after the Prophet's migration to medina meaning many muslim men had more than 4 wives before the ayah was revealed.

For some men and women polygamy maybe the best course of action for them depending on their circumstance but for others this maybe different. However no muslim scholar has ever claimed that a man can't marry a second wife while his first wife still lives. You're imposing your own views on the Prophet's marriage to Khadija and trying to derive rulings based on that .

Khadija was older than the Prophet PBUH will you also claim that those who don't marry an older woman as their first wife just like the Prophet PBUH aren't following in his footsteps ?


Polygamy is halal it can never be un-islamic rather people either don't meet it's requirement or abuse it. What evidence do you have to claim that polygamy in badiyo has ruined our social dynamic ? i mean what makes you believe that your opinion counts as evidence or fact ?

How can you stand there and claim that a practice that Allah made permissible for us is destroying us ? Had you said that people not meeting the obligation of it and abusing the limits set by Allah then we wouldn't have an issue

Imagine claiming that the institution of marriage itself is to blame for the shortcomings, abuse, crimes that spouses commit towards each other and their children ? are you even sane sxb ? You need to re-evaluate your assumptions and stop judging islam through the lens of western ethics

 

[akaA2]

Are you even aware how problematic your claim is sxb ? the legality of polygamy is established by Allah but here you're blaming it for ruining an entire community ? You're shifting the blame on the fact that it is permissible in islam and not on the people who don't fulfil it's obligation/transgress it's limit etc.

Yes polygamy is not for everybody but this is besides the point as you were blaming it's permissibility for destroying our community. Polygamy has been practised since the time of the Prophet PBUH did it also ruin their community ?

Your views as it stands now blames the fact that is allowed, are you trying to imply that Allah made a mistake by allowing it ?

Except for afghanistan and jordan all the other countries have laws which either ban it or restrict it. In turkey it's banned but get this homosexualty is legal so is zina, the fact that you even try to use turkey as an example is outrageous. while in pakistani and morroco they restrict it eg woman has to sign consent, pay fines etc. This is down to their madhab i believe which in the case of somalis is different.






Sax the Prophet PBUH is our role model but you need to understand that his actions come in different categories some are wajib while others are not and your lack of understanding of it is clearly showing. More importantly polygamy was a common practice among the arabs, in fact many of the sahaba had multiple wives when the Prophet was still married to Khadija

Now the question that you need to ask yourself is did the sahaba make a mistake by not limiting themselves to only 1 wife ? In addition to this the command of limiting the number of wives to 4 came after the Prophet's migration to medina meaning many muslim men had more than 4 wives before the ayah was revealed.

For some men and women polygamy maybe the best course of action for them depending on their circumstance but for others this maybe different. However no muslim scholar has ever claimed that a man can't marry a second wife while his first wife still lives. You're imposing your own views on the Prophet's marriage to Khadija and trying to derive rulings based on that .

Khadija was older than the Prophet PBUH will you also claim that those who don't marry an older woman as their first wife just like the Prophet PBUH aren't following in his footsteps ?


Polygamy is halal it can never be un-islamic rather people either don't meet it's requirement or abuse it. What evidence do you have to claim that polygamy in badiyo has ruined our social dynamic ? i mean what makes you believe that your opinion counts as evidence or fact ?

How can you stand there and claim that a practice that Allah made permissible for us is destroying us ? Had you said that people not meeting the obligation of it and abusing the limits set by Allah then we wouldn't have an issue

Imagine claiming that the institution of marriage itself is to blame for the shortcomings, abuse, crimes that spouses commit towards each other and their children ? are you even sane sxb ? You need to re-evaluate your assumptions and stop judging islam through the lens of western ethics

He's talking abt baadiyo as if he ever went there. I highly doubt he even has nomadic close relatives, all these people using somalia as excuses have never even stayed in somalia long enough to draw conclusions from it.
Most of these ciyaal diaspora stink and smell of the high life its even evident in their walking styles. They would never last a month up in somalia.

 

[AdoonkaAlle]

He's talking abt baadiyo as if he ever went there. I highly doubt he even has nomadic close relatives, all these people using somalia as excuses have never even stayed in somalia long enough to draw conclusions from it.
Most of these ciyaal diaspora stink and smell of the high life its even evident in their walking styles. They would never last a month up in somalia.

That's the least of his problems tbh, as his point is that polygamy in and of itself is what is causing our ruin. Had it not been for polygamy we wouldn't be having the problems he cited according to him, he's literally shifting the blame on the permissibility of polygamy.

It's similar to claiming that the practice of marriage itself is the main cause for the injustice, abuse, that is committed against one's spouse, children etc ie marriage destroys a society.

 

[TekNiKo]

You need to choose your words wisely as the apparent meaning of your statement is very problematic from an islamic perspective. How can something that Allah made lawful ruin an entire community ? it's like claiming marriage has ruined us due to the fact that some people don't fulfil their obligation towards their spouses, children etc

The problem doesn't lie with polygamy but with the people, your statement despite your explanation faults polygamy as the core reason for our ruin. Furthermore the same issues that you cited like hatred among siblings, financial burden etc will remain even if the father instead of engaging in polygamy simply chose to divorce his first wife and remarried later.

Somali men also marry divorced women with multiple children, it's the reason why divorced women in our community find it very easy to remarry again as opposed to other muslim communities. Yet you ignored to factor in this fact, why is that ? If you do intend to claim that majority of polygamy in our community involves men marrying young virgin women would you care to show us any statistics to support this claim of yours ?





Yes it's true that the Prophet PBUH didn't marry a second wife until Khadija RA passed away but this isn't a stipulation and nor has it ever been. Just like it never is a stipulation that a man's first wife has to be older than him etc. The Prophet PBUH married Aisha at a very young age a fact that is quite problematic for many to accept simply because it goes against their adopted western ethics. My question is why cherry pick which marriages/stories/incidents etc that suits your narratives and neglect others ?

Have a read of the following hadith detailing the circumstances of the Prophet PBUH and his household

Aisha reported: We in the household of Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him, used to live for a whole month without cooking anything over a fire. We would have nothing to eat but dates and water.

Source: Ṣaḥīḥ Muslim 2792


It's understandable that most gabdho aren't comfortable with sharing their husbands and wouldn't engage in polygamy but attacking polygamy and blaming it for our ruining our community it's a different matter altogether. The latter is problematic as it attacks a practice that is lawful in islam, also portraying majority of men who choose to engage it as deadbeats for the actions of some isn't going to solve anything at all. If anything it worsens the entire situation

We need to stop this habit of scrutinising aspects of our religion that don't confirm with the values from gaalada that many of us have blindly adopted. There's a need to re-examine and re-evaluate these adopted assumptions to see if they're consistent with islamic values before we go on to utilise them as our standard.

Marriage actually increases rizq according to Islam

Sayyiduna ‘Umar Ibn Al Khattab (radiyallahu ‘anhu) would say:

“I am surprised at the person who does not search for wealth by means of marriage, whereas Allah Ta’ala has stated “If they are poor, Allah will make them independent by his grace”

(‘Abdur Razzaq, Refer: Al Maqasidul Hasanah, pg. 83, Hadith: 162)



5) Nabi (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) said:

“Marry women, for verily they will bring wealth” [through the blessing of nikah]

(Musannaf Ibn Abi Shaybah, Hadith: 16161, mursalan- مرسلا- , with a reliable chain)

 

[AdoonkaAlle]

Marriage actually increases rizq according to Islam

Sayyiduna ‘Umar Ibn Al Khattab (radiyallahu ‘anhu) would say:

“I am surprised at the person who does not search for wealth by means of marriage, whereas Allah Ta’ala has stated “If they are poor, Allah will make them independent by his grace”

(‘Abdur Razzaq, Refer: Al Maqasidul Hasanah, pg. 83, Hadith: 162)



5) Nabi (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) said:

“Marry women, for verily they will bring wealth” [through the blessing of nikah]

(Musannaf Ibn Abi Shaybah, Hadith: 16161, mursalan- مرسلا- , with a reliable chain)

I know sxb mahadsanid

Walaalka despite trying to point out that polygamy comes with it's own set of conditions and obligations went on to argue for a view point that's inconsistent with diinta. It's natural for dumarka to be jealous and not want to share their husbands with another woman laakinse this shouldn't be used as an avenue to attack either the sanctity of polygamy or women who choose not to engage with it.

We can present our views without belittling or ridiculing each other but most importantly ensure that they're within the limits of what diinta allows. Which is why careful evaluation of our views, assumptions is needed so that we don't transgress the limits.

 

[Periplus]

He's talking abt baadiyo as if he ever went there. I highly doubt he even has nomadic close relatives, all these people using somalia as excuses have never even stayed in somalia long enough to draw conclusions from it.
Most of these ciyaal diaspora stink and smell of the high life its even evident in their walking styles. They would never last a month up in somalia.

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[Periplus]

As for @AdoonkaAlle

I have extremely polite to you and ignored many of your baseless assertions against me. Laakin, every man has a breaking point.

My point in this thread was never to argue that polygamy was haram or that it was inherently wrong, but that polygamy in Somali society is wrong. Very clear difference.

In the Shafiici school of Islamic jurisprudence, that many Somalis claim to follow for their religious guidance, it is asserted that men should only marry one wife even if they act equitably towards multiple.

Imam Shafiici himself stated that it is better for one to protect themselves from potential injustice by marrying one wife and also lists an inability to financially look after your families as a reason for not marrying more than one.

Now the question is why have Somalis as a society follow Shafiici for everything except for marriage. Do Somali men marry more than once because there is an inherent need? Can they financially look after their families?

I leave those questions for you to answer.

Before, you try arguing that my claims are baseless, I would suggest googling the Shafiici school's interpretation of polygamy in Islam before responding to my message.

Laakin, in all my generosity, I will offer you a peace deal as you seem like a man of deen, which I respect.

I never stated that the Islamic practice of polygamy should be thrown away or discarded, I criticised the role of polygamy in Somali society. As many muslims argue, Islam is not a problem, Muslims are. My underlying argument has been that polygamy by Somalis ruined Somalia, as many Somalis have used polygamy just to have a second wife not for the reasons it was intended. This has placed considerable strain on the Somali family dynamic that can be seen in our nation today.

If we cannot agree on this then I guess we will continue arguing....

 

[Periplus]

To dumb it down for people that may not necessarily get what I am saying.

The school of Islam that Somalis claim to follow asserts that it is beneficial that men should marry only one wife for numerous reasons.

I understand the problems with Madhabs etc. laakin for many Somalis they claim to follow Shafiici and use that schools interpretation of Islam.

Now the question is, are Somalis really practicing polygamy for religious reasons if their brand of Islam does not recommend it?

Also, is the polygamy practiced by Somalis Islamic according to the Shafiici madhab?

 

[Periplus]

@TekNiKo @AdoonkaAlle @akaA2

I will be offline for a while but I want you all to read this and prepare your arguments.

I will be back soon to read.

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[elite1337]

That’s what I’m saying. My dad was at every practice, every rehearsal, every game, every ceremony, parent teacher meeting, etc etc. Growing up. I’m shocked hearing that so many somalis have deadbeat dads cause my dad is amazing. Also @Snacks saying that 3 months per family per year is enough, how disgusting lol. You’re basically not a parent, just a benefactor. If I only saw my dad 3 months a year growing up we’d definitely not have as great of a relationship as we do now.

Most somalis dont have deadbeats this is a lie and blown out of proportion

 

[AdoonkaAlle]

As for @AdoonkaAlle

I have extremely polite to you and ignored many of your baseless assertions against me. Laakin, every man has a breaking point.

My point in this thread was never to argue that polygamy was haram or that it was inherently wrong, but that polygamy in Somali society is wrong. Very clear difference.

In the Shafiici school of Islamic jurisprudence, that many Somalis claim to follow for their religious guidance, it is asserted that men should only marry one wife even if they act equitably towards multiple.

Imam Shafiici himself stated that it is better for one to protect themselves from potential injustice by marrying one wife and also lists an inability to financially look after your families as a reason for not marrying more than one.

Now the question is why have Somalis as a society follow Shafiici for everything except for marriage. Do Somali men marry more than once because there is an inherent need? Can they financially look after their families?

I leave those questions for you to answer.

Before, you try arguing that my claims are baseless, I would suggest googling the Shafiici school's interpretation of polygamy in Islam before responding to my message.

Laakin, in all my generosity, I will offer you a peace deal as you seem like a man of deen, which I respect.

I never stated that the Islamic practice of polygamy should be thrown away or discarded, I criticised the role of polygamy in Somali society. As many muslims argue, Islam is not a problem, Muslims are. My underlying argument has been that polygamy by Somalis ruined Somalia, as many Somalis have used polygamy just to have a second wife not for the reasons it was intended. This has placed considerable strain on the Somali family dynamic that can be seen in our nation today.

If we cannot agree on this then I guess we will continue arguing....

You were and continue to make the claim that a practice that Allah has made halal for us leads to the destruction of our community.

Injustice doesn't happen because men in polygamous marriages act on islam on the contrary the injustices occur as a result when men in such marriages neglect or transgress the limits of islam. The fault lies with men and not with polygamy itself, yet you claim the opposite and claim that polygamy as an institution is to blame.

Since muslims are the problem and not islam then why in the world do you blame polygamy for our ruin and not the muslims who go against the limits of polygamy ? To make matters even worse the same problems you cited like sibling hatred, financial burden occurs in monogamous marriages as well. Who in their right mind is going to claim that monogamy has ruined our society because of the injustices committed by some people who're in a monogamous marriage ?

Majority of marriages in somalia are monogamous meaning that from a statistics point of view the problem you cited will have a higher occurrence in monogamy than in polygamy. What then, are you going to call for marriage as a whole to be banned ?

Imam shafii says it's desirable/preferable for a man to marry one wife so as to avoid committing injustice. In all the madhabs the ulama list down the reasons and conditions for such marriages etc the rulings differ on the circumstance of those in question. Most importantly the rulings are guidelines and not commandments, choosing not to follow them doesn't mean that one is committing a sin.

The madhabs in general are there to facilitate the learning and practising of diinta, people are of different levels and not everyone will have the same understanding or even be aware of each specific ruling for any given matter. You'll also find different rulings held by ulama of the same madhab as well, meaning there's a rich diverse of opinions regarding one specific issue. People act based on their traditions and as along as what they act on is within the limits allowed by diinta there's no problem.

In this entire discussion you keep on using historical facts, rulings etc to try and justify your view of polygamy but so far you fall short on each and every occasion. The reason being you hold a very negative view of polygamy and will use any evidence you believe that supports your claim.

Let me ask you since you keep on questioning us, in all of the evidences, rulings etc that you have either read or searched, have you found a single one validating your claim that polygamy leads to the destruction of a muslim society ?

Polygamy is practiced in the somali community because it's made halal for us by Allah just like all other muslim nations of the past and present. Allah has legislated it for His slaves and it serves a very beneficial purpose, our duty as muslims is to ensure that we abide by the limits that Allah has set for us not to question it's validity nor claim that it leads to our destruction simple because we decide to practice it.

As it stands your view of polygamy is a very problematic one and inconsistent with islam, i find it strange that you're fixated on the shortcoming of the somali community but neglect yours even though we're held responsible for our actions not others.

 

[Periplus]

Firstly, I do not know why we are having this argument.

I said in my initial post that a scarcity of resources in many Somali polygamous marriages have caused tension and that one needs to be financially stable before considering a second wife.

This is completely in line with Shafiici madhab, but I will entertain your diatribe despite my politeness.

You were and continue to make the claim that a practice that Allah has made halal for us leads to the destruction of our community.

I claimed the unchecked practice of polygamy is the ruin of Somalia.

I always criticised how it is practiced, never the practice itself.

Next.

Injustice doesn't happen because men in polygamous marriages act on islam on the contrary the injustices occur as a result when men in such marriages neglect or transgress the limits of islam. The fault lies with men and not with polygamy itself, yet you claim the opposite and claim that polygamy as an institution is to blame.

Since muslims are the problem and not islam then why in the world do you blame polygamy for our ruin and not the muslims who go against the limits of polygamy ?

I blame polygamy in Somalia, not polygamy itself. There is a difference, let me explain.

I made the assertion that the polygamy done by Somalis ruins our community. I have never once stated that polygamy as a construct should be outlawed. In that, I never tried to make haram what is halal.

In fact, numerous times in this thread, I have stated either unchecked polygamy or polygamy in Somalia was ruining Somalia, not the underlying concept. In Somalia today, how are we able to make sure whether a man taking up a second wife is following the requirements set by Islam, including our interpretation of it?

Until you can provide an answer to this question then how am I supposed to be in blind deference to a practice in Somalia that may not even follow the requirements set by our deen.

Next.

To make matters even worse the same problems you cited like sibling hatred, financial burden occurs in monogamous marriages as well. Who in their right mind is going to claim that monogamy has ruined our society because of the injustices committed by some people who're in a monogamous marriage ?

Majority of marriages in somalia are monogamous meaning that from a statistics point of view the problem you cited will have a higher occurrence in monogamy than in polygamy. What then, are you going to call for marriage as a whole to be banned ?

Issues that happen in monogamous marriages are also horrible but issues that happen in unhealthy polygamous marriages are very fixable. In that, we need to place checks and balances on this practice and not let this issue be unchecked in our community.

This argument is similar to pro-gun activists defending assault weapons by saying that knifes kill too. Yes, that is very well true but there is an easily fixable situation in front of us that is due to people marrying multiple women without meeting pre-set criteria .

This leads me to my next point....

Imam shafii says it's desirable/preferable for a man to marry one wife so as to avoid committing injustice. In all the madhabs the ulama list down the reasons and conditions for such marriages etc the rulings differ on the circumstance of those in question. Most importantly the rulings are guidelines and not commandments, choosing not to follow them doesn't mean that one is committing a sin.

The madhabs in general are there to facilitate the learning and practising of diinta, people are of different levels and not everyone will have the same understanding or even be aware of each specific ruling for any given matter. You'll also find different rulings held by ulama of the same madhab as well, meaning there's a rich diverse of opinions regarding one specific issue. People act based on their traditions and as along as what they act on is within the limits allowed by diinta there's no problem.

The Shafiici madhab is very clear on stating that it is sunnah not to marry more than one if there is no apparent need. It is also made clear that being unable to financially support the families is a reason to not marry more than once.

Now reading that, can you tell me if the majority of people in Somalia are able to financially support two families or more?

This is the prevalent school of thought in Somalia but the teaching has been disregarded for any number of reasons. Has Somalia become a society in which we choose our madhab depending on whether it aligns with our desires or not?

I said what I was writing knowing full well regarding the Shafiici perspective on polygamy laakin you took the bait.

In this entire discussion you keep on using historical facts, rulings etc to try and justify your view of polygamy but so far you fall short on each and every occasion. The reason being you hold a very negative view of polygamy and will use any evidence you believe that supports your claim.

As I have stated, I do not care for the practice in general.

I have an issue with its use not the practice itself. There is little need for Somalis to marry more than once and the fact is that most Somalis back home are unable to financially provide for more than one family, thus being unjust.

Let me ask you since you keep on questioning us, in all of the evidences, rulings etc that you have either read or searched, have you found a single one validating your claim that polygamy leads to the destruction of a muslim society ?

Polygamy is practiced in the somali community because it's made halal for us by Allah just like all other muslim nations of the past and present. Allah has legislated it for His slaves and it serves a very beneficial purpose, our duty as muslims is to ensure that we abide by the limits that Allah has set for us not to question it's validity nor claim that it leads to our destruction simple because we decide to practice it.

As it stands your view of polygamy is a very problematic one and inconsistent with islam, i find it strange that you're fixated on the shortcoming of the somali community but neglect yours even though we're held responsible for our actions not others.

Your blind support of polygamy in our community is also problematic.

My point has been that the practice of polygamy in Somalia has been problematic for our society, as there have been no checks and balances or regulation. I have never questioned the validity of polygamy as an Islamic construct.

One thing I will leave you with is that any sheikh worth his salt will tell you this: Islam does not tell one to marry four wives, it limits us to four wives. The religion placed restrictions on a society that was rather laissez-faire regarding polygamy by limiting the wifes and reasons for marriage.

As for your question about evidence, you still have not counted my point about Shafiici. The madhab that Somalis follow is critical of polygamy unless there is a need. You have not countered my point here.

I will answer your question about society when you answer the questions I asked you earlier:

Do Somali men marry more than once because there is an inherent need?

Can they financially look after their families?

All that long explanation and it did not argue against my central point in that the polygamy that is practiced in Somalia is unhealthy and problematic due to financial instability and scarcity of resources.

You have not refuted my claim whatsoever and by arguing with me, you are disputing the rulings and interpretations of the madhab Somalis follow.