Would This Be Sadistic?

[ethan bradberry]

I don't know why but I keep waiting for you to slip and talk about Islam but you never do

I just don't care about religion

 

[Zayd]

It's more to do with trust in God's plan than in trying to determine what God's intentions are.

Iblis like minds would say it's sadistic because they see the world with a minimalistic philosophy based on materialism. Like when Iblis was told to prostrate his reason for denying was that he was superior to Adam due to his body being made of a more powerful element (fire) when compared to earth.

Seeing things at these bare minimums will lead you to conclude things like that, because you assume God is corporeal and does things similar to us, when to a Muslim we know God is unique and that whatever slight comparison the mind makes of our reasoning to His will falls short due to the fact that our minds are created and have our limits.

 

[Zayd]

But why again do we see a ex Muslim on Islam I wonder, just move on with your life.

 

[government]

Guy & Guv

Nice try, but if I was your religious instructor, I would have failed both of you. Go back to your Islamic books and read again Qadr, which is the concept of "divine destiny" in Islam and it is one of main 6 articles of faith in Islam. Either you challenge the "divine" concept of Qadar and al-Lawh aal Mahfouzl (the Book of Decrees) or accept it that God knew his intentions, unless your are both arguing that Allah suffered from dementia and sometimes required to know from his subject when he couldn't check his records.

Here's the thing you're not our religious instructor also I never said what you're talking about you're twisting my words
You won't make us gaalo so stop trying to debate us on our religion

 

[government]

I just don't care about religion

You're truly one of kind my friend
If only other gaalo were like you

 

[AussieHustler]

It's more to do with trust in God's plan than in trying to determine what God's intentions are. .

zayd

So God doesn't know what his followers harbour secretly and if they trust him or not?

Iblis like minds would say it's sadistic because they see the world with a minimalistic philosophy based on materialism. Like when Iblis was told to prostrate his reason for denying was that he was superior to Adam due to his body being made of a more powerful element (fire) when compared to earth.

Seeing things at these bare minimums will lead you to conclude things like that, because you assume God is corporeal and does things similar to us, when to a Muslim we know God is unique and that whatever slight comparison the mind makes of our reasoning to His will falls short due to the fact that our minds are created and have our limits.

The concept of creating Ibliis as an angel also douses the All-Knowing/Qadr concept with kerosene and burns it all because how didn't he know that Ibliis will refuse to prostrate before Adam?

Allah sounds like an obsessed cult leader who says, he is the All-knowing who predestined and knows everyone's, thoughts, beliefs and destiny and yet, he is suspicious of his flock and tests them.

 

[AussieHustler]

Here's the thing you're not our religious instructor also I never said what you're talking about you're twisting my words
You won't make us gaalo so stop trying to debate us on our religion

Guv

Ok mate. You wouldn't qualify as a "gaal" therefore meeshaada isaga jir.

 

[Zayd]

zayd

So God doesn't know what his followers harbour secretly and if they trust him or not?



The concept of creating Ibliis as an angel also douses the All-Knowing/Qadr concept with kerosene and burns it all because how didn't he know that Ibliis will refuse to prostrate before Adam?

Allah sounds like an obsessed cult leader who says, he is the All-knowing who predestined and knows everyone's, thoughts, beliefs and destiny and yet, he is suspicious of his flock and tests them.

You're issue seems to be with predestined will, every moment that passes by is a instantaneous beginning of something that wasn't before, but it all is moving in accordance with the Qadr and Qadha of Allah.

The question is, do you have the free will to do something right now, yes or no, if I was to smash a glass at a wall, I could do so, because I wanted to, yet at the same time, the effect of these actions are predetermined.

You seek to know why Allah created the world in this manner don't you? Well why don't you understand that if Allah is unique, immaterial, infinite, all knowing, then wouldn't He know everything that He brought into existence?


Despite this, this does not hinder ones ability to act freely, this is why it won't be used as a valid excuse on judgement day.

Allah gave you mental tools to arrive at the ultimate truth, and how you utilise those tools will define you as a individual and where you are headed. Spending time trying to utilise a finite, limited, ability such as the mind to grab such abstract and vast concepts such as Qadr and Qadha will only lead you to thoughts of disbelief which then is tantamount to you being placed in a abode that represents the wrath of Allah.

The Muslim knows of the bewildering nature of the concepts of predetermination, but we do not entertain such questions as why would Allah do that, because much of the laity would never understand, indeed many a wise man through Islam's history have understood, such as Ghazali, Jilani, Junaid etc... But people still make the same mistakes as those who came before them.

 

[TooMacaan]

I see where you're coming from, I used to be conflicted about that (among other things) when I first read that passage. It came off as very cult-y to me for a benevolent God to make such demands.

I remember questioning my mom about it and asking whether she'd sacrifice me in that situation and she replied "If it's in God's will, yes". It took me a while to understand but it's essentially about maintaining ultimate and unwavering faith in God as our sole creator. If we truly believe that God is good, we have to also trust 100% that he'd never ask us to do something that is outside our interests.

It's a test of Abraham's devotion to God as well as the strength of Abraham's faith(since a child is the most precious thing to a parent). We shouldn't ever doubt God because his judgment is superior to that of ours.
To some, I understand feeling defensive about religious matters but there's nothing wrong with asking questions; (as ironic as it may be in this circumstance) skepticism is healthy.

 

[ItzDoctorZ]

It was a test. Must've been hard for Abraham but atleast it didn't happen

 

[AussieHustler]

Toomacaan

You are making the same argument as the others above that God doesn't know if his flock really trust him, or not. If God doesn't know as you all implied, then it is not true that he is All-Knowing, omnipresent and omniscient and the concept or Qadr is flawed or it only works randomly. He says, he guides people and leads others astray. Why does he have to challenge them if he knows that they are the "Rightfully guided" by him? That is why religion is a blind faith because it contradicts, far from logic and nevertheless, its followers have been indoctrinated to the point of blindness about it.

 

[El padrone]

I don't know how Muslims and Christians are not troubled over God asking Abraham to sacrifice Isaac his own son.
To me that's some sadistic shit and in the end to just say " lol jk bro just pranking you" is more fucked up. Sorry but God sounds insecure. If a loving merciful God existed he would never ask his followers to do something so cruel. If God is all knowing why put Abraham through that agony?

sounds like you get off bashing muslims and islam. if u leave the deen stay away. mise you are looking excuses to convert but theres none

 

[AussieHustler]

sounds like you get off bashing muslims and islam. if u leave the deen stay away. mise you are looking excuses to convert but theres none

El Padrone

I view religion as an ideology and all ideologies do have weak and strong points, or may I say good and bad points and discussing those points doesn't constitute as bashing. It has being debated, analysed, criticised and defended by its followers since its inception and has survived. Therefore, chill sxb, it isn't going to disappear or be complaining about us.

 

[Paladin]

Aus
I am not a scholar or anything but my understanding is that Allah tested Abraham so that he may know if he would have unwavering faith in Allah. Of course Allah already knew the answer but we the future believers do not know this. So it was told as a story to show that faith in Allah should be unwavering and even if u don't like it u should willingly complete all of allahs commands. Basically what I'm trying to say is that the story of Abraham shows the Muslims what a true believer is and how much faith we should have in our Lord. So the goal is not to confirm what Allah already knows, but rather to show us what it is to be Muslim.

 

[TooMacaan]

Toomacaan

You are making the same argument as the others above that God doesn't know if his flock really trust him, or not. If God doesn't know as you all implied, then it is not true that he is All-Knowing, omnipresent and omniscient and the concept or Qadr is flawed or it only works randomly. He says, he guides people and leads others astray. Why does he have to challenge them if he knows that they are the "Rightfully guided" by him? That is why religion is a blind faith because it contradicts, far from logic and nevertheless, its followers have been indoctrinated to the point of blindness about it.

You misunderstood my comment then. The test of Abraham's faith wasn't just to see if Abraham will be a loyal and unwavering servant to God; it's not about God's knowledge and 'lack of englightenment' of Abraham's reaction/response.
Rather, the individuals who are meant to be enlightened in this situation are Abraham and anyone who happens to read the scripture. We are the target of God's message: to always put his judgement above that of ours and to always trust in his will.
Why does God have to challenge us??
Through Abraham's experience (he was the example/role model) and through our reflection of Abraham's experience (we don't have to go through it first hand, luckily)...God desires for us to learn and eventually reach the conclusion of his message (*via our own free will though).

sounds like you get off bashing muslims and islam. if u leave the deen stay away. mise you are looking excuses to convert but theres none

How is she bashing Muslims/Islam? She addressed the question to anyone who follows the Abrahamic faiths.

 

[I've spoken]

But why again do we see a ex Muslim on Islam I wonder, just move on with your life.

I'm tired of this retarded question.
It's because Islam is a curse on humanity and we're tired of seeing people suffer for the delusions of a desert wondering child rapist who is apparently supposed to be what every human aspires to imitate.

 

[Zayd]

I'm tired of this retarded question.
It's because Islam is a curse on humanity and we're tired of seeing people suffer for the delusions of a desert wondering child rapist who is apparently supposed to be what every human aspires to imitate.

Because every Muslim in history was a child rapist....

Go on then, March forth into the world and purge it of what you call religion. See where that will end you. Idiot.

You're the kind that will parrot the words of ignorant people without any cross referencing. Referring to the prophet as a child rapist just goes to show the deep ignorance you have when it comes to this topic.

Ignorant people are an eyesore, welcome to my ignore list ehlu naar.

 

[ItsHanna]

Because every Muslim in history was a child rapist....

Go on then, March forth into the world and purge it of what you call religion. See where that will end you. Idiot.

You're the kind that will parrot the words of ignorant people without any cross referencing. Referring to the prophet as a child rapist just goes to show the deep ignorance you have when it comes to this topic.

Ignorant people are an eyesore, welcome to my ignore list ehlu naar.

It's sunnah to marry a 6 year old you should follow suit

 

[I've spoken]

Aus
I am not a scholar or anything but my understanding is that Allah tested Abraham so that he may know if he would have unwavering faith in Allah. Of course Allah already knew the answer but we the future believers do not know this. So it was told as a story to show that faith in Allah should be unwavering and even if u don't like it u should willingly complete all of allahs commands. Basically what I'm trying to say is that the story of Abraham shows the Muslims what a true believer is and how much faith we should have in our Lord. So the goal is not to confirm what Allah already knows, but rather to show us what it is to be Muslim.

Show you what it is to be Muslim? To be Muslim you have to be able to slaughter your child like a goat because God said so?

 

[Paladin]

Show you what it is to be Muslim? To be Muslim you have to be able to slaughter your child like a goat because God said so?

It is Muslim to follow gods will no matter the command.