Xamar was established by nomads

[HabarSteven12]

Here we go again. Ibn Batutta, who visited the city himself said that the ruler of Mogadishu was a Berberah who spoke a non-Arabic tongue, of the same stock as the people of Zeila. In his description of Zeila, he says that it is a "town of the Berberah, who are a negro people. Their land is a desert extending for two months' journey from Zayla to Maqdashaw." In case there is any doubt who the Berberah are, there is only one dark-skinned ethnic group that inhabits the lands between Zeila and Mogadishu, and it definitely isn't the Arabs.

This is a DIRECT eye-witness account saying that Mogadishu was ruled by non-Arabs. Meanwhile, there is NOT A SINLGE primary, first hand, eye-witness account saying that Mogadishu was EVER ruled by Arabs, NOT ONE. The census collected by the Italians, show that Gibil-madow tribes outnumber Gibil-cad Benadiris, and that cadcads only formed 20% of Mogadishu's population in the colonial period.

Gibil-Madow Benadiris

I saw recently that @Jacko made this post: Before Italians came to Mogadishu, it only consisted of 2 districts: Xamar Weyne (literally old Xamar) and Shangani, those neighbourhoods were almost entirely Benadiri or Arab. Italians planned and built the rest. Italian census for their...

www.somalispot.com

But let me guess, I "failed to read these sources with a critical eye" Tell me the mistakes I made when I read these sources. Does "negro Berberah" actually mean "blonde Arab" in this context? Does what Ibn Battuta says contradict the "consensus of historians", thus making him incorrect. Give me the bullshit reason you cannot accept this unmistakeabley clear evidence I provided you.

Internet History Sourcebooks: Medieval Sourcebook

View attachment 306783

The notorious hotep is back. You are once again peddling historical inaccuracies. The first contemporary mention of the word Mogadishu was by Yaqut in 1228. He says they are Muslims, distinguished from the nomadic Barbar in the country round about, and are termed foreigners; they are not black in color. That passage clearly shows the Arab presence in Mogadishu.

You are misrepresenting what Ibn Battuta said about the people of Mogadishu. Ibn Battuta never explicitly stated the word Somali when describing the inhabitants of Mogadishu. You have reached a premature conclusion based on the misunderstanding of the words Barbara and Maqdishi. The word Barbara is often interpreted as meaning Somali. The word Barbara actually indicates a Bantu tongue (of the form of Swahili, which survives at Barawa), especially in view of the way that it seems to be in contrast to Barbara and in view of the Bantu names for some features of the town like Mnara and Shangani/Shingani. Maqdishi is the language of the Barbara people and a bantu tongue.

The word Barbara is also used to describe a geographical region. It was used to describe the Arabs in the past. Read the passage below. "When the power of these people became enfeebled, the Barabar (Arabians of the neighboring country) who had come to live among them, (rose and) overpowered them, driving them out."

Mogadishu was founded and established by Arabs. The first tribes of Mogadishu were the Banu Qahtaan. Somalis were not urban people until later in history. Somalis were not even allowed inside Mogadishu after nightfall. Heavy restrictions were placed on nomadic movements in the town of Mogadishu. You disregarded all the manuscripts that literally prove the first tribes of Mogadishu were the Banu Qahtaan.

Your strongest evidence is a person describing the inhabitants of Mogadishu as Barbara and that has been refuted on numerous occasions. The word Barbara is not specific to Somalis, but you guys keep regurgitating that ridiculous assertion. Name just a single ancient or medieval stone structure built by Somalis in Xamar. I have demonstrated extensive and comprehensive primary sources that prove Arabs founded and established Mogadishu. You disregarded my strongest evidence showing the first tribes of Mogadishu were the Banu Qahtaan, and that is well documented. You have not demonstrated a single primary source that shows Somalis founded and built Xamar. You keep adding your own distorted interpretation to statements made by historians and scholars.

 

[HabarSteven12]

Here we go again. Ibn Batutta, who visited the city himself said that the ruler of Mogadishu was a Berberah who spoke a non-Arabic tongue, of the same stock as the people of Zeila. In his description of Zeila, he says that it is a "town of the Berberah, who are a negro people. Their land is a desert extending for two months' journey from Zayla to Maqdashaw." In case there is any doubt who the Berberah are, there is only one dark-skinned ethnic group that inhabits the lands between Zeila and Mogadishu, and it definitely isn't the Arabs.

This is a DIRECT eye-witness account saying that Mogadishu was ruled by non-Arabs. Meanwhile, there is NOT A SINLGE primary, first hand, eye-witness account saying that Mogadishu was EVER ruled by Arabs, NOT ONE. The census collected by the Italians, show that Gibil-madow tribes outnumber Gibil-cad Benadiris, and that cadcads only formed 20% of Mogadishu's population in the colonial period.

Gibil-Madow Benadiris

I saw recently that @Jacko made this post: Before Italians came to Mogadishu, it only consisted of 2 districts: Xamar Weyne (literally old Xamar) and Shangani, those neighbourhoods were almost entirely Benadiri or Arab. Italians planned and built the rest. Italian census for their...

www.somalispot.com

But let me guess, I "failed to read these sources with a critical eye" Tell me the mistakes I made when I read these sources. Does "negro Berberah" actually mean "blonde Arab" in this context? Does what Ibn Battuta says contradict the "consensus of historians", thus making him incorrect. Give me the bullshit reason you cannot accept this unmistakeabley clear evidence I provided you.

Internet History Sourcebooks: Medieval Sourcebook

View attachment 306783

There are numerous mistakes in the census you showed me and it was extensively refuted by Banadiri Warrior.

In Xamar Gibil cad were the majority by around 60% as Italian census shows, while gibil madow being 40% . Gibil Madows of Xamar were in conferencies where smaller gibil madow reers were allied to gibil cad clans for example for bandhawow, Baxar Suufi are the biggest out of them and they're gibil cad , and there are 6 smaller gibil madow lineages that were allied to them. However in Moorsho and Dhabarweyne alliances, gibil madow were the majority.

As for Marka the gibil madows there were Shukureere, Juunji , Fasaxaale , Axmed nuur and Reer Xaaji and Reer Cumar of Reer Maanyo confederacy . The first three all moved into Awbaali after biimaal migration to south , and also they were minority in Marka and Jilib Marka.

Meanwhile in Barawa, the gibil madows were the ooji and urban tunnis ( not to be confused with other coastal tunnis that lived outside of Biruuni & Mpaayi)

 

[HabarSteven12]

Here we go again. Ibn Batutta, who visited the city himself said that the ruler of Mogadishu was a Berberah who spoke a non-Arabic tongue, of the same stock as the people of Zeila. In his description of Zeila, he says that it is a "town of the Berberah, who are a negro people. Their land is a desert extending for two months' journey from Zayla to Maqdashaw." In case there is any doubt who the Berberah are, there is only one dark-skinned ethnic group that inhabits the lands between Zeila and Mogadishu, and it definitely isn't the Arabs.

This is a DIRECT eye-witness account saying that Mogadishu was ruled by non-Arabs. Meanwhile, there is NOT A SINLGE primary, first hand, eye-witness account saying that Mogadishu was EVER ruled by Arabs, NOT ONE. The census collected by the Italians, show that Gibil-madow tribes outnumber Gibil-cad Benadiris, and that cadcads only formed 20% of Mogadishu's population in the colonial period.

Gibil-Madow Benadiris

I saw recently that @Jacko made this post: Before Italians came to Mogadishu, it only consisted of 2 districts: Xamar Weyne (literally old Xamar) and Shangani, those neighbourhoods were almost entirely Benadiri or Arab. Italians planned and built the rest. Italian census for their...

www.somalispot.com

But let me guess, I "failed to read these sources with a critical eye" Tell me the mistakes I made when I read these sources. Does "negro Berberah" actually mean "blonde Arab" in this context? Does what Ibn Battuta says contradict the "consensus of historians", thus making him incorrect. Give me the bullshit reason you cannot accept this unmistakeabley clear evidence I provided you.

Internet History Sourcebooks: Medieval Sourcebook

View attachment 306783

Read these primary sources. Inshallah, it will convince you that everything you stated about Mogadishu is historical fiction.

Few names of the ancient masjids built by the native Arabs and Persians, there's no point naming all of masjids of Xamarweyne and Shingaani as none were built by reer samaale's, so I'll just name the oldest ones

Masjid Jaamacada
Masjid Fakhruddin (Haji Muhammad bin Abdullah bin Muhammad Ash-Shirazi)
Masjid Arbaca Ruskin (Khusrow Bin Muhammad Ash-Shirazi)
Masjid Ash-Shariif Ahmad
Masjid Al Marwaas
Masjid Al Xaaji Musa
Masjid Sheikh Rumaani
Masjid Abdulaziz Al Makhzuumi

Here Shariif Caydaruus lists the earliest tribes to settle in Muqdisho and who their modern day descendants would be for example, Shaanshi from Jidcati's, Gudmane from Al Afiifi, Reer Faqih from Banu Qahtaan, As for Al Aqabi then they relocated to Marka where they established Duruqba Neighbourhood where they still reside in till this day.

View attachment 306392

This information is from manuscripts that were kept by Mucallim Mukarram from his ancestor Faqih Ahmad bin Faqih Abu Bakr Al Qahtani, here's the manuscript which was copied and also translated by Cerulli. View attachment 306394

Here, more tribes are named which mostly still reside in Muqdisho till this day ;View attachment 306395


As for gravesites, the two oldest of the existing graves are from Arab Muslims that passed away in early 2nd hijri century, before samaale even existed, their inscriptions are translated below, I wouldn't even need to list all the existing graves of Arabs and Persians from 7th and 8th hijri century as this is sufficient.
View attachment 306396


Now it's upon you to show atleast one ancient structure left behind by so called ancient samaale's of Banaadir coast wether it's a masjid, gravesite or neighbourhood in ruins or even name one reer xamar clan that descend from samaale and lived in xamar during 12th hijri century.

 

[killerxsmoke]

The notorious hotep is back. You are once again peddling historical inaccuracies. The first contemporary mention of the word Mogadishu was by Yaqut in 1228. He says they are Muslims, distinguished from the nomadic Barbar in the country round about, and are termed foreigners; they are not black in color. That passage clearly shows the Arab presence in Mogadishu.

You are misrepresenting what Ibn Battuta said about the people of Mogadishu. Ibn Battuta never explicitly stated the word Somali when describing the inhabitants of Mogadishu. You have reached a premature conclusion based on the misunderstanding of the words Barbara and Maqdishi. The word Barbara is often interpreted as meaning Somali. The word Barbara actually indicates a Bantu tongue (of the form of Swahili, which survives at Barawa), especially in view of the way that it seems to be in contrast to Barbara and in view of the Bantu names for some features of the town like Mnara and Shangani/Shingani. Maqdishi is the language of the Barbara people and a bantu tongue.

The word Barbara is also used to describe a geographical region. It was used to describe the Arabs in the past. Read the passage below. "When the power of these people became enfeebled, the Barabar (Arabians of the neighboring country) who had come to live among them, (rose and) overpowered them, driving them out."

Mogadishu was founded and established by Arabs. The first tribes of Mogadishu were the Banu Qahtaan. Somalis were not urban people until later in history. Somalis were not even allowed inside Mogadishu after nightfall. Heavy restrictions were placed on nomadic movements in the town of Mogadishu. You disregarded all the manuscripts that literally prove the first tribes of Mogadishu were the Banu Qahtaan.

Your strongest evidence is a person describing the inhabitants of Mogadishu as Barbara and that has been refuted on numerous occasions. The word Barbara is not specific to Somalis, but you guys keep regurgitating that ridiculous assertion. Name just a single ancient or medieval stone structure built by Somalis in Xamar. I have demonstrated extensive and comprehensive primary sources that prove Arabs founded and established Mogadishu. You disregarded my strongest evidence showing the first tribes of Mogadishu were the Banu Qahtaan, and that is well documented. You have not demonstrated a single primary source that shows Somalis founded and built Xamar. You keep adding your own distorted interpretation to statements made by historians and scholars.

and yet you would deny Yaqut ever Saying that Merca was inhabited by black people Lol

 

[attash]

The word Barbara actually indicates a Bantu tongue (of the form of Swahili, which survives at Barawa), especially in view of the way that it seems to be in contrast to Barbara and in view of the Bantu names for some features of the town like Mnara and Shangani/Shingani. Maqdishi is the language of the Barbara people and a bantu tongue.

Wallahi, I knew you were going to say this. Ibn Battuta clearly describes the Berberah as a negro ethnic group inhabiting the lands between Zeila and Mogadishu. So let me guess, these Bantu Berberahs also inhabited and ruled Zeila as well?

 

[HabarSteven12]

and yet you would deny Yaqut ever Saying that Merca was inhabited by black people Lol

Since when did I deny Yaqut saying that Hawiye inhabited Merca in the 12th century? Who inhabited Merca prior to Hawiye's migration to the historic town? The town of Merca was initially founded and built by Arabs. I stated that Merca was founded by Arabs, and I still stand by it. My ayeeyo Allah yarham) passed away in Merca last year.

 

[killerxsmoke]

Since when did I deny Yaqut saying that Hawiye inhabited Merca in the 12th century? Who inhabited Merca prior to Hawiye's migration to the historic town? The town of Merca was initially founded and built by Arabs. I stated that Merca was founded by Arabs, and I still stand by it. My ayeeyo Allah yarham) passed away in Merca last year.

lol with what evidence for goodness sake, yaqut said only black people lived there no one else

 

[HabarSteven12]

Wallahi, I knew you were going to say this. Ibn Battuta clearly describes the Berberah as a negro ethnic group inhabiting the lands between Zeila and Mogadishu. So let me guess, these Bantu Berberahs also inhabited and ruled Zeila as well?

As I mentioned earlier the word Barbara is of bantu origin and also refers to a geographical region. There were multiple waves of Arab migration into the town of Zeila. The first Arab wave took place in the 7th century by the banu aqeel. The second wave of Arab migration into Zeila took place in the 10th century by the Mawyanni Arabs. Prior to those two waves of Arab migration, not a single Somali clan inhabited Zeila. Zeila was entirely an Arab city until the 19th century.

Authors such as Ibn Hawqal, Al Muqaddaai and Ibn Said have confirmed the early presence of Arabian tribes in municipalities such as Berbera and Zeila. They record and speak in great detail about the Arab tribes that lived in Zeila. Their subclan and the regions they controlled are well documented.

Hussein Al Zaylici is a subclan of Banu Aqeel, according to the book Aqeeliyoon and three major Islamic historians. They ruled Zeila for a brief period of time. The word Zeila is literally of Arab origin. Please stop misrepresenting Ibn Battutas statements.

 

[attash]

Zeila was entirely an Arab city until the 19th century.

I can't do this anymore.

 

[Zak12]

The word Barbara actually indicates a Bantu tongue (of the form of Swahili, which survives at Barawa),

Again, where is your proof of this?

 

[HabarSteven12]

I can't do this anymore.

You can't intellectually refute anything I have said. As a coping mechanism, you just laugh and resort to ad-hominem attacks. You didn't have the intellectual capacity to refute any of my claims about the Banadir coast and Zeila. All the comprehensive and extensive primary sources have overwhelmed you. You are intellectually exhausted.

You have not demonstrated a single shred of evidence that Somalis founded and built the Banadir coast and Zeila. You asked me to demonstrate primary sources, and I gave you many. You still haven't provided a single primary source showing Somalis founded and built the Banadir coast and Zeila.

 

[Emir of Zayla]

Xamar was established by nomads presumably Somali nomads according to Banadiri sources

See: bughyat Al amal fi tarikh Al sumal

@bana

Xamar was built by urban Somalis, the whole south is either farmers or urban settled people.

 

[IKHALIIL]

Xamar was built by urban Somalis, the whole south is either farmers, nomads or urban settled people.

Fixed it for you

 

[attash]

You can't intellectually refute anything I have said. As a coping mechanism, you just laugh and resort to ad-hominem attacks. You didn't have the intellectual capacity to refute any of my claims about the Banadir coast and Zeila. All the comprehensive and extensive primary sources have overwhelmed you. You are intellectually exhausted.

You have not demonstrated a single shred of evidence that Somalis founded and built the Banadir coast and Zeila. You asked me to demonstrate primary sources, and I gave you many. You still haven't provided a single primary source showing Somalis founded and built the Banadir coast and Zeila.

After I showed you Ibn Battuta's stating in the clearest possible terms that the inhabitants of Zeila and the ruler of Mogadishu were "negro Berberahs", you then went ahead and said that Zeila was an "entirely Arab city until the 19th century".

Explain to me what part of this statement you do not understand:

I took ship at Aden, and after four days at sea reached Zayla [Zeila, on the African coast], the town of the Berberah, who are a negro people. - Ibn Battuta

Internet History Sourcebooks: Medieval Sourcebook

You know what, never mind. You're probably just going to say that he is talking about Bantus or Hararis or Habesh or Oromos or some other random group. Anyone except for Somalis.

I am "intellectually exhausted" by your ignorance.

 

[killerxsmoke]

You can't intellectually refute anything I have said. As a coping mechanism, you just laugh and resort to ad-hominem attacks. You didn't have the intellectual capacity to refute any of my claims about the Banadir coast and Zeila. All the comprehensive and extensive primary sources have overwhelmed you. You are intellectually exhausted.

You have not demonstrated a single shred of evidence that Somalis founded and built the Banadir coast and Zeila. You asked me to demonstrate primary sources, and I gave you many. You still haven't provided a single primary source showing Somalis founded and built the Banadir coast and Zeila.

Nigga u didnt show shit

 

[killerxsmoke]

After I showed you Ibn Battuta's stating in the clearest possible terms that the inhabitants of Zeila and the ruler of Mogadishu were "negro Berberahs", you then went ahead and said that Zeila was an "entirely Arab city until the 19th century".

Explain to me what part of this statement you do not understand:

I took ship at Aden, and after four days at sea reached Zayla [Zeila, on the African coast], the town of the Berberah, who are a negro people. - Ibn Battuta

Internet History Sourcebooks: Medieval Sourcebook

You know what, never mind. You're probably just going to say that he is talking about Bantus or Hararis or Habesh or Oromos or some other random group. Anyone except for Somalis.

I am "intellectually exhausted" by your ignorance.

He's a benadir guy cosplaying as a Habargidir, he's cancer wallahi

 

[Zak12]

After I showed you Ibn Battuta's stating in the clearest possible terms that the inhabitants of Zeila and the ruler of Mogadishu were "negro Berberahs", you then went ahead and said that Zeila was an "entirely Arab city until the 19th century".

Explain to me what part of this statement you do not understand:

I took ship at Aden, and after four days at sea reached Zayla [Zeila, on the African coast], the town of the Berberah, who are a negro people. - Ibn Battuta

Internet History Sourcebooks: Medieval Sourcebook

You know what, never mind. You're probably just going to say that he is talking about Bantus or Hararis or Habesh or Oromos or some other random group. Anyone except for Somalis.

I am "intellectually exhausted" by your ignorance.

Lmao, he would even say Aboriginals or Eskimos were being talked about before mentioning Somalis

 

[HabarSteven12]

After I showed you Ibn Battuta's stating in the clearest possible terms that the inhabitants of Zeila and the ruler of Mogadishu were "negro Berberahs", you then went ahead and said that Zeila was an "entirely Arab city until the 19th century".

Explain to me what part of this statement you do not understand:

I took ship at Aden, and after four days at sea reached Zayla [Zeila, on the African coast], the town of the Berberah, who are a negro people. - Ibn Battuta

Internet History Sourcebooks: Medieval Sourcebook

You know what, never mind. You're probably just going to say that he is talking about Bantus or Hararis or Habesh or Oromos or some other random group. Anyone except for Somalis.

I am "intellectually exhausted" by your ignorance.

With all due respect, you are displaying emotional subjectivity rather than historical objectivity. You keep adding your own distorted conclusion about Ibn Battuta's visit to Mogadishu and Zeila. Ibn Battuta landed in Zeila in 1331. Who ruled Zeila during that period? Zeila was ruled by the leader of the Ifat Sultanate Sabr ad-Din. Sabr ad-Din wasn't Somali. He was an Arab. You seem to be either intellectually illiterate or ignorant about the ethnic composition of Zeila at the time of Sabr ad-Din. The ethnic composition of Zeila mainly consisted of semetic-speaking elements like the Arrogoba and the harla groups.

The Semitic speaking sedentary Argobba, who seem to have provided political and military leadership in the formation of the Muslim Shawan state in the tenth century, became the dominant sedentary group after Ifat replaced Shawa.

It's well documented by al Maqrizi. The cushitic population of Ifat consisted of warjeh, Gobal and Zallan. Even for the sake of argument I concede and say you are right. That still doesn't prove that Somalis founded and built Zeila. Ibn Battuta was referring to the Arrogoba people and the cushitic stock that mainly consisted of Warjeh, Zallan and Gobal.

I love how you still didn't provide a single primary source that shows somalis founded and built the Banadir coast and Zeila. You are still running away. You can only rely on one quote of Ibn Battuta and even that was refuted. You are a laughing stock.

 

[HabarSteven12]

Nigga u didnt show shit

Few names of the ancient masjids built by the native Arabs and Persians, there's no point naming all of masjids of Xamarweyne and Shingaani as none were built by reer samaale's, so I'll just name the oldest ones

Masjid Jaamacada
Masjid Fakhruddin (Haji Muhammad bin Abdullah bin Muhammad Ash-Shirazi)
Masjid Arbaca Ruskin (Khusrow Bin Muhammad Ash-Shirazi)
Masjid Ash-Shariif Ahmad
Masjid Al Marwaas
Masjid Al Xaaji Musa
Masjid Sheikh Rumaani
Masjid Abdulaziz Al Makhzuumi

Here Shariif Caydaruus lists the earliest tribes to settle in Muqdisho and who their modern day descendants would be for example, Shaanshi from Jidcati's, Gudmane from Al Afiifi, Reer Faqih from Banu Qahtaan, As for Al Aqabi then they relocated to Marka where they established Duruqba Neighbourhood where they still reside in till this day.

View attachment 306392

This information is from manuscripts that were kept by Mucallim Mukarram from his ancestor Faqih Ahmad bin Faqih Abu Bakr Al Qahtani, here's the manuscript which was copied and also translated by Cerulli. View attachment 306394

Here, more tribes are named which mostly still reside in Muqdisho till this day ;View attachment 306395


As for gravesites, the two oldest of the existing graves are from Arab Muslims that passed away in early 2nd hijri century, before samaale even existed, their inscriptions are translated below, I wouldn't even need to list all the existing graves of Arabs and Persians from 7th and 8th hijri century as this is sufficient.
View attachment 306396


Now it's upon you to show atleast one ancient structure left behind by so called ancient samaale's of Banaadir coast wether it's a masjid, gravesite or neighbourhood in ruins or even name one reer xamar clan that descend from samaale and lived in xamar during 12th hijri century.

Banu Qahtaan were the first tribes of Mogadishu. This is well documented. You just don't have the intellectual capacity to analyze historical sources with a critical eye. Read all those sources. You are running around in circles like a lunatic.
The ancestors of the old Arab tribes had migrated from as early as the 2nd Hijri century to the 7th Hijri century.

Xamar comes from the word Himyar. Arabs controlled the coastal region of Azania, which stretched from Mogadishu all the way to Rhapta. Azania included Mogadishu, Marka, and Barawa and was subject to Amir Sharahbil Ya’fir ibn As’ad Abu Karib. Amir Sharahbil was the king of Yemen and ruled between 418 and 433. Himyar inscriptions were discovered in Xamar. Various waves of Arab migration took place from the antiquity period until the spread of Islam along the Indian Ocean trade. You are coping after being intellectually humailted.

 

[Zak12]

The ethnic composition of Zeila mainly consisted of semetic-speaking elements like the Arrogoba and the harla groups.

You do realize Ethiosemites didn't live anywhere close to Zeila? Wallahi how do you ignore the Dir clan, Afars and all other Cushites in Northern Somalia/Djibouti? Muslim Ethiosemite were mainly living in Shewa and Hararghe aka central-eastern Ethiopia. Harla also aren't proven to be Semitic speakers either.

Of course, you think that Ifat's dynasty was Ethiosemitic in originate and even if that was true, it doesn't mean the entire realm was Semitic speaking. Ifat was multiethnic so it would have had scores of Cushitic speakers in the east, especially in northern Somalia. There is no proof that the Dir dominated lands around Zeila had a strong Ethiosemitic presence much like how there is no proof of a strong Somali presence in Shewa