Zayli grave in mecca from the 9th century
- Thread starter Midas
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I really had not heard of him until @Idilinaa brought him to my attention but he seriously is the most serious and legit scholar we have on the field today who is actually redefining many things. He should contact Sada Mire for PR pointers.
I think they're ultimately academics and feel what they're doing is much more "meaningful" in the big scheme of things because they're publishing actual scholarly works that wind up in journals or as books by qualified scholars (them).
But I think they ignore the importance of PR because while you will certainly steer the serious scholarship on a subject by publishing serious scholarly works, the average person's opinions are based on what they see on YouTube, TikTok, random forums like this and even Wikipedia to some extent. You have to somewhat be publicly accessible to influence and reach those people but I don't know if they really care about that.
But I think they ignore the importance of PR because while you will certainly steer the serious scholarship on a subject by publishing serious scholarly works, the average person's opinions are based on what they see on YouTube, TikTok, random forums like this and even Wikipedia to some extent. You have to somewhat be publicly accessible to influence and reach those people but I don't know if they really care about that.
They really do ignore this stuff at their own peril. I mean the pseudohistory that is public somali history is mind boggling.
I feel like much of what's publicly out there about most ethnic groups and regions is sorta pseudohistory. Just look at what's typically out there about Habeshas, for example. Most people have no clue about the deeply pastoral roots of Ancient Greek culture even though so many people gush over them, as another example:
I'm somewhat reminded of what I've more recently been learning about Ancient Greece which is that it was actually an essentially an Agro-Pastoral society:
Past, present and future of pastoralism in Greece - Pastoralism
Pastoral farming has been a feature of the Greek scene since antiquity. The geomorphology of the area, climatic conditions and the prevailing systems of agricultural production in lowland regions at any given time have all been conducive to the development and preservation of this productive...pastoralismjournal.springeropen.com
The Identification of pastoralist sites Within the context of estate-based agriculture in ancient Greece: beyond the ‘Transhumance versus agro-pastoralism’ debate
The present ‘transhumance versus agro-pastoralism’ debate is here set within the context of a broadly based anthropological approach to pastoralism. Certain constant features of the relationship of pastoralists to their landscape are identifiable,www.academia.edu
Much of mainland Greece and the islands are simply not suited for large-scale agriculture—too rocky, mountainous, and with thin soil. To make up for this, the Greeks heavily supplemented their agricultural economy with animal husbandry and transhumance. They herded goats and sheep seasonally between highland and lowland pastures, relying on their milk and meat as dietary staples. It’s no coincidence that many early Greek myths, like those of the Homeric heroes, often portray shepherd figures tending their flocks—pastoral life was deeply embedded in their cultural identity.
What's been standing out to me is how mobile and adaptive the Greek economy seems to have been. Households often shifted between different roles depending on the season or family structure—some members farming what land they could, others herding animals, trading, sailing, or even fighting. Sounds a whole lot like how it appears Somali society functioned except we had bigger herd animals in the form of camels and cattle and less mountainous and rocky terrain.
@Idilinaa @Midas @Xareen @NidarNidar
Mainstream stuff out there is mostly quite lackluster on everyone but I fully agree that these adeers need to wake up and more aggressively share their work.
I have a somewhat relevant question. When did Islam become widespread and common among Somalis? (when I say widespread and common I don't mean 100%, just a good number of Somalis became Muslim)
Videos Ive seen on the “spread of Islam” seem to coincide with Somali clan history e.g. Sheikh Isaaq etc around the 13th century, I guess these videos use that as evidence but I just don't buy it, I'm sure Islam arrived much earlier than that for Somalis, my guess is around the 8th century, iirc there's an ancient masjid in saylac that points to Jerusalem which proves how ancient Islam is in Somalia, at least with some early adopters. We know of how some of the Sahaba migrated to Ethiopia for a while and some conversions happened yet you never see that in these videos, it kinda annoys me ngl. Its not like the horn of Africa was alien to the Muslims considering extensive trade happened way before the Islamic period and continued to happen.
This video doesn't do too bad of a job considering it places the time period for Somalia around the 10th century.
Look at this atrocious video, it places Islam in Somalia towards the 14th century and uses states as evidence, on top of that it doesn't even acknowledge the “harla kingdom” as a state in which Islam arrived.
Look at this video, it completely ignores the importance of the horn of Africa when it comes to Islamic history, literally not mentioned.
This might be one of the worst ones, it shows Islam coming to the horn through the red sea hills rather than southern Arabia lol. A lot of these videos have massive views too.
This video made by a Turkish guy (I think) was the only decent video I could find, even then im not sure how accurate it is. Some of these videos have Islam arriving in the Sahelian Kingdoms before they arrive in the Horn which is wild. The Horn region outside of Abyssinia (and even there a lot of the time tbh) has to be one of the most criminally ignored areas of history in the world.
Videos Ive seen on the “spread of Islam” seem to coincide with Somali clan history e.g. Sheikh Isaaq etc around the 13th century, I guess these videos use that as evidence but I just don't buy it, I'm sure Islam arrived much earlier than that for Somalis, my guess is around the 8th century, iirc there's an ancient masjid in saylac that points to Jerusalem which proves how ancient Islam is in Somalia, at least with some early adopters. We know of how some of the Sahaba migrated to Ethiopia for a while and some conversions happened yet you never see that in these videos, it kinda annoys me ngl. Its not like the horn of Africa was alien to the Muslims considering extensive trade happened way before the Islamic period and continued to happen.
This video doesn't do too bad of a job considering it places the time period for Somalia around the 10th century.
Look at this atrocious video, it places Islam in Somalia towards the 14th century and uses states as evidence, on top of that it doesn't even acknowledge the “harla kingdom” as a state in which Islam arrived.
Look at this video, it completely ignores the importance of the horn of Africa when it comes to Islamic history, literally not mentioned.
This might be one of the worst ones, it shows Islam coming to the horn through the red sea hills rather than southern Arabia lol. A lot of these videos have massive views too.
This video made by a Turkish guy (I think) was the only decent video I could find, even then im not sure how accurate it is. Some of these videos have Islam arriving in the Sahelian Kingdoms before they arrive in the Horn which is wild. The Horn region outside of Abyssinia (and even there a lot of the time tbh) has to be one of the most criminally ignored areas of history in the world.
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Islam probably became consolidated amongst Somalis somewhere in the 11th to 12th century.
And it arrived as early as the 7th century in the northwestern reaches of Somalia/Djibouti
There are numerous Christian symbols in Somaliland, but most of those disappeared after the 10th century. There were also Jewish temples dating back earlier, around the ports, Yemen, across from us, prior to Islam were Jewish.
Richard Burton still haunts us to this day.... we need more Somali historians and archaeologists to give nuanced takes "The Gadabursi and Madaxweyna Dir recall coming into conflict with non-Muslims at that period, when Adal was flourishing. It is said that this city and its neighbour Aububah fought like certain cats in Kilkenny till both were “eaten up:” the Gadabursi fix the event at the period when their forefathers still inhabited Bulhar on the coast — about 300 years ago. " The Gadabuursi who his talking about are Makahil (Reer Nuur) who still live at Bulhar and around the eastern borders of Awdal. The site Darbiyah Kola(Abasa) had 2 mosques, it's more likely Abasa and Awbube were fighting for control over the trade, both sites shown extensive farming, and were Muslim, even my own subclan founder, Sheekh Ismaaciil Saeid Da'ud is buried in Harawo and his brother in Sanaag, so the area in between most of been inhabited by allies and he frequently travelled to the coasts which is why his nickname was Xeebjire, it makes sense for this to be around the 15th century, since the tmcra between T Isaaq, Cisse and Gadabuursi formed around 800 years ago, the lineage itself arose 1600 years ago, but the most recent ancestor shared by all current members lived 800 years ago.
The following report also makes mention of Abasa(Darbiyah Kola), Hasadinle and Awbube having similar material culture unique to western Somaliland, in the sphere of influence of barr Saʿd al-Dīn Sultanate.
Another tantalising tail, the galla in question were Amhara.
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"Further light on the Dir advance and Galla withdrawal seems to be afforded by an Arabic manuscript describing the history of the Gadabursi clan. This chronicle opens with an account of the wars of Imam 'Ali Si'id (d. 1392), from whom the Gadabursi today trace their descent and who is described as the only Muslim leader fighting on the Western flank in the armies of Sa'd ad-Din (d. 1415), ruler of Zeila."
You can't make this shit up, Burton is spouting historical garbage, we need to take a hold of our own history.
"Pankhurst adds that Sa'ad ad-Din also fought against the kingdom of the Hadiya and a pastoral people called the Zalan, both of whom were Christian allies."
Good read, but lacks insight and uses regurgitated mistakes from previous historians.
Kola’s Kingdom: The Territory of Abasa (Western Somaliland) during the Medieval Period - International Journal of Historical Archaeology
During the thirteenth to sixteenth centuries, the territory of western Somaliland was integrated into a series of Muslim states which controlled large areas of the southeastern Horn of Africa. One of the ways this control manifested itself was in the emergence of a network of permanent...
link.springer.com
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The horn of africa is such a confusing places because of all the distorted historiography. When I first learned about akusm. The way it's described made me think its so large somalis easily must have been part of it. But the more you dig the more you realize how exaggerated it is. Especially considering the fact that you don't have any churches/monasteries in the amhara region til several centuries after akusm collapses
In reality the invasion and control of yemen is deceiving. This what the actual full extent of aksum with the two red dots being yeha and axum .
In reality the invasion and control of yemen is deceiving. This what the actual full extent of aksum with the two red dots being yeha and axum .
Oh and also the reason i didn't include souther eritrea was becuase it's basically desert where nobody besides a small amount of afar live.
The Afar Triangle acted as a natural buffer, notice the terrain, we lost a large chunk of our arable land in the SR after the wars due to Oromo invasions and the collapse of centralised government.
It's wild to think that somali weyne might have been even larger in the past.
The lack of diversity in somali dna makes sense if we came through thr afar triangle route . We also must have passed through it pretty quickly considering how much of it is desert.
We also probably passed through it before 1000b.c since the migrations of south arabian migrants starter around then.
Why’s the control of Yemen deceiving?
Becuase when you hear the word empire I imagined they controlled a large portion of Ethiopia then invaded yemen. Bu if you look at thr map it becomes clear how close the section of yemem they invaded and controlled is.
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