A Happy Coming-Out-Story for A Somali Ex-Muslim

[Dhabaal]

I didn't expect taqqiyya from you out of all people @Geeljire.

I'm sorry this isn't taqqiyya. I am not in denial of any practice nor have i dissimulated from my Islamic culture, having doubts about God is natural in islam. Believe it or not.

Having doubts in Allah Almighty is natural and one should avoid being too concerned about them. In fact, doubts and evil thoughts are a sign of one’s faith.

http://islamqa.org/hanafi/daruliftaa/8377


Also i am not your boy @Geeljire , i am not a substitute just because you are lonely.

 

[McLovin]

I'm sorry this isn't taqqiyya. I am not in denial of any practice nor have i dissimulated from my Islamic religion, having doubts about God is natural in islam. Believe it or not.


http://islamqa.org/hanafi/daruliftaa/8377


Also i am not your boy @Geeljire , i am not a substitute just because you are lonely.

Fixed it for you Geeljire

 

[Dhabaal]

You know what.you so called ''Ex-Muslims'' continue to prove how ignorant you are about Islam.

Well what can you say when your source material is Fox News, Richard Dawkins and Ayaan Hirsi.

Not exactly theologians or experts in the field of religion and humanities.

 

[McLovin]

You know what.you so called ''Ex-Muslims'' continue to prove how ignorant you are about Islam.

Well what can you say when your source material is Fox News, Richard Dawkins and Ayaan Hirsi.

Not exactly theologians or experts in the field of religion or humanities.

What difference does it make if we are ignorant to it or not. Didn't you "allegedly" leave it to become an agnostic? Why are you over here typing apologetics like the mullah you are

 

[McLovin]

Matter of fact if you really about the shits. Proclaim right here and now that you denounce Allah and his religion

That would convince me :siilaanyolaugh:

 

[Dhabaal]

What difference does it make if we are ignorant to it or not. Didn't you "allegedly" leave it to become an agnostic? Why are you over here typing apologetics like the mullah you are

Me having doubts in Eebe doesn't mean i leave Islam. Since when is agnosticism an ideology or a culture. It simply means ''I am not sure''.. because it does not prevent your from extracting morals, values from it and practicing the rituals and traditions of Islam.

and in Islam having doubts is natural and considered an aspect of someones faith. It means you are a thinking human being , who can rationalize.

 

[McLovin]

Thats it what i find funny, me doubts in Eebe doesn't mean i leave Islam. Since when is agnosticism an ideology or a culture. It simply means i ''I am not sure''.. because it does not prevent your from extracting morals, values from it and practicing the rituals and traditions of Islam.

If you are not sure then my advice to you youngblood is to keep searching for the answer. Good luck on it

 

[dhegdheer]

Can ya''ll chill for a sec. I have like 5 Atheists continuously and furiously quoting me at once. You guys do realize i have life and obligations, i cannot spend all my day responding to these posts.

One person at a time please.

.

Have you no awareness over what you type down.?




Assuming that all muslims are fundementalists. You didn't specify anything all you did was throw out your mere assertive claim as some fact.


It would be like me claiming all secularists are fundementalist like Mao , Stallin and Hitler willing to throw you of the nearest bridge for simply ''Stating you are a muslim'''

Ehh english isn't my first language, I use fundamentalist and extremist interchangeable but you get my point no need to play obtuse. Most Muslim would not accept you if you were to leave Islam. in most instances you would be shunned or disowned, worst case scenario you would lose your life.

Speak for yourself, i know plenty of religious families who don't disown or derogatorily refer to their kids as kaafir for having doubts.

That's nice but I know plenty of people who would I'm not the one offering useless one size fits all solutions like faking being a Muslim to please ones family

If there is issues or not an issue with the Quran and sunnah, that is your mere personal belief and a cultural view-point.

Moral relativism huh So disagreeing with the death sentence for apostates is now a eurocentric view?

But to say you disbelieve in God based on your disagreements with it is bogus.

???
disagreeing with the quran, the central text of Islam, the last revelation of Allah, is not good enough to warrant becoming an atheist/agnostic?

''Ajanabi Arab culture'' kulaha, it would just as stupid as saying Europeans are middle eastern Hebrew wannabes for following Christianity or Chinese & Tibetian Buddhism is a foreign Indian religion.

Or better yet Japanese are culturally Chinese because of Confucianism. GTFO with that Arabophobia.

Its like you are implying you would follow Islam only if it originated in Somalia.

I'm just gonna quote my other post because it still applies

Dressing like desert dwellers? giving children Arab names instead of Somali names? abandoning our own traditions in favour of their traditions, values and morals. The whole concept of following the sunnah of the nabi is basically arabisation. If something doesn't align with the Muslim way of life it's considered "bid'ah" and "backwards" and should forcibly be abandoned.

You're right no forced arabisation occurred to Somalis, we did it to our selves which is even more tragic

Lol I wouldn't follow Islam if it were Somali, hell if I was fixated on worshiping a religion exclusive to Somalia I'd go and worship Waaq rn

Which leads me to my final point, Atheism doesn't mean that you automatically adopt a EuroCentric understanding of reality. Using disbelief in God as a weak cop out for you to leave a life-style you don't like or a agree with.

You keep banging on about god enough. Islam made me leave islam, I didn't just wake up one day and decide I wanted to wear a mini skirt therefore I'm not muslim anymore kulaha didn't agree with the life style. How patronizing

 

[Dhabaal]

Matter of fact if you really about the shits. Proclaim right here and now that you denounce Allah and his religion

That would convince me :siilaanyolaugh:

Agnosticism


Defintion:

• a person who does not have a definite belief about whether God exists or not
  
  
• : a person who is unsure of something

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/agnostic


Look at this fool conflating it with Atheism. Atheism is not logical , its mere belief in disbelief, its neither proven nor scientific.

 

[McLovin]

Agnosticism


Defintion:

• a person who does not have a definite belief about whether God exists or not
  
  
• : a person who is unsure of something

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/agnostic


Look at this fool conflating it with Atheism. Atheism is not a logical , its mere belief in disbelief, its neither proven nor scientific.

Scared the big man up there will put you on his unfriend list? You are not an agnostic. You are just a doubting muslim, or just pretending to have doubts. Sad

 

[Dhabaal]

Ehh english isn't my first language, I use fundamentalist and extremist interchangeable but you get my point no need to play obtuse. Most Muslim would not accept you if you were to leave Islam. in most instances you would be shunned or disowned, worst case scenario you would lose your life.

Anyone or any system can be either extreme or liberal. It isn't synonymously linked to anything specific whether it be religious,ideological or secular.

Acceptance is one thing, but implying we would all hate you or kill you or disown you for the mere act of disbelieving in God, is absurd and gross generalization.

If you leave a culture its like leaving a community. It is Just how it is, people seek out their equals.

My point is a mere disbelief in God doesn't prevent you from following a culture, and abiding by certain values and ethics. Whether i believe god exist or not is irrelevant to ''Others'' and is simply a ''Personal truth''. And is your doubts about ''God'' truly worth alienating yourself from your family and community?

Moral relativism huh So disagreeing with the death sentence for apostates is now a eurocentric view?

Yup, All human values are rooted somewhere, we cannot prove "right" and "wrong" by mere logic, because even those values at some stage must be anchored in some fundamental truths unique to the user. The cultural or moral root is not always universal. "Human rights" is therefore relative and dependent on the culture of a society.

Islam doesn't punish you for the simple act of disbelieving or having doubts or even questioning things, but bashing,insulting the deen or advocating for others to leave is a crime.

The crime can vary based on peoples interpretation from being jailed, or a fine, or death sentence. Well this is relegated to someones interpretation of sunnah and the quran.

I don't believe its unreasonable every society has limits upon expression in so far as what one considers lawful expression and that is informed by the values & the culture of society.

Well it is a Eurocentric view to think it is backward and to think that its universal absoulute truth. Tomorrow human rights could say the death penalty is "inhumane" this is not an absolute truth just because Amnesty says so. Torture was once an unthinkable violation of our basic humanity, US has new laws which say it isn't.

???
disagreeing with the quran, the central text of Islam, the last revelation of Allah, is not good enough to warrant becoming an atheist/agnostic?

No, That has nothing to do with the existence of a god but more or less to do with disagreement with culture and lifestyle choices. Why? because it's not a scientific argument that somehow disproves the existence of God.

Supernatural entities to be or not to be, is independent from their followers being dumb, immoral or intelligent.

Lol I wouldn't follow Islam if it were Somali, hell if I was fixated on worshiping a religion exclusive to Somalia I'd go and worship Waaq rn

Then whether the religion originated in Somalia or not is ultimately irrelevant. Don't be surprised ive seen many Somalis on the Waaq train who during the hightent climate of Anti-Arab , Islamophobia feel a sense of insufficiency so they rather be backwards in their thinking and go after pagan religion

Just because they lack culture information about their homeland . they join the Anti-Arab camp.

You keep banging on about god enough. Islam made me leave islam, I didn't just wake up one day and decide I wanted to wear a mini skirt therefore I'm not muslim anymore kulaha didn't agree with the life style. How patronizing

I do keep on banging on God that is the topic. If disagreement with the Islamic culture made you leave then simply state that. It's invalid to us ''Atheism'' the mere disbelief in God which is metaphysical as a cop out to explain why you left.

 

[Dhabaal]

Scared the big man up there will put you on his unfriend list? You are not an agnostic. You are just a doubting muslim, or just pretending to have doubts. Sad

I am not doubting Muslim. I am unsure of the concept of ''God'' which is definition of agnosticism and that is simply relegated to metaphysics. I have no doubts about the cultural practices of Muslims.

Do you even know the difference between metaphysics and ontology? Or do you and your radical secularist friends even read any book outside your narrow understanding.

The truly sad people here are you Atheists who are bunch of weaklings who use disbelief in God as cop out.

Weak minded people who reject themselves.

 

[McLovin]

I have no doubts about the cultural practices of Muslims.

f*ck does this even mean. Honestly
Who are you kidding boowe. You're about to miss Fajr pretending to be a murtad online

 

[The_Cosmos]

@Dhabaal

When have I made the claim that "because he's never seen god, he's an atheist."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnostic_atheism

"Agnostic atheists are atheistic because they do not hold a belief in the existence of any deity and agnostic because they claim that the existence of a deity is either unknowable in principle or currently unknown in fact."

That's my position.

 

[Lord Flacko]

Dressing like desert dwellers? giving children Arab names instead of Somali names? abandoning our own traditions in favour of their traditions, values and morals. The whole concept of following the sunnah of the nabi is basically arabisation. If something doesn't align with the Muslim way of life it's considered "bid'ah" and "backwards" and should forcibly be abandoned.

You're right no forced arabisation occurred to Somalis, we did it to our selves which is even more tragic



Adapt a set of laws and guidelines? Is that what you reduce it to Mate Islam is meant to govern every aspect of life.

The Levant was arabised along with most of the gulf and north Africa. It wasn't just the Berber regions. They tried it with Persia but failed, the only thing that stuck was the alphabet.

Aight then girl give me a in recorded history time when Somalis were, wore or did any of these

f*ck you want a nomad to dress in in the desert gyal

What traditions of our own did we abandon missus

What Somali morals and values were thrown out when them sand came
shit why we call them sand when we the niggas

Gurl ya ass wouldn't dare leave ur white country with the Starbucks and the skinny jeans and the yoga pants and the lingerie and the Atheism and the hot cocoa in the winter with ur white boo yet your tryna say OG Somalis lost their culture?






You a Sheegato nigga and u know it

 

[Dhabaal]

I'm just gonna quote my other post because it still applies

@Layth already replied to this false claim of islam equals Arabization

Islam doesn’t interfere with culture. “Arabisation” is literally a very recent phenomenon that has been initiated, perpetuated and funded by the oil-rich gulf countries. The only case of an historical incidence that can remotely be classed as “Arabisation” was when two tribes from the Arabian peninsula, namely Banu Sulaym & Hilal invaded North Africa and displaced the Berbers who were the original inhabitants. Even then, most of the Berbers who’ve decided to settle with the Arabian tribes, intermarry with them and adopt their language & culture did so out of their own will, it was not pervasively imposed on them. The evidence for this is that there are some Berbers today who still speak in the tongues of their ancestors and have their dhaqan.

I want you to logically explain to me how adopting a set of laws and guidelines erodes one’s culture because this did not happen when Persia, al-Sham, Andalus, India and other nations/lands were conquered by the early Muslims. Don’t give me no emotional mumbo jumbo, I want solid facts.

1. Giving Arabic names to your children is not an Islamic obligation. It’s common for people from all walks of life and beliefs to name their children after those they admire – in this case for us Muslims, it’s the Prophets (AS) and companions (RA).

2. It’s not an obligation to dress like an Arab either.

3. Bid’ah is only regarding that which is related to worship. Culture waa caadhi.

4. I don’t reduce Islam to anything. In fact, I cannot do it any justice even if I were to write a whole volume describing it.

5. A large number of the inhabitants of the Levant were Arab though, so it’s not a surprise that they had an impact on the culture. If you look at the Indian subcontinent and other regions that Islam reached, they still have their cultures and languages because if any Arab has settled among them, they were probably minorities as opposed to the Arabs in the Levant. On top of that, the Levantines were Semites and already had similar dhaqan to the Arabs prior to their conquests.

 

[Layth]

Ok, this got boring.

 

[Dhabaal]

@dhegdheer

Let me just expand upon it a little bit with my own words.

Many Somali pre-Islamic religious practices have been incorporated into the Islamic faith, not unlike how the pagan practices in Europe were incorporated into Christianity. The sky god Waaq’s characteristics are similar to those of Allah’s. Waaq was thought to have created man to fear and praise him. Genealogy played an important role in both pre-Islamic religion and Islam. When Islam spread throughout the Horn of Africa, indigenous clan founders transfigured into Islamic saints.

In otherwords we Somalinized Islam. Infact i would argue Islam was not as foreign in nature as many of people make it out be. If it was it would not have had gain such acceptance with Somalis in comparison. What part of communal pray is foreign to Somalis? Circumcission? Dowry was not introduced via Islam. Islam hugs a large constitutions of Somali values under one umbrella. Polygamy was not introduced by Islam, neither was the sexual modesty.

Some of Islam's habits can clearly been seen as coming from the mind of a desert dweller. i.e. all desert cultures have certain geographic sensitivities. (focus on camels and other realities unique to desert life). But this is a geographical cultural accommodation not a race or ethnic one. I.e. Nomads in Arabia and desert nomads in the Somalia have certain ways of dealing with their desert environment.

This didn't stop non desert cultures like the Turks in taking Islam and making it work for them and their geographical culture.

 

[The_Cosmos]

Aight then girl give me a in recorded history time when Somalis were, wore or did any of these

f*ck you want a nomad to dress in in the desert gyal

What traditions of our own did we abandon missus

What Somali morals and values were thrown out when them sand came
shit why we call them sand when we the niggas

Gurl ya ass wouldn't dare leave ur white country with the Starbucks and the skinny jeans and the yoga pants and the lingerie and the Atheism and the hot cocoa in the winter with ur white boo yet your tryna say OG Somalis lost their culture?






You a Sheegato nigga and u know it

Wait, are you the one that constantly blabs about the cultural, religious and linguistic similarities that we supposedly have with Arabs?!

Mate, you're a well known booty clapper and thus I do very much believe that you won't/can't tell the difference between authentic Somali culture and Arabian culture.

 

[Lord Flacko]

Wait, are you the one that constantly blabs about the cultural, religious and linguistic similarities that we supposedly have with Arabs?!

Mate, you're a well known booty clapper and thus I do very much believe that you won't can't tell the difference between authentic Somali culture and Arabian culture.

You're a sandnigger son


"wasn't u saying we share cultural, religious and linguistic similarities with the Arabs" well no fucking shit Einstein we
1. share cultural similarities to a degree don't get me twister
2. We both Muslim fagboy
3. We both speak Afro-Asiatic mother tounges and many Somalis speak Arabic + we have over 1500 Arabic loan words



Go sip starbucks with your cadaan friends over at reddit son or get a job and pay some of the rent lil 20 year old f*ck nigga living in mommas basement