Af-Jiido: My first time hearing this Eastern Cushitic Language in Somalia with 100k Speakers.

[CanoGeel]

I find Rendile to be more inteligible
I read somewhere it has different phonology and sentence structure from somali and may be closer to Hadiya .



Any one familiar?

@Balaayo , @CirkaIyoDhulka , @Apollo @Shimbiris

 

[CanoGeel]

Rendille in Kenya

 

[ladySomal206]

I find Rendile to be more inteligible
I read somewhere it has different phonology and sentence structure from somali and may be closer to Hadiya .



Any one familiar?

@Balaayo , @CirkaIyoDhulka , @Apollo @Shimbiris

I have never heard of it but it sounds Somali and oromo. I’m trying to understand it but can’t lol. But sounds like I should . Where do they reside? Thanks for sharing.

 

[Webb]

I find Rendile to be more inteligible
I read somewhere it has different phonology and sentence structure from somali and may be closer to Hadiya .



Any one familiar?

@Balaayo , @CirkaIyoDhulka , @Apollo @Shimbiris

Is there a video of it being spoken casually? I've listened to maxaa versions of that poem style, and they're not easy to understand either

 

[AdoonkaAlle]

Is there a video of it being spoken casually? I've listened to maxaa versions of that poem style, and they're not easy to understand either

Yh it was hard to understand from the gabay yio heesta, a part from a few words i couldn't follow what was being said compared to af rendille. Hadiya is deep inside ethiopia so it's hard to see how af jiido is similar to it.

 

[Apollo]

Fun fact: linguistically Af-Maay and Af-Maxaa are closer to each other than Af-Jiido is to Af-Maay.

 

[Shimbiris]

This is the structure of East Cushitic:

So your observation regarding Rendile is on point because Rendile is closer to Af-Maxaa. Bayso and Jiddu are the most divergent of the "Somali" group of languages. I remember a linguist telling me Af-Maay and Af-Maxaa diverged around 1,500ybp whereas Rendile and Af-Maxaa around 2,000ybp or a few hundred years earlier with, and I'm not too sure about this one, the divergence from Oromo being around 3,000ybp and, I'm sure about this one, East Cushitic unity goes back to about 4,000ybp.

 

[Grant]

This is the structure of East Cushitic:

View attachment 208762


So your observation regarding Rendile is on point because Rendile is closer to Af-Maxaa. Bayso and Jiddu are the most divergent of the "Somali" group of languages. I remember a linguist telling me Af-Maay and Af-Maxaa diverged around 1,500ybp whereas Rendile and Af-Maxaa around 2,000ybp or a few hundred years earlier with, and I'm not too sure about this one, the divergence from Oromo being around 3,000ybp and, I'm sure about this one, East Cushitic unity goes back to about 4,000ybp.

Cristopher Ehret ?

 

[CanoGeel]

Spoiler: Jiido

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Spoiler: Karbaash warning to those trying to claim Jiido land

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[Mujahid Nur Marehan]

Humans have been around for around 200 hundered thousand years. How come all of human languages split around 60 thousand years ago?

 

[CanoGeel]

Humans have been around for around 200 hundered thousand years. How come all of human languages split around 60 thousand years ago?

 

[Shimbiris]

Cristopher Ehret ?

Yes but he mentioned coming to these conclusions with the help of some Somali linguists whose names I've forgotten.

 

[Grant]

Yes but he mentioned coming to these conclusions with the help of some Somali linguists whose names I've forgotten.

Check appendix I of The Invention of Somalia by Ali Jimale Ahmed. Based on the linguistics Ehret says the Bayso and Jiddu migrated into Somalia from the Genale watershed; Rendille, Tunni, Geeliidle, Garee, Maay and Maxay migrated from the Dawo.

I am not persuaded by the Omotic argument. The Oromo stayed in Ethiopia for centuries. The proto Somalis could simply have moved through quickly, and not have assimilated any Omotics. It is known they arrived in Somalia long before the Oromo.
.

 

[Apollo]

Check appendix I of The Invention of Somalia by Ali Jimale Ahmed. Based on the linguistics Ehret says the Bayso and Jiddu migrated into Somalia from the Genale watershed; Rendille, Tunni, Geeliidle, Garee, Maay and Maxay migrated from the Dawo.

I am not persuaded by the Omotic argument. The Oromo stayed in Ethiopia for centuries. The proto Somalis could simply have moved through quickly, and not have assimilated any Omotics. It is known they arrived in Somalia long before the Oromo.
.

And what evidence is there for this? Literally none, it is some made up bullshit not backed up by either archeology nor genetics. In fact, it is wholly debunked by the latest genetic findings where it is clearly shown that Afars and North-Central Somalis have the least affinity to Omotic populations out of all populations in Ethiopia.

Lowland East Cushitic originated between the upper Awash river (Afar areas) and Hawd (Somali areas). It is not from highland Southern Ethiopia whatsoever.

The early Oromos were a Somali-like population that pushed into an Omotic dominant territory, not the other way around. For example, the Konso who speak an Oromo-like dialect are a bona fide Omotic population that simply language shifted to an early Oromo dialect. Very dubious to consider this area with lots of historic language shifting to be the source of anything.

The more likely scenario is simply that Jiidu people migrated from Somalia into Southern Ethiopia and birthed the Bayso. Similar to the Rendille having left Southern Somalia for Northern Kenya.

Lowland East Cushitic dispersals = Northern and Eastern urheimats with migrations Westwards and Southwards.

 

[Grant]

And what evidence is there for this? Literally none, it is some made up bullshit not backed up by either archeology nor genetics. In fact, it is wholly debunked by the latest genetic findings where it is clearly shown that Afars and North-Central Somalis have the least affinity to Omotic populations out of all populations in Ethiopia.

Lowland East Cushitic originated between the upper Awash river (Afar areas) and Hawd (Somali areas). It is not from highland Southern Ethiopia whatsoever.

The early Oromos were a Somali-like population that pushed into an Omotic dominant territory, not the other way around. For example, the Konso who speak an Oromo-like dialect are a bona fide Omotic population that simply language shifted to an early Oromo dialect. Very dubious to consider this area with lots of historic language shifting to be the source of anything.

The more likely scenario is simply that Jiidu people migrated from Somalia into Southern Ethiopia and birthed the Bayso. Similar to the Rendille having left Southern Somalia for Northern Kenya.

Lowland East Cushitic dispersal = Northern and Eastern urheimats with migrations Westwards and Southwards, not vice versa.

You are beating the Omotics with much too large a stick. Afars, etc. are Sudanic, and to the north where Omotic is not expected.
My theory is that the proto Somalis left the Sudan relatively late, passed up the White Nile and quickly crossed the highlands to settle in the Dawa and Genale watersheds, where they would have been isolated. Ehret places them there about 500 BC.
The only genetic information you have is that they were not Omotic, which my theory covers. The archaeological evidence will have to wait until it is done.

 

[Apollo]

You are beating the Omotics with much too large a stick. Afars, etc. are Sudanic, and to the north where Omotic is not expected.
My theory is that the proto Somalis left the Sudan relatively late, passed up the White Nile and quickly crossed the highlands to settle in the Dawa and Genale watersheds, where they would have been isolated. Ehret places them there about 500 BC.
The only genetic information you have is that they were not Omotic, which my theory covers. The archaeological evidence will have to wait until it is done.

It is crucial since it is a glaring genetic difference when you analyze the genomes of Sahos, Afars, Harar Oromos, and Somalis vs all the other LE-C speakers.

Rendille is proven to have migrated from Southern Somalia towards Marsabit in Northern Kenya. The same migration pattern could easily explain the presence of Bayso in Southwest Ethiopia.

The Marehan live in Gedo, but their tribe started in Northeastern Somalia. We have such clear cases based on recent oral history, a similar migration pattern can easily be true for most LE-C groups.

 

[Grant]

It is crucial since it is a glaring genetic difference when you analyze the genomes of Sahos, Afars, Harar Oromos, and Somalis vs all the other LE-C speakers.

Rendille is proven to have migrated from Southern Somalia towards Marsabit in Northern Kenya. The same migration pattern could easily explain the presence of Bayso in Southwest Ethiopia.

The Marehan live in Gedo, but their tribe started in Northeastern Somalia. We have such clear cases based on recent oral history, a similar migration pattern can easily be true for most LE-C groups.

The Marehan are recent immigrants to Gedo. It's the Gasaara Gude and the Gobroon segment of the Geledi that are native there.
In order to travel further south from southern Somalia, one must first get to southern Somalia. It is the route getting to southern Somalia that is critical, and the Genale/Dawa route that is the most direct and logical.
The Kushite capitals kept being driven south, with Meroe ending up between the Blue and White tributaries, not even on the Nile itself and nowhere near the Awash. It makes good sense that migrants out of the area would have continued up the tributaries.

 

[Apollo]

The Marehan are recent immigrants to Gedo. It's the Gasaara Gude and the Gobroon segment of the Geledi that are native there.
In order to travel further south from southern Somalia, one must first get to southern Somalia. It is the route getting to southern Somalia that is critical, and the Genale/Dawa route that is the most direct and logical.
The Kushite capitals kept being driven south, with Meroe ending up between the Blue and White tributaries, not even on the Nile itself and nowhere near the Awash. It makes good sense that migrants out of the area would have continued up the tributaries.

First of all, the name Cushitic and the Kingdom of Kush have little to do with it each other. It was just some random name that was picked by early linguists. The Cushitic language family is much older than any Nubian civilization.

Secondly, there is no archeological nor genetic evidence of Cushites passing through Southern Sudan whatsoever. In fact, native populations in Southern Sudan are less Eurasian than even Nigerians and have less Neanderthal affinity than them. They were extremely separated from Cushites.

The consensus among geneticists is that Cushites passed through Northeastern Sudan, then Eritrea, then Northern Ethiopia. The Lowland East Cushitic branch likely first emerged around the Awash river or around Harar-Hargeisa-Hawd area.

 

[Mujahid Nur Marehan]

So we migrated around 5 thousand years ago from North East Sudan. And we spread from Eastern Ethiopia.

 

[Apollo]

So we migrated around 5 thousand years ago from North East Sudan. And we spread from Eastern Ethiopia.

Yes, that is my theory and it is backed up by most data.

Somalis are 88-92% Northeast Sudanese from 3,000 BCE and the remainder is extinct types of various local Somali peninsula hunter-gatherers. Those hunter-gatherers split from Ethiopian ones between 20,000-15,000 years ago and were genetically distinct from them. They no longer exist today.