Agriculture land by country, Africa

[The Somali Caesar]

Speak for your self, My Ogaden ancestors left Sanaag to conquer lush green Jubbaland, Ogadeniya with 6 rivers and 1/3 of Kenya and the Fertile Kenyan river Tana

why do somalis act like somalis dont have good farm lands? tiny Holland region half the size of Nugaal produces more food that any place on earth except America, never mind rest of Netherlands,

Congo bigger than western Europe could supply food and water to the entire planet and their entire population is at constant war and chaos,

if you give Africans fertile France they would still fail to produce food. when was the last time somalis fished the longest african coast? farmajo sold somali fishing rights to china for $1 million,

the global fish market is $460 Billion, farmajo could have export 1% of that and funded somalia and her army instead of begging for aid lol and wiped out kawarij

face it dude, its culture of the African race,

Good for you I suppose. But walaalo I'm thinking in the big picture about how Bantus have way more fertile land than us.

We have our internal issues like you mentioned but I firmly believe we would be a regional powerhouse if we had the areas that Bantu occupy.

But we can agree to disagree

 

[The Somali Caesar]

Somalia is actually has one of the most advantageous geographies , its not a desert it has extensive farmland that can grow a variety of crops & support surplus production and vast grazing ranges/pastures that can sustain a livestock population of various kinds.

Somalia's Historical Geographical Advantages over Sub-Saharan Africa: (Summary) Part 1

I was asked to make this one last thread that i had planned, before i exit. I shared this video to @Midas in another thread, but then i came to realize that many of the setbacks and geographical disadvantages underscored in this video for Sub-Saharan Africa does not apply to Somalia at all...

www.somalispot.com

Other Africans like Bantus had it rough because of the lack of pastures for grazing, draft animals and testy flies that prevented it and thick jungles made it hard for them to produce surplus crops and made them isolated from eachother into seperate tribes confined to pockets of small locations.





I mean why would do you thinks Somalis expand into into the fertile plains of Awash, the shabelle zones, mountains/highlands and Juba-Tana. But not go further south ? The answer is pretty obvious when you look at that map of Tetsy fly distribution.

Somalia was unlike the rest of Sub-Saharan Africa, on the other hand was a place that exported food and had a surplus agricultural production that sustained local villages, towns and cities.

Maybe I just envy that most of our land not all is semi arid while Bantus have more rainfall and more lush greens than us.

I'm not belittling our land but I just had an instant what if moment that's all walaalo

 

[Sputnikaa]

Good for you I suppose. But walaalo I'm thinking in the big picture about how Bantus have way more fertile land than us.

We have our internal issues like you mentioned but I firmly believe we would be a regional powerhouse if we had the areas that Bantu occupy.

But we can agree to disagree

I am genuinely disappointed with Africans in general, we Somalis are the worst by the way, civil war that started in 1982

Africans has 70% of untouched virgin farm land yet dont feed themselves, i really doubt if somalis would do better, as a race Somalis dont farm or fish and more land would mean just wasting it

Africans need to be colonised for another 200 years and taught how to do civil society policy

Look at Puntland and Somalialnd, peace for decades, what have they don with it? still reliant on aid and NGOs, Gaza was more developed in oct 20023 than Somaliland or Puntland and both diss the south for chaos yet what have they produced in terms of economic development in 30 years of peace? nada, zero

Ahmed madobe wanted to hire 24 permanent Agasimo secretaries in Jubbaland, 500 students did the exam, only Ogadens passed, the Majeerteens, Marehan, Shekhaal etc all failed and demanded madoobe shares the job 4.5 kkkk, he did, he gave the Ogadens 50% when they protested,

1 year later all the Majeerteen, Marehan , shekhaal etc could not do the job well thanks to affirmative actions, they had to give the Ogadens all 24 positions as reality set it the Majeerteen and Marehan could not read

this is the issue we have, 4.5 mentality in somalis, if you gave somalis the entire world most clans will not person well economically.

No nation has ever developed with out 80% literacy rate, teach somalis to read, School kids in Puntland and Somaliland are taught by Ogaden teachers from Garissa, because average Puntland and Somaliland teachers is useless die to low education level

 

[Idilinaa]

Maybe I just envy that most of our land not all is semi arid while Bantus have more rainfall and more lush greens than us.

I'm not belittling our land but I just had an instant what if moment that's all walaalo

Most of Somalia is green and lush, it mostly made up of grassland, woodlands, forests, seasonal streams, lakes, waterfalls and oasis. It's only lands near and surounding the coast that is naturally dry but the interior regions where the famland and grazing land is mostly not.

Valleys


The forests and woodlands




The green watered mountains they would seasonally take their herds to.


Somalia doesn't lack rainfall, it received sufficient rainfall in many parts of the country that would in most places seasonally replenish areas.

Bantus and other Africans on the other hand struggled with seasonal droughts, unreliable water sources, or swampy overflows.

Somalia’s rivers, seasonal streams, lakes and groundwater reservoirs ensured long-term productivity.

 

[Vacelere]

No point since we're Nomads we used Bantus to do our farming work for us historically. They should do it. Farming is shameful in geeljire culture

Which I think it's a sick mentality.

I believe with somalia modernizing the nomad life will be a laangab one and the true food makers will be the farmers.

And who control people food will eventually control them.

 

[Idilinaa]

Most of Somalia is green and lush, it mostly made up of grassland, woodlands, forests, seasonal streams, lakes, waterfalls and oasis. It's only lands near and surounding the coast that is naturally dry but the interior regions where the famland and grazing land is mostly not.



Somalia didn't lack rainfall, it received sufficient rainfall in many parts of the country that would in most places seasonally replenish areas.

Bantus and other Africans on the other hand struggled with seasonal droughts, unreliable water sources, or swampy overflows.

Somalia’s rivers, seasonal streams, lakes and groundwater reservoirs ensured long-term productivity.

Explained this a bit in a different thread, but i figured it would be educational to share this again for onlookers.

The purple coloured areas in the Somali peninsula are called the Somali acaci–commiphora bushlands and thickets. It's an ecoregion mostly made up of tropical grasslands, savannas, and shrublands.

That purple makes it rich with vegetation throughout

And it's these green grass and woodlands that help sustain large livestock populations of different types horses , cows, camels, sheep/goats, donkeys etc



What i showed above is the grazing ranges in the northern parts of the country.

The riverrine regions where the largest farmlands exist in the south-central look more like this

 

[Idilinaa]

Which I think it's a sick mentality.

I believe with somalia modernizing the nomad life will be a laangab one and the true food makers will be the farmers.

And who control people food will eventually control them.

Keep telling @Shimbiris people that exist on this forum are not normal in the head. Despite the fact that he wants to give yall the benefit of the doubt. I don't know if its the susceptibility to misinformation or the instense grugde or just the world interweb that attracts trolls with personality disorders and identity problems.

There is no nomad life, but pastoralism however (Livestock herding) will be the most relevant thing going forward as a lot are doing increasingly now already by building controlled ranges to graze their livestock and the livestock will be processed into both food and industrial products.

It's not going to be any different from the ''Ranches'' you see across Europe, Canada and America. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranch

Believe it or not most land anywhere is not arable land, its actually marginal land that is suitible for grazing animal. You can read more about the difference if you follow this link

Cattle and Land Use: The Differences between Arable Land and Marginal Land and How Cattle Use Each

Simply put, land use refers to how we use the land. It represents the economic and cultural activities such as agricultural, residential, industrial, mining and recreational use with respect to human activity and is an important consideration when discussing the sustainability of the foods we eat.

clear.ucdavis.edu

Cattle production cycle

Livestock will be far more sustainable food source and income than agriculture, it will give a lot more steady source of food supply in forms of meat , butter, cheese and milk. In fact farming will be secondary to this.

And you can make many different industrial products from it as well.

 

[Shimbiris]

Keep telling @Shimbiris people that exist on this forum are not normal in the head. Despite the fact that he wants to give yall the benefit of the doubt. I don't know if its the susceptibility to misinformation or the instense grugde or just the world interweb that attracts trolls with personality disorders.

There is no nomad life, but pastoralism however (Livestock herding) will be the most relevant thing going forward as a lot are doing increasingly now already by building controlled ranges to graze their livestock and the livestock will be processed into both food and industrial products.

It's not going to be any different from the ''Ranches'' you see across Europe, Canada and America. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranch
View attachment 357010

Believe it or not most land anywhere is not arable land, its actually marginal land that is suitible for grazing animal. You can read more about the difference if you follow this link

Cattle and Land Use: The Differences between Arable Land and Marginal Land and How Cattle Use Each

Simply put, land use refers to how we use the land. It represents the economic and cultural activities such as agricultural, residential, industrial, mining and recreational use with respect to human activity and is an important consideration when discussing the sustainability of the foods we eat.

clear.ucdavis.edu

Cattle production cycle
View attachment 357012

Livestock will be far more sustainable food source and income than agriculture, it will give a lot more steady source of food supply in forms of meat , butter, cheese and milk. In fact farming will be secondary to this.
View attachment 357011

And you can make many different industrial products from it as well.
View attachment 357009

I see you are familiar with the work of Professor Frank Mitloehner over at UC Davis. Biggest agricultural uni department in the USA. I was surprised too to learn just how much of the world's "agricultural land" is actually marginal land. Like 2/3rds? Even in the USA.

Then when you factor out fossil fuel based fertilizers the main industrial ag fertilizer comes from livestock. Somalia absolutely has to apply techniques like regenerative grazing and make a shift heavily toward modern rotational grazing based ranching. Cowboy and Camelboy country, inshallah.

 

[Afar indhood]

Good thread.
I would like to add:
-farming, owning a cattle and fishing is indeed considered shameful among my hirshabelle qabiil despite us doing all three occasionally.
-RW who live in Xamar tend to be *more* ethnically distinct from other Somalis. They have more J-weyne features, for example. And many of the somalid ones claim to be originally from other clans.

@Idilinaa you can't just keep quoting cadaans from the 1800s and ignore facts on the ground that we can observe.

 

[Idilinaa]

Good thread.
I would like to add:
-farming, owning a cattle and fishing is indeed considered shameful among my hirshabelle qabiil despite us doing all three occasionally.
-RW who live in Xamar tend to be *more* ethnically distinct from other Somalis. They have more J-weyne features, for example. And many of the somalid ones claim to be originally from other clans.

@Idilinaa you can't just keep quoting cadaans from the 1800s and ignore facts on the ground that we can observe.

It's beyond me how yall waste your days trolling like this and circle jerking with deliberate nonsense peddling.

4 of the texts i quoted was from Somali scholars and the cadaan quotes you mentioned are literally people who went to the region directly and described what they saw in the early-mid 1800s. Hawiye, Darood, Bimaal engaged in farming and owned farmlands whilst a section of them elsewhere engaged in herding.

And yeah you can go directly to Somalia today and see it for yourself, i even linked 3 video that show it.

Raxanweyn don't live in any significant number in Xamar tbh , even before the civil war outside of the Tunnis in Barawa they were mostly confined to rural areas or to interior towns like Baidoa, Afgooye and Buurgabo etc (Bay, Bakool and Lower Shabelle).

 

[Idilinaa]

I see you are familiar with the work of Professor Frank Mitloehner over at UC Davis. Biggest agricultural uni department in the USA. I was surprised too to learn just how much of the world's "agricultural land" is actually marginal land. Like 2/3rds? Even in the USA. Then when you factor out fossil fuel based fertilizers the main industrial ag fertilizer comes from livestock.

I actually learned about it whilst watching someone debate a vegan and they referred to a video lecture about it. Explaining how cattle don't actually take up most of the farmland or consume feed meant for humans. Most land is marginal land only suitible for grazing and most cattle either live on grass or consume inedible by-product feed.

Somalia absolutely has to apply techniques like regenerative grazing and make a shift heavily toward modern rotational grazing based ranching. Cowboy and Camelboy country, inshallah.

Camelboy lmaao me on horseback driving the flocks of camels, cows etc down the hill tops whilst wearing a duub instead of a cowboy hat and a tusbax in one hand and with my trusted hangool in another.

I can picture that.

 

[Afar indhood]

It's beyond me how yall waste your days trolling like this and circle jerking with deliberate nonsense peddling.

4 of the texts i quoted was from Somali scholars and the cadaan quotes you mentioned are literally people who went to the region directly and described what they saw in the early-mid 1800s. Hawiye, Darood, Bimaal engaged in farming and owned farmlands whilst a section of them elsewhere engaged in herding.

And yeah you can go directly to Somalia today and see it for yourself, i even linked 3 video that show it.

Raxanweyn don't live in any significant number in Xamar tbh , even before the civil war outside of the Tunnis in Barawa they were mostly confined to rural areas or to interior towns like Baidoa, Afgooye and Buurgabo etc (Bay, Bakool and Lower Shabelle).

I wasn't trolling, abaayo. I was disagreeing.
I don't need to go to Somalia. I already live there. Sorry, but sometimes growing up in a place and experiencing it firsthand from birth to adulthood cuptures the essence of life better than scholarly texts - even when written by Faaraxs.
While Hawiye and Darod engaged in agriculture, they were primarily herders (hence my argument: in Shabeelles, farming/fishing is outside traditional clan lifestyle, and thus associated with shame). On the other hand, Biyomaal, RW and other clans that traditionally inhabited these places did indeed practice farming and hunting more than herding. It was Kacaan government that expanded the farming and even facilitated large scale migrations there. More recently, Puntland, Galmudug, and Somaliland have begun engaging in farming in areas that were traditionally grazing lands. My point is that, outside of certain clans, farming was generally shunned, looked down upon, and not widely practiced by most people north of Xamar.
Also, RW still live in Xamar in significant number - despite many of them leaving after 2006/2007. Yes, it's not their "traditional" home but a lot of them came after '91.

 

[gasara]

I wasn't trolling, abaayo. I was disagreeing.
I don't need to go to Somalia. I already live there. Sorry, but sometimes growing up in a place and experiencing it firsthand from birth to adulthood cuptures the essence of life better than scholarly texts - even when written by Faaraxs.
While Hawiye and Darod engaged in agriculture, they were primarily herders (hence my argument: in Shabeelles, farming/fishing is outside traditional clan lifestyle, and thus associated with shame). On the other hand, Biyomaal, RW and other clans that traditionally inhabited these places did indeed practice farming and hunting more than herding. It was Kacaan government that expanded the farming and even facilitated large scale migrations there. More recently, Puntland, Galmudug, and Somaliland have begun engaging in farming in areas that were traditionally grazing lands. My point is that, outside of certain clans, farming was generally shunned, looked down upon, and not widely practiced by most people north of Xamar.
Also, RW still live in Xamar in significant number - despite many of them leaving after 2006/2007. Yes, it's not their "traditional" home but a lot of them came after '91.

Isn't it too broad to refer to those clans and then say the primarily herded over farming. Because if you go through the clans within them and the sub sub clans you will find farmers. I know so many families who have been farming for many centuries. Heck when I was there they were still participating in it. How else would they feed their families ? Or how would they trade or even earn money. They've built cities and homes through farming. Have you ever went to cities/regions besides your own to come to such a conclusion? We all aren't a monolith.

 

[Aurelian]

Wallahi, @The alchemist and @Idilinaa are two posters where when they drop long posts I bookmark and ready myself for this later:

Too bad they don't always get along, wallahi.

This thread is great, I love their posts.

 

[Idilinaa]

I wasn't trolling, abaayo. I was disagreeing.
I don't need to go to Somalia. I already live there. Sorry, but sometimes growing up in a place and experiencing it firsthand from birth to adulthood cuptures the essence of life better than scholarly texts - even when written by Faaraxs.
While Hawiye and Darod engaged in agriculture, they were primarily herders (hence my argument: in Shabeelles, farming/fishing is outside traditional clan lifestyle, and thus associated with shame). On the other hand, Biyomaal, RW and other clans that traditionally inhabited these places did indeed practice farming and hunting more than herding. It was Kacaan government that expanded the farming and even facilitated large scale migrations there. More recently, Puntland, Galmudug, and Somaliland have begun engaging in farming in areas that were traditionally grazing lands. My point is that, outside of certain clans, farming was generally shunned, looked down upon, and not widely practiced by most people north of Xamar.

You should put this energy into fighting your imaginary shamefulness in owning cattle, farming and fishing. Mr.Hirsharbelle larper. Btw Hirshabelle is not a qabil it's a regional name just like Bay , Bakool etc

The type of economic activity any Somali clan engaged in depends on the land they settled into, whole sections of their clans settled into both arable and marginal land and the clans you mentioned Hawiye, Darood etc didn't just do agriculture only they combined it with herding same as RW, even they settled into a arable areas. Hawiye actually has more members that engaged in farming in higher numbers than Bimaal but they also had a wider dispersal as they covered larger area since they are a bigger clan family.

And i have to mention this just to paint the real reality because this whole talk about farming over-emphasizes it and ignores how historically pastoralism/herding was superior to it and pastoralists were wealthier, adaptable and flexible than the one who relied on solely farming.

They had overall higher welfare and higher purchasing power than those who solely relied on crop farming, this is shown in a study by Jamal in the 80s.

This is because of 2 reasons. First when drought happens, or poor harvesting season, flooding where the crops and soil go bad they can live off and sustain themselves with cattle/livestock. Which made them less vulnerable to environment shocks and more food secure on average. If they had a preference for herding over farming it was purely because it was more sustainable in the long run.

Historically this is actually why Somalis even when they farmed they at the same time kept large herds of animals as an insurance and suplementation, i.e agro-pastoralism.

Second reason is because pastoralist products like meat, milk, hide , butter and animals in general etc fetched higher prices in the markets than grains/crops being sold.

There is a chart (that i can't find right now) by the same author that shows that income and wealth difference between the pastoralist was 2 twice that of a farmer.

Livestock was truly an economic engine in many ways and a back bone. It was a store of wealth, a form of currency, and a high-value trade commodity.

Also, RW still live in Xamar in significant number - despite many of them leaving after 2006/2007. Yes, it's not their "traditional" home but a lot of them came after '91.

Raxanweyn live in Xamar in significant numbers? Can you tell me what sub clan? Aside from the resettlement of a handful of displaced people and businessmen, i am not really aware if there is a significant number of them.
But then again Xamar is the most populous cosmpolitan city in Somalia that attracts and is home to all Somali clan families.

 

[𐒋𐒖𐒆𐒔𐒖𐒕𐒈]

No bigger than the State of Maryland (US), yet the Dutch is the 2nd largest exporter of agriculture products. How is that possible? Precision farming / agriculture. And now with robotics and drone technology, it is even more precise.

This Tiny Country Feeds the World

Almost two decades ago, the Dutch made a national commitment to sustainable agriculture under the rallying cry “Twice as much food using half as many resources.” Since 2000, van den Borne and many of his fellow farmers have reduced dependence on water for key crops by as much as 90 percent. They’ve almost completely eliminated the use of chemical pesticides on plants in greenhouses, and since 2009 Dutch poultry and livestock producers have cut their use of antibiotics by as much as 60 percent.

How the Netherlands Feeds the World

The Netherlands has become an agricultural giant by showing what the future of farming could look like.

www.nationalgeographic.com

Postscript:

Wageningen University & Research​

​

a) Designing precision livestock farming system innovations: A farmer perspective​

https://research.wur.nl/en/publications/designing-precision-livestock-farming-system-innovations-a-farmer

​

b) Precision Agriculture: Modelling​

https://research.wur.nl/en/publications/precision-agriculture-modelling

 

[Afar indhood]

Isn't it too broad to refer to those clans and then say the primarily herded over farming. Because if you go through the clans within them and the sub sub clans you will find farmers. I know so many families who have been farming for many centuries. Heck when I was there they were still participating in it. How else would they feed their families ? Or how would they trade or even earn money. They've built cities and homes through farming. Have you ever went to cities/regions besides your own to come to such a conclusion? We all aren't a monolith.

Yes, but only because I was speaking in broad terms.
Sure, some subclans engaged in farming more than others. I am not disputing that.
But my point remains: farming *was* not the primary way of life and was, therefore, looked down upon.

Now, tell me what crops have we used to build these cities? And where exactly are these cities you speak of?

You should put this energy into fighting your imaginary shamefulness in owning cattle, farming and fishing. Mr.Hirsharbelle larper. Btw Hirshabelle is not a qabil it's a regional name just like Bay , Bakool etc

The type of economic activity any Somali clan engaged in depends on the land they settled into, whole sections of their clans settled into both arable and marginal land and the clans you mentioned Hawiye, Darood etc didn't just do agriculture only they combined it with herding same as RW, even they settled into a arable areas. Hawiye actually has more members that engaged in farming in higher numbers than Bimaal but they also had a wider dispersal as they covered larger area since they are a bigger clan family.

And i have to mention this just to paint the real reality because this whole talk about farming over-emphasizes it and ignores how historically pastoralism/herding was superior to it and pastoralists were wealthier, adaptable and flexible than the one who relied on solely farming.

They had overall higher welfare and higher purchasing power than those who solely relied on crop farming, this is shown in a study by Jamal in the 80s.
View attachment 357024

This is because of 2 reasons. First when drought happens, or poor harvesting season, flooding where the crops and soil go bad they can live off and sustain themselves with cattle/livestock. Which made them less vulnerable to environment shocks and more food secure on average. If they had a preference for herding over farming it was purely because it was more sustainable in the long run.

Historically this is actually why Somalis even when they farmed they at the same time kept large herds of animals as an insurance and suplementation, i.e agro-pastoralism.

Second reason is because pastoralist products like meat, milk, hide , butter and animals in general etc fetched higher prices in the markets than grains/crops being sold.

There is a chart (that i can't find right now) by the same author that shows that income and wealth difference between the pastoralist was 2 twice that of a farmer.

Livestock was truly an economic engine in many ways and a back bone. It was a store of wealth, a form of currency, and a high-value trade commodity.



Raxanweyn live in Xamar in significant numbers? Can you tell me what sub clan? Aside from the resettlement of a handful of displaced people and businessmen, i am not really aware if there is a significant number of them.
But then again Xamar is the most populous cosmpolitan city in Somalia that attracts and is home to all Somali clan families.

Man, you are fight-y. How did you reach the conclusion that I'm a larper?
I personally don't feel shame (I think). Lkn, in dadka isku caayaan kalluumaysiga iyo lo'da and farming is common knowledge among us, actual hirshabelle people (we exist! It's not just a name).

Biyomaal live south of Banaadir and are/were mainly farmers. People north of Xamar mainly kept livestock and did some farming. Maxaan ku murmeynaa, hadda?
Lo'leey maa tahay? Don't worry, waan kula ahay! (BTW that term is used affectionately/pejoratively among hirshabelle people but it shouldn't bother you since you are not from there).

RW started moving in massively after the Civil War and continued to pour in. They were the second largest qabiil here. We don't actually ask them about subs and we never call them Raxanweyn, either.

Cheers.

 

[Idilinaa]

Yes, but only because I was speaking in broad terms.
Sure, some subclans engaged in farming more than others. I am not disputing that.
But my point remains: farming *was* not the primary way of life and was, therefore, looked down upon.

Now, tell me what crops have we used to build these cities? And where exactly are these cities you speak of?


Man, you are fight-y. How did you reach the conclusion that I'm a larper?
I personally don't feel shame (I think). Lkn, in dadka isku caayaan kalluumaysiga iyo lo'da and farming is common knowledge among us, actual hirshabelle people (we exist! It's not just a name).

Biyomaal live south of Banaadir and are/were mainly farmers. People north of Xamar mainly kept livestock and did some farming. Maxaan ku murmeynaa, hadda?
Lo'leey maa tahay? Don't worry, waan kula ahay! (BTW that term is used affectionately/pejoratively among hirshabelle people but it shouldn't bother you since you are not from there).

RW started moving in massively after the Civil War and continued to pour in. They were the second largest qabiil here. We don't actually ask them about subs and we never call them Raxanweyn, either.

Cheers.

Thats not true , Biyomaal lived across a strip of land that extended from the fertile river bank to the semi-arid coastal dunes. It was separated into arable portions of lands and non arable portions of lands , so not all of them were farmers.

It was similar for Hawiye clans as well, but they had a larger piece of the arable lands extending into both middle and upper shabelle river banks and whilst other hawiye sub clans extended to central grazing plains to the semi-arid coastal dunes.

That's why i say you sound like a troll larper that pretends to know stuff about those regions and it's people. What mode of economic activity they engaged in had to with what type of land they inhabited.