Anarchism in Somalia

[Zak12]

Ethiopia was attempting to oppress Ogaden and wanted to annex more Somali territories, going as far as claiming it in front of the UN.

Siad Barre actually tried to negotiate with them multiple times on a better deal and more autonomy for the region to no avail. Infact the government was not keen on going to war for Ogaden and concentrated heavily on domestic affairs.

“𝘛𝘩𝘦 𝘌𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘰𝘱𝘪𝘢𝘯 𝘤𝘰𝘶𝘱 𝘪𝘯 1974 𝘸𝘢𝘴 𝘢𝘵 𝘧𝘪𝘳𝘴𝘵 𝘸𝘦𝘭𝘤𝘰𝘮𝘦𝘥 𝘣𝘺 𝘚𝘪𝘢𝘥 𝘸𝘩𝘰 𝘧𝘦𝘭𝘵 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘯𝘦𝘸-𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘴𝘦𝘦𝘮𝘪𝘯𝘨𝘭𝘺 𝘭𝘪𝘬𝘦-𝘮𝘪𝘯𝘥𝘦𝘥-𝘳𝘦𝘨𝘪𝘮𝘦 𝘸𝘰𝘶𝘭𝘥 𝘣𝘦 𝘸𝘪𝘭𝘭𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘵𝘰 𝘩𝘰𝘭𝘥 𝘵𝘢𝘭𝘬𝘴 𝘰𝘯 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘖𝘨𝘢𝘥𝘦𝘯. 𝘏𝘪𝘴 𝘦𝘯𝘵𝘩𝘶𝘴𝘪𝘢𝘴𝘮 𝘲𝘶𝘪𝘤𝘬𝘭𝘺 𝘥𝘢𝘮𝘱𝘦𝘯𝘦𝘥, 𝘩𝘰𝘸𝘦𝘷𝘦𝘳, 𝘢𝘴 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘯𝘢𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯𝘢𝘭𝘪𝘴𝘵𝘪𝘤 𝘣𝘦𝘯𝘵 𝘰𝘧 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘌𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘰𝘱𝘪𝘢𝘯 𝘳𝘦𝘨𝘪𝘮𝘦 𝘣𝘦𝘤𝘢𝘮𝘦 𝘦𝘷𝘪𝘥𝘦𝘯𝘵”.
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We spoke a bit about this in another thread: you can check that out there is twitter thread that goes into what led up to the Ogaden war.



Heck when Abyi Ahmed proposed a new direction and cooperation, guess who extended their arm in support of it, it was Eritrea and Somalia, only for him turn around and betray that by his threats to claim sea access. Heck people in Ogaden put down their arms in exchange for more freedom and self governance as region in Ethiopia and you can see that they had no expansionist aspirations and wanted to focus on developing their region with full cooperation. While the Ethiopian groups like Amhara, Oromo and Tigray are fighting for the right to rule over other people and are genociding eachother and Abyi Ahmed is fighting to extend an Oromo dominance as his high ranking officials have come out to claim.

Eritrea and Somalia were cursed with the worst neighbor in human existence. Ethiopia continue to play a role of destabilizing Somalia while raging a war against their own people.
It's all the more problematic when you realize how much of this is rooted in a continuing historical trend and ideology.

"The army had been soundly defeated by Ethiopia in 1964"

Didn't both sides claim victory here?

 

[Idilinaa]

"The army had been soundly defeated by Ethiopia in 1964"

Didn't both sides claim victory here?

They did but the Kacaan admin that took over in 1969 saw it as a loss, when in reality Ethiopia was actually forced into a seize fire and was humiliated by a newly formed Somali army that was not aiming to take back Ogaden but only protect it's borders.

Their perfomance was so bad in that war that they called in Isreal to train them in case of future battles.

 

[Galool]

If i were to sum up our downfall , it is the situation we were born into. We were born as an Islamic state connected to the middle eastern political and cultural core , that has traditional been seen as ideological opponents of the west and with a hostile genocidal Christian enemy nation that has been an ally of the west and a colonial puppet extension of it.
The eastern countries we are geo-politcally connected to are not very useful allies and have compromised leadership.

That's really what it all boils down to. It's not about which systems we use or our incapability of building functional government.

JazakAllah khayr sister!

This is the simple fact that a lot of Somalis especially on this forum still fail to grasp.

They go around in circles repeating UN or western government propaganda about what went wrong and continue going around in circles in confusion.

The simple fact is Somalia, like some other Muslim countries has been targeted for destruction and is kept weak and divided as a matter of policy by western countries and the zionists using many of its puppets. You can see some parallels in other Muslim nations.

In fact Somalia specifically with only a couple others has been attacked the most.

It should come as no surprise as a Muslim as Allah SWT revealed shaytaan and the kuffars hatred for Islam and Muslims to us long ago. Studying history and current/recent events make this abundantly clear.

I really do appreciate your informative posts about history and politics, you are one of the best posters on the forum sister jazakAllah khayr!

 

[Idilinaa]

JazakAllah khayr sister!

This is the simple fact that a lot of Somalis especially on this forum still fail to grasp.

They go around in circles repeating UN or western government propaganda about what went wrong and continue going around in circles in confusion.

The simple fact is Somalia, like some other Muslim countries has been targeted for destruction and is kept weak and divided as a matter of policy by western countries and the zionists using many of its puppets. You can see some parallels in other Muslim nations.

In fact Somalia specifically with only a couple others has been attacked the most.

It should come as no surprise as a Muslim as Allah SWT revealed shaytaan and the kuffars hatred for Islam and Muslims to us long ago. Studying history and current/recent events make this abundantly clear.

I really do appreciate your informative posts about history and politics, you are one of the best posters on the forum sister jazakAllah khayr!

I remember that video saw it long time ago, thank you for reminding me. It will come in handy.
@EritreanPost_ This post covers Melez Zenawi that bug of a man's efforts to destabilize Somalia and keep it weakened:

Read this study it breaks down US involvement and destabilizing efforts in Somalia and helping to aid in it's destruction: They did exactly as that US General said.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/03063968231155358

The United states even launched Economic Warfare on Somalia:

The waged physical and ideological warefare on Somalia in service of Ethiopia

 

[Galool]

I remember that video saw it long time ago, thank you for reminding me. It will come in handy.
@EritreanPost_ This post covers Melez Zenawi that bug of a man's efforts to destabilize Somalia and keep it weakened:

Read this study it breaks down US involvement and destabilizing efforts in Somalia and helping to aid in it's destruction: They did exactly as that US General said.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/03063968231155358

The United states even launched Economic Warfare on Somalia:

The waged physical and ideological warefare on Somalia in service of Ethiopia

Yes, I recently watched this video on the era of CIA backed warlords fighting the Islamic Courts. They lost and had no support, everyone knew they were working for the west. It is very informative.

 

[momohaji]

What about Anarcho-Capitalism? Libertarianism? We need economic and political change to make it more easier for our people to start businesses and compete in Africa, us Somalis are always the top business people in all other countries but Somalia.

 

[Idilinaa]

What about Anarcho-Capitalism? Libertarianism? We need economic and political change to make it more easier for our people to start businesses and compete in Africa, us Somalis are always the top business people in all other countries but Somalia.

I apologize walaal. I hijacked your thread. You are talking about anarchism as political-economic philosophy. Not ''Anarchy'' as a term to explain our current division and turmoil. I misunderstood you.

I think you are somewhat right, Somalia and Somali culture was a society driven by free-market capitalism. Even in Somalia that business driven aspect holds true. We can see h But i don't think liberterianism will work, it will create private wealth concentration that distorts politics, this was a problem in the first Somali regime. You see be an issue in the United States where powerful lobby groups control government and in Russia which is essentially an oligarchy.The wealthy will not champion a truly free market.

The rich and powerful will change the whole system to benefit them. You always get more profits from monopoly than in a free market. It is hence in the interest of the rich to limit and subvert the free market. Thus a truly free market system cannot survive in a thoroughly unequal society. Rather we end up with crony capitalism.

It's easier to maintain a free-market when there is ''Wealth distribution'', because consumers which represent those who truly benefit from free market competition will have the political power to maintain this system. They will have this power because redistribution mechanism will make sure they don’t lose so much income and wealth as to also loose political influence.

I don't know enough about anarcho-capitalism to speak on it but if it's like Libertarianism that won't work either.

 

[Idilinaa]

Also traitors and internal tensions are not unique to Somalia. Every single country on earth has it.

In a different thread i gave examples of the Norwegian anti-government dissident that bombed a political party headquarters and killed 70 people in political camp on an Island.
There is many of those types of extremist elements in their societies. As well as corrupt politicians that are booted from their posts

Another example is America not only with their various anti-govt militia groups, but also how they did an insurrection and stormed the capital. Same thing here there are corrupt traitor politicians within America , that would comprimise american interests in heartbeat and are routinely booted out or made to resign.

In Australia you have various politicians that are comprimised by China and act on behalf of their interests. And have massive problem with Anti-government extremism:

In recent memories that there has been UK riots where people attacked the public , destroyed business and properties. They have organized movements and groups behind them. Politicians even that supported their carnage.
In Kenya they rioted and destroyed public property and businesses but they also stormed the government capital.

In Singapore there was various bombings and anti-govt subversions throughout the 60s and 70s.

MacDonald House bombing - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Now imagine if those countries had a lunatic enemy nation next door as a neighbor, who exploited their western allied ties to arm those various dissidents and traitors to make war and invited them in and hosted them?

I remember that video saw it long time ago, thank you for reminding me. It will come in handy.
@EritreanPost_ This post covers Melez Zenawi that bug of a man's efforts to destabilize Somalia and keep it weakened:

@Spongebob @Zak12

 

[Galool]

@Spongebob @Zak12

The US used to pay war lords and back them to carry out their kill lists. This was after the invasion. They also had their own mercenaries on the ground and still do until today. I remember seeing it in the movie dirty wars where he covers the covert operations US mercenaries were carrying out in Muslims countries. They would abduct people and fly them out to black sites in Djibouti and onto ships in the sea.

 

[hayran]

We already experienced anarchism in 91

depends on what OP means by anarchism

if he means anarcho-capitalism then no, as that requires the respect of property rights at a societal level. libertarian capitalism is quite sound

if he means the ideology that mentally ill drug addicted sexual deviants on xitter subscribe to to, then it's a hell motherfucking no from me

 

[Galool]

@Idilinaa I remember this sad case about Mahdi Hashi, this was an insane era of impunity. He was finally freed in 2020.

 

[Idilinaa]

@Idilinaa I remember this sad case about Mahdi Hashi, this was an insane era of impunity. He was finally freed in 2020.

Thats insane. I remember that picture in the middle tweet floating about on the web.

Madhi Hashi had long been known to the intelligence services, but not necessarily because he’d done anything wrong. Britain’s domestic security service, MI5, had been trying to recruit the young Somali-British Muslim as an informer since he was a teenager, he says.

In May 2009, Hashi and four others went to the media with their allegations that MI5 agents told them they’d be detained in the UK or overseas for terrorism offences unless they cooperated with the agency.

Hashi said MI5 wanted him to inform on members of the Somali community in London and encourage them to talk about jihad, on the presumption some of them might be planning to work with Al-Shabaab.

You can expect more stuff will come out as documents are being de-classified. Imagine how many more others was implicating in stuff they had no involvement in.

 

[Midas]

@Spongebob @Zak12

Wallabhi this and your earlier posts are so depressing. It's crazy how we've been consistently targeted for decades. I honestly can think of any country as small as somalia and so undeveloped yet as viciously targeted as we have been.

 

[Galool]

Wallabhi this and your earlier posts are so depressing. It's crazy how we've been consistently targeted for decades. I honestly can think of any country as small as somalia and so undeveloped yet as viciously targeted as we have been.

No need to be depressed, it will end inshaAllah. All practicing Muslims are targeted by shaytaan and his army, it will eventually end.

For indeed, with hardship [will be] ease [i.e., relief].
Indeed, with hardship [will be] ease. 94:5-6

 

[Midas]

No need to be depressed, it will end inshaAllah. All practicing Muslims are targeted by shaytaan and his army, it will eventually end.

For indeed, with hardship [will be] ease [i.e., relief].
Indeed, with hardship [will be] ease. 94:5-6

Yeah I'm hopeful. Since even with everything that's happned when you look at where somali was post civil war. We've made a lot of progress. It's been slow so its not obvious but when you look over the long term over various decades you see the massive improvement.

 

[Keep it a boqol]

You sound like those leftist homosexuals who use to idolize communism and want to go more dystopian and want to abolish everything because “hierarchy is evil” for this fantasy world.

Find god. There needs to be law and order

 

[Idilinaa]

Wallabhi this and your earlier posts are so depressing. It's crazy how we've been consistently targeted for decades. I honestly can think of any country as small as somalia and so undeveloped yet as viciously targeted as we have been.

It's precisely underdeveloped and unstable in parts because its been targeted and meddled with.

From literally the beginning we was targeted.

Someone on twitter made this summary video more or less of US/Soviet and CIA/KBG targeting of Somalia from the time of the SYL before the governments formation and throughout, much of it was done in favour Ethiopia especially the US and soviet was more or less ideology driven.


@Galool it relates to what you was speaking about before.

 

[Idilinaa]

Opposite of depressing. To me this proves how awsome Somalis are , could you imagine this being any other country , let alone a country in Africa , if this proxy war and targeted concentrated sustained destabilizing efforts from outside happened to 1 single country . Heck not even Iraq and Syria has this been happening, and held out through human manufactured catastrophes.

After we defeated an Ethopian army twice our size to liberate Ogaden , which took 4 nations to intervene to stop it.(Cuba, Soviet, Yemen, Libya), Somalia defeated the Ethiopian invasion of 1982-83, twarted several ethiopian backed coup attempts while progressing the country in the 70s/80s , defeated an American invasion, reclaimed our land from warlords/insurgents backed by US and Ethiopia (ICU), defeated a US backed Ethopian invasion.

Even after international actors conspired with warlord/insurgent traitors to dump toxic waste and exploit our maritime resources, to muscle out local fishermen they fought them off.

During the scramble for Africa unlike this fake fiction of landlocked Ethiopia defeating colonialists. Somali sultanates and polities defended 3000 km of coastline stretching the Indian Ocean and the Red Sea, as well as around a million km of land against centralized colonial empires with a combined imperial population above 400 million (British, Italians, and French) and all the resources and human capital that came with it. And held out until the 1920s when most African and Asian nations were colonized
This all while repeatedly defeating large european backed Ethiopian armies making several incursions. And all of this without being industrialized like Japan or others.

It's because we were blessed with bountiful strategic geography, resources, and the fact that we try to stay resilient, unapologetically true to who we are as Somalis and Muslims.

They despise that. They wish nothing more to see Somali be diminished and taken advantage of. So all we need to do is stay vigillant , especially to honour those before us.

 

[Aseer]

Opposite of depressing. To me this proves how awsome Somalis are , could you imagine this being any other country , let alone a country in Africa , if this proxy war and targeted concentrated sustained destabilizing efforts from outside happened to 1 single country . Heck not even Iraq and Syria has this been happening, and held out through human manufactured catastrophes.

After we defeated an Ethopian army twice our size to liberate Ogaden , which took 4 nations to intervene to stop it.(Cuba, Soviet, Yemen, Libya), Somalia defeated the Ethiopian invasion of 1982-83, twarted several ethiopian backed coup attempts while progressing the country in the 70s/80s , defeated an American invasion, reclaimed our land from warlords/insurgents backed by US and Ethiopia (ICU), defeated a US backed Ethopian invasion.

Even after international actors conspired with warlord/insurgent traitors to dump toxic waste and exploit our maritime resources, to muscle out local fishermen they fought them off.

During the scramble for Africa unlike this fake fiction of landlocked Ethiopia defeating colonialists. Somali sultanates and polities defended 3000 km of coastline stretching the Indian Ocean and the Red Sea, as well as around a million km of land against centralized colonial empires with a combined imperial population above 400 million (British, Italians, and French) and all the resources and human capital that came with it. And held out until the 1920s when most African and Asian nations were colonized
This all while repeatedly defeating large european backed Ethiopian armies making several incursions. And all of this without being industrialized like Japan or others.

It's because we were blessed with bountiful strategic geography, resources, and the fact that we try to stay resilient, unapologetically true to who we are as Somalis and Muslims.

They despise that. They wish nothing more to see Somali be diminished and taken advantage of. So all we need to do is stay vigillant , especially to honour those before us.

To be honest ever since the birth of our republic we fought tooth and nail to survive you also forgot to mention the 1960s border war where when we were a fresh nation ethiopia attacked us but we managed to hold them off despite being outgunned.

 

[Midas]

It's precisely underdeveloped and unstable in parts because its been targeted and meddled with.

From literally the beginning we was targeted.

Someone on twitter made this summary video more or less of US/Soviet and CIA/KBG targeting of Somalia from the time of the SYL before the governments formation and throughout, much of it was done in favour Ethiopia especially the US and soviet was more or less ideology driven.


@Galool it relates to what you was speaking about before.

One think I'll say is that we've honestly made it incredibly far . I mean the somali diaspora came went to the west with most of our parents having never went to school in their lives and speaking no English. On top of dealing wut sending moeny to family back home and dealing with all sort of pstd or family members dying. Many of them even spent their early years growing up in the badiyo. Yet 25 years later look how far we've come. We don't appreciate the fact that we played on the ultimate hard mode compared to everybody else. On top of the massive vilification and stereotypes. Somalia are tough people wallahi.