Any proof of shewa sultanate and a horn based banu makhzum dynasty

[Garaad Awal]

Harla were Ethio-Semitic speakers who probably lived in close proximity with Somalis and were genetically heavily Somali. They hated ethnic Somalis and had to be separated within the Imam’s army

 

[Zak12]

They hated ethnic Somalis

Kekekek, where is this from?

 

[Idilinaa]

This is rubbish harla are msot likely hararis

Harla were Ethio-Semitic speakers who probably lived in close proximity with Somalis and were genetically heavily Somali. They hated ethnic Somalis and had to be separated within the Imam’s army

Alright show evidence that Harla was Harrari and ethio-semetic. You can claim them to be this and that but at the end of the day, if you don't have anything to back it up it is mute

They was seperated because they were sedentary agro-pastoralists and those clans called "somaal' was mobile pastoralists(bedouins).

It groups them with other Somali tribes in certain passages, in other passages they are grouped with the agro-pastoral clans and seperated, because the bedouin clans are headed by their own independant leaders while Harla along with the other sedentary ones are led by a one leader from Zarba a different clan.

So the speration is between bedouin and agro-pastoral sedentary clans. Not an ethnic one.
It's consistent with the distinction richard burton gives to Somalis in the area 500 years later.



Somebody asked me the same question a previous thread: Have a read to a more detailed answer i gave:
They make occupational distinctions not ethnic ones since they are written as a connected group

 

[Garaad Awal]

Alright show evidence that Harla was Harrari and ethio-semetic. You can claim them to be this and that but at the end of the day, if you don't have anything to back it up it is mute

Where did I say they were Harari? Hararis are a medieval refugee group who fled the Oromo invasions. Hence the Sidamic substratum found in The Harari language.

They was seperated because they were sedentary agro-pastoralists and those clans called "somaal' was mobile pastoralists(bedouins).

There’s no mention of the lifestyles of the various Somali clans mentioned in the Futuh. Again you pulled that idea out of nowhere.

Harla are an extinct ethnicity but my hunch is that they were Ethio-Semitic speakers and were the source of the Ethio-Semitic loandwords found in Northern Somali dialects. We will never know the true answer until we have more archeological teams working in Eastern Ethiopia & Western SL, hopefully one day they will find some remain and analyze their DNA

 

[Idilinaa]

Where did I say they were Harari? Hararis are a medieval refugee group who fled the Oromo invasions. Hence the Sidamic substratum found in The Harari language.

The guy i qouted above said it. Show proof that they were ethio-semetic

Harari is proven to be Gurage divergent language. Gurage are mentioned in Futuh to be a non-muslim peasants that were not involved in the war at all.

There’s no mention of the lifestyles of the various Somali clans mentioned in the Futuh. Again you pulled that idea out of nowhere.

Lets ignore other sources. Focus on how Futuh uses ''Soomaal'' as a foot in for bedouin which is what it originally meant and makes economic lifestyle differences.

You see it in passages like:

'' The citizens and the Soomaals'' and says ''Soomaal's from the country'' , i.e the countryside.

We already covered this in a different thread analyzing it.

There are other clues in the text that give it away that ''Somal'' is not in reference to an ethnicity but rather used as a blanket term for bedouins:

''Citizens and the Somals.. '' ''His Somals from the country'' ''The country of the Soomaal''



Something you pointed out :

''Somal is the only non tribal label that isn't a district
It is a country / what I assume is a balad in the Arabic text.

Harla is a district and there are tribes of the district. Sim is a district and there are tribes of the district And so on And tribes are named as being from these districts. It is not an ethnic label the way so many misinterpret it.

Harlas are not an ethnicity. They are a group of tribes from the region of Harla . Which itself maybe originally named for the mother tribe Of those tribes. Somal is unique in that it is not a district but a country As though they're talking about a countryside inhabited by these Somalis

You also see many instances of elites running off to go settle with "the Somals"

Where? What district? What region? It sounds so much to me like the text is saying they got whooped and ran off to settle with the nomads in the countryside

The amount of times you read '' "The Sultan and his Somals" it says like half a dozen times and that he hides among them when defeated .These are settled Somalis rallying their countryside tribes people

I remember a French researcher analyzing Futah pointing out mentioning the name ''Somal'' as if they are everywhere , inside and outside at the same. Like they have an omnipresence. This pretty much explains it

And also we can pretty much contextualize the army seperation when we see how Richard burton describes sedentary Somalis vs bedouin ones and how they are organized which is the exactly as in Futuh:

Harla and the other sedentary clans mentioned in Futuh are described as:
- As being joint led by 1 Sultan
- Harla is led by a Sultan/Leader from another tribe Zarba and not their own.

- ''Soomals''(Bedouin) clans are led each by their own independent Emirs.

This is exactly the same way in which Richard Burton explains the distinction between Sedentary Somali clans and Nomadic/Bedouin clans in the same area nearly 400 years later.

So it's pretty self explanatory.

Harla are an extinct ethnicity but my hunch is that they were Ethio-Semitic speakers and were the source of the Ethio-Semitic loandwords found in Northern Somali dialects. We will never know the true answer until we have more archeological teams working in Eastern Ethiopia & Western SL, hopefully one day they will find some remain and analyze their DNA

It convenient to claim them to be extinct because you have zero proof to their identity outside of Somali, which yall object to. It's self admission if anything lool.

No evidence of them speaking ethio-semetic either. There are no Harla extinct language you can asses this from. You are pulling this claim from nothing. And the rest of what you said its pure conjecture.

And Harla didn't even live in Western Somaliland or Ogaden, they lived in the upper levels of shabelle and awash like the textual sources i have shared have shown. So even if they were ethio-semetic speakers it wouldn't even show in that region.

Also we already have linguistic evidence from Al-Umari that Western SL and Galbeed sedentary populations spoke Somali and not ethio-semetic:

Some information on the medieval farming calendar of Somalis.

Modern revisionists in service of ''Ethiopianist'' interpretation of regional history cannot pull the whole ethio semetic spewel or some unknown other group when in relates to the farming in medieval times(obviously we don't substratum in our language that indicate past ethnic plurality).

But also because we have confirmation by Al-Umari in the 13th cetury about the language being Somali but also their farming tracking conventions being Somali.

Al-Umari says al-Habasha as a region has 100 different languages but Awfat/Awdal and other Muslim provinces/kingdoms spoke one language he calls ''Zayla'i language'' (When Medieval arab authors use al-Habash they are not referring to the modern ethiopian supra-ethnicity, but as a generalized region)


He then describes the language through their use of farming calendar:
AL UMARI's ACCOUNT OF AWFAT/ADAL's LANGUAGE


Not only are those the Somali specific names for seasons that have stayed consistent for 700 years.

They are also different from the seasonal names used in Harari(who are Gurage in reality) and even ethio semetic speakers use. List by Wolf Leslau. ''seasons are Ethiopic''

 

[NidarNidar]

I believe they have textual evidence from chronicles uncovered by Enrico Cerulli, but it hasn't been identified archeologically speaking

Do you know anything about the Darawo principality? I'm trying to prove something

 

[Aseer]

The guy i qouted above said it. Show proof that they were ethio-semetic

Harari is proven to be Gurage divergent language. Gurage are mentioned in Futuh to be a non-muslim peasants that were not involved in the war at all.



Lets ignore other sources. Focus on how Futuh uses ''Soomaal'' as a foot in for bedouin which is what it originally meant and makes economic lifestyle differences.

You see it in passages like:

'' The citizens and the Soomaals'' and says ''Soomaal's from the country'' , i.e the countryside.

We already covered this in a different thread analyzing it.


And also we can pretty much contextualize the army seperation when we see how Richard burton describes sedentary Somalis vs bedouin ones and how they are organized which is the exactly as in Futuh:


So it's pretty self explanatory.



It convenient to claim them to be extinct because you have zero proof to their identity outside of Somali, which yall object to. It's self admission if anything lool.

No evidence of them speaking ethio-semetic either. There are no Harla extinct language you can asses this from. You are pulling this claim from nothing. And the rest of what you said its pure conjecture.

And Harla didn't even live in Western Somaliland or Ogaden, they lived in the upper levels of shabelle and awash like the textual sources i have shared have shown. So even if they were ethio-semetic speakers it wouldn't even show in that region.

Also we already have linguistic evidence from Al-Umari that Western SL and Galbeed sedentary populations spoke Somali and not ethio-semetic:

You cant leave this forum you still have so much to teach

 

[wonyluvr]

You cant leave this forum you still have so much to teach

Ask them if they are a man or a woman I keep getting aired

 

[NidarNidar]

Ask them if they are a man or a woman I keep getting aired

If you can't tell by the name, you don't deserve to know.

 

[wonyluvr]

If you can't tell by the name, you don't deserve to know.

I don’t wanna assume but I think imma have to

I’m just gonna assume you’re a girl now

 

[Aseer]

Ask them if they are a man or a woman I keep getting aired

Remove the last 4 letters of her username

 

[Yabal]

What about ifat and Adal I heard they were hararis

Ifat and Adal were Darood Aqeeli Arab Quraysh.

 

[Aseer]

Ifat and Adal were Darood Aqeeli Arab Quraysh.

Here comes the ana arab

 

[Idilinaa]

You cant leave this forum you still have so much to teach

I am learning myself but i have graduated. I'm sure there are still some posters on here that will continue the research here and elsewhere.

 

[The Macrobian]

Here comes the ana arab

but weren't the ifat and adalite sultans walashma and therefore darood?

 

[Aseer]

I am learning myself but i have graduated. I'm sure there are still some posters on here that will continue the research here and elsewhere.

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[Idilinaa]

but weren't the ifat and adalite sultans walashma and therefore darood?

We don't know what their clan. Only that they were Somali(Al-Jabarti) , spoke Somali(Al-Umari), came from Northern Somalia (Jabarta & Zayla) and claimed the same Somali genealogical descent as most Somali clans (Aqili)

 

[Idilinaa]

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As far as i know there is no authentic manuscript that ties Harari to Harla and the Futuh Mahdinat Harar and other manuscripts have been proven to be a fradulent writtings produced in 20th century.

They talk about fighting Italians and portuguese in 1200s and driving cars lmaao . It full of nonsense like that collapses modern day happenings into the past. They even mention people using rifles in the 13th century

Basically epic fiction pieces.

 

[Yabal]

Here comes the ana arab

I’m speaking about Darood and yes we are Arabs.

 

[Aseer]

As far as i know there is no authentic manuscript that ties Harari to Harla and the Futuh Mahdinat Harar and other manuscripts have been proven to be a fradulent writtings produced in 20th century.

They talk about fighting Italians and portuguese in 1200s and driving cars lmaao . It full of nonsense like that collapses modern day happenings into the past. They even mention people using rifles in the 13th century

Basicially epic fiction pieces.

Is this a excerpt from the manuscript I shared with you? Also how come the faqih I showed you has the name "wanaag" in his surname