Atheists have no place in Somalia

[Kaafiye]

Take a chill pill man. I'm going to need to hear your justifications for why the Quran is not explicit about the prohibition of slavery. Let's hear it. Also, none of that Allah couldn't do it at the time and wanted the gradual disappearance of slavery. You limit and insult the power of your God by saying such things.

God says "be and it is" right?

Be quiet.

You're repeating old rehashed arguments, so you can derail this thread and get into a long-winded convo about Islamic Law on this forum. We've addressed this argument before, on the Somnet forum as well as on other forums. And I'm honestly not interested in having any sort of dialogue with you, because that'll result in me repeating myself and getting into an hours-long argument with someone who I really don't give a damn on preaching too.

 

[Kaafiye]

Why not refute their arguments instead of making personal jabs? You write essays for them but never anything Islamic.

What is the point? So I can spend a significant number of minutes writing essays that have already been written, on arguments that have already been refuted on various Islamic forums and websites, to an Atheist who will then turn around and insult the Deen anyway? That's not dawah. Dawah is preaching the Deen to those who are willingly trying to learn, whether they be uninformed Atheists, practicing Christians, and all other Non-Muslims.

Muslim teachers have long engaged in the practice of addressing arguments against the Deen, as well as clarifying anyone's doubts. And this is coming from guys like Yasir Qadhi, Kamal El-Mekki, and Nouman Ali Khan...........as well as Sheikhs like Ahmad ibn Hanbal and his contemporaries. The research and the arguments are out there. So why would I resort to degrading the Deen by taking a defensive position as this Atheist continues to take jabs at Islam while I sit there defending and addressing his charges? What kind of one-sided convo is that? I don't get it KowDheh, why can't you stop and think about the implications of this conversation? It's not becoming of a Muslim to be defensive and apologetic about his Deen, especially in the face of those who already have their minds made up about their godless beliefs.

Writing this paragraph to you takes me only 2 minutes. But getting into these sort of debates can last hours, days, even weeks. It ain't worth it.

 

[rational]

Be quiet.

You're repeating old rehashed arguments, so you can derail this thread and get into a long-winded convo about Islamic Law on this forum. We've addressed this argument before, on the Somnet forum as well as on other forums. And I'm honestly not interested in having any sort of dialogue with you, because that'll result in me repeating myself and getting into an hours-long argument with someone who I really don't give a damn on preaching too.

You couldn't produce a simple rebuttal on the lack of a clear prohibition on slavery in Islam, so "be quiet" is all you got.

Let me help you out, there is no reasonably decent justification for Islam not outright banning slavery. You will not find it. No reasonable human being stands by the practice, and thus an All Merciful God would not as well. In Islam, Allah is the type of God who doesn't want people DRAWING the likeness of his creation, yet sees no problem with his creation OWNING his creation. Allah is the type of God who has destroyed entire people and cities over much less severe crimes. So please understand when people like me are puzzled by the discrepancy in his rulings (no prohibition on slavery, but banning drawing creation, alcohol, etc) that he included in the Quran, the supposed guide for all time. I've concluded Islam is transparently false. For everyone on the thread, put those critical thinking skills to work. Might just save yourself a lifetime of wasted energy.

 

[Kaafiye]

There have been entire lectures, entire volumes of books, and long well-researched articles addressing the charges placed against Islam by these Atheists.

Muslim scholars and preachers have even gotten into debates with Atheists and completely wiped the floor with them, logically presenting my arguments and disproving the Atheists.

This isn't news. It is an obligation for all practicing Muslims to acquaint themselves with the arguments used against Islam and learn how to respond. We have the guidance of Allah in our hands, and it's our duty to have the ability to defend the Prophet and to defend the Deen from the lies of these Atheists.

I remember once I used to play basketball with these group of Somali guys, and one of them was an avowed Atheist. We got it a heated group convo and I completely refuted every single one of his charges against the Deen, and he eventually became quiet when I presented him with my arguments and evidences favoring Islam. And this is coming from me, someone who has minimal knowledge compared to teachers like Yasir Qadhi and Nouman Ali Khan.

Websites like Islamic-Awareness.org and Muslimmatters.com are dedicated to these sorts of arguments, and everything is laid out there.

 

[Kaafiye]

You couldn't produce a simple rebuttal on the lack of a clear prohibition on slavery in Islam, so "be quiet" is all you got.

Let me help you out, there is no reasonably decent justification for Islam not outright banning slavery. You will not find it. No reasonable human being stands by the practice, and thus an All Merciful God would not as well. In Islam, Allah is the type of God who doesn't want people DRAWING the likeness of his creation, yet sees no problem with his creation OWNING his creation. Allah is the type of God who has destroyed entire people and cities over much less severe crimes. So please understand when people like me are puzzled by the discrepancy in his rulings (no prohibition on slavery, but banning drawing creation, alcohol, etc) that he included in the Quran, the supposed guide for all time. I've concluded Islam is transparently false. For everyone on the thread, put those critical thinking skills to work. Might just save yourself a lifetime of wasted energy.

The issue of slavery has already been addressed in books as well as in lectures by Islamic teachers like Kamal El Mekki.

Do yourself a favor and f*ck off from this argument and look at the online Islamic resources available to you.

I'm not here to be your friend and get into a long-winded chit chat with you.

 

[rational]

The issue of slavery has already been addressed in books as well as in lectures by Islamic teachers like Kamal El Mekki.

Do yourself a favor and f*ck off from this argument and look at the online Islamic resources available to you.

I'm not here to be your friend and get into a long-winded chit chat with you.

Swearing now eh? How very Muslim of you. Yeah, we are done here.

 

[Kaafiye]

Swearing now eh? How very Muslim of you. Yeah, we are done here.

I've been done with you.

 

[Kaafiye]

Dude wants to get into a long theological argument at 3:30 in the morning, where I have to dedicate hours of my time addressing his every little concern.

I've been through this before, on Somnet and on other forums, and it's very very time-consuming. Why bother getting into the same old argument when the rebuttal already exists online and there's no need for me to repeat old arguments?

 

[rational]

Initial post was 2 hours ago, where I made a very simple point. In that time span, you've made the time to make 7 different posts without saying anything of significant value.

 

[Kaafiye]

Initial post was 2 hours ago, where I made a very simple point. In that time span, you've made the time to make 7 different posts without saying anything of significant value.

Okay.

 

[Cognitivedissonance]

Swearing now eh? How very Muslim of you. Yeah, we are done here.

You don't need to explain nothing to this gaal bastard if you ain't Muslim then kindly leave us be without trying to bring our religion into disrepute you filthy conniving apostate bastard nacaala iyo waxa tahay ba waas.

 

[Al Dhoobe]

There's one problem I have with all atheists/agnostics alike. The vaaaast majority of them have no idea wth they are talking about when it comes to Islam. Islam is a religion follow by one 5th of the worlds population and thus should be treated with more respect. You atheists/agnostics claim to be bearers of logic and reason yet you criticize Islam without studying it in depth. Slavery has been covered in the books of Islamic jurisprudence and there are voluminous works dedicated to this topic.

Besides these are issues of LAW. Now! imagine me arguing against a legislation set forth by the US supreme court by quoting arbitrarily from google. Not only will i look like a buffoon, but I'll be called out by academicians for not having the correct qualifications. When you quote a hadith or passage of the quran arbitrarily you need to understand a few things.

First: There's context and time. The prophet didn't just randomly blurt out these sayings.
Second: Hadith is like a social science. There's many ways it can be understood, there's syntax, semantics, abrogations etc..
Third: There's different gradings of hadith, and thus some are used for judicial rulings while others are disregarded
Fourth: It is impermissible and sinful for the laymen to derive legal rulings directly from the 3 sources(quran, hadith, saying of ashaab). Just like any legal system, one has to be trained by professionals to understand the finer details of Islamic jurisprudence.

My point is, you wont find your answers on forums/blogs. But if yall wanna continue then by all means...

 

[Adam]

Nothing useful comes out of arguments it's just battle of egos. You want to learn something then go search for it truth is for those who seek it

 

[Bielsa]

I've read many pieces and watched many lectures explaining what @rational is saying regarding slavery and their explanation is full of logical fallacies and dishonesty. It's the same issue with Christians. Yahweh also saw fit to pass down loads of meaningless laws on how to live your life but couldn't outright ban slavery. There are whole sections in the Bible and Quran dedicated on women and every aspect of their lives but nothing about the outright ban on owning human beings?

The Sahaba and the prophet were basically men of their times. They were a product of their culture and environment, hence they can't be judged on the morals and standards of today. But God is supposed to be the all knowing and all mighty yet he was more worried about meaningless stuff like drawings.

God doesn't exist. It's a made up entity by human beings back when they were illiterate, and had no explanation for the wonders of this world so they just attributed it to a super natural being. When floods or earthquakes happened they would say it's because people of that city/region have angered God and now he's punishing them.

 

[54321]

I've read many pieces and watched many lectures explaining what @rational is saying regarding slavery and their explanation is full of logical fallacies and dishonesty. It's the same issue with Christians. Yahweh also saw fit to pass down loads of meaningless laws on how to live your life but couldn't outright ban slavery. There are whole sections in the Bible and Quran dedicated on women and every aspect of their lives but nothing about the outright ban on owning human beings?

The Sahaba and the prophet were basically men of their times. They were a product of their culture and environment, hence they can't be judged on the morals and standards of today. But God is supposed to be the all knowing and all mighty yet he was more worried about meaningless stuff like drawings.

God doesn't exist. It's a made up entity by human beings back when they were illiterate, and had no explanation for the wonders of this world so they just attributed it to a super natural being. When floods or earthquakes happened they would say it's because people of that city/region have angered God and now he's punishing them.

Most Muslims say slavery isn't acceptable anymore, even though it is explicitly permitted in the eternal Quran. I don't buy their arguments either, but I'm happy they can bring themselves to that point.

 

[Baraf]

@VicePrez Would you tell that to the hurting person or the child who lost his parents? As they are pushing themselves as they can to make the best of their lives everyday, as they believe of better days to come. That their will be a day of recompense. An individual has been dead for thousands of years, 3 seconds of life, and their gone. What's your explanation for this? Does atheism seem to understand this phenomenon of human life. Does it provide a satisfying and heartful answer? Does pushing down athiestic beliefs benefit anyone really? Would you say 'too bad you were made inferior according to natural sciences, might as well deal with as their is nothing to come'. "Thoughts of living in eternity make you feel worthless"

 

[Kaafiye]

@VicePrez Would you tell that to the hurting person or the child who lost his parents? As they are pushing themselves as they can to make the best of their lives everyday, as they believe of better days to come. That their will be a day of recompense. An individual has been dead for thousands of years, 3 seconds of life, and their gone. What's your explanation for this? Does atheism seem to understand this phenomenon of human life. Does it provide a satisfying and heartful answer? Does pushing down athiestic beliefs benefit anyone really? Would you say 'too bad you were made inferior according to natural sciences, might as well deal with as their is nothing to come'. "Thoughts of living in eternity make you feel worthless"

You don't even need to say all that. VicePrez's arguments in favour of Atheism defy all logic and reason, and there's no need to resort to emotional arguments to prove your case here. He says there's no God, but the onus is on him to prove that since everything that has a Cause must come from an original uncaused Cause (ie. God), and for him to insist otherwise, he needs solid evidence. There are numerous evidences proving the authenticity of Islam, if VicePrez were sincere on learning. So there's no use to take a defensive stance against someone taking the very laughable Atheist position.

 

[Bielsa]

You don't even need to say all that. VicePrez's arguments in favour of Atheism defy all logic and reason, and there's no need to resort to emotional arguments to prove your case here. He says there's no God, but the onus is on him to prove that since everything that has a Cause must come from an original uncaused Cause (ie. God), and for him to insist otherwise, he needs solid evidence. There are numerous evidences proving the authenticity of Islam, if VicePrez were sincere on learning. So there's no use to take a defensive stance against someone taking the very laughable Atheist position.

This is why we should end the argument here because we disagree on basic fundamentals. You believe God is an original uncaused cause. That's just like your opinion man. You have faith in the existence of God and the hereafter. I believe hell and heaven are more made up things that can't be verified. We will agree to disagree and everyone .can make up their own mind.

 

[54321]

This is why we should end the argument here because we disagree on basic fundamentals. You believe God is an original uncaused cause. That's just like your opinion man. You have faith in the existence of God and the hereafter. I believe hell and heaven are more made up things that can't be verified. We will agree to disagree and everyone .can make up their own mind.

 

[Racer]

You don't even need to say all that. VicePrez's arguments in favour of Atheism defy all logic and reason, and there's no need to resort to emotional arguments to prove your case here. He says there's no God, but the onus is on him to prove that since everything that has a Cause must come from an original uncaused Cause (ie. God), and for him to insist otherwise, he needs solid evidence. There are numerous evidences proving the authenticity of Islam, if VicePrez were sincere on learning. So there's no use to take a defensive stance against someone taking the very laughable Atheist position.