Challenge: Name me 3 positive things Siyaad Barre has done

[محمود فارح]

Ever since the kacaan came in power it wrecked the economy since they were all military men who had no knowledge of how economy works an that led to sharp increase in unemployment which led many youths to emigrate to the gulf states and in early 80s Somalia's economy became dependent on the remittances coming from the gulf states.

I agree with you on the first point. There were many Somalis who went to the Gulf during this period, 70/80, especially (the northerners). I have relatives who went there. If the Somali economy had been good, they would not have been.

 

[Zak12]

@Periplus what do you think of this earlier post analyzing Barre's government performance? I agree with some parts of it but others like Somalia having zero economic growth during his tenure or being the poorest country in Africa seem suspect.

 

[Aurelian]

18th of May brings out the crazy in Somalis. Either secessionists start wilding out acting like it’s the 4th of July or Kacaanists double down on their nostalgic delusion.

In saying that, I am setting myself a challenge.

Name me 3 positive things Barre has done and I will try to refute them.

Because I genuinely think that Barre is given way too much credit for someone who led a country for 22 years.

1- Nationwide effort to combat illiteracy
2- free education.
3- free health care system.

 

[killerxsmoke]

1- Nationwide effort to combat illiteracy
2- free education.
3- free health care system.

We were illiterate because he changed the script

 

[AlteKartel]

Doesn’t change the fact that all his benefits are worthless because he’s responsible for the collapse of the Somali state.

Yes, he clung onto power for far too long but the state still existed when the Jabhads kicked him out of Muqdisho. The ultimate blame for our current state of affairs lies with them, not Barre. My family who supported USC when they took over wishes desperately that Barre remained and I’m certain almost every Somali does as well.

 

[attash]

Some of the paved road projects were done by the SYL and the colonial adminstration.

Also, as I have pointed earlier, those projects done under Barre were conducted by the Italian government for money laundering/corruption purposes.

This doesn't change the fact that the roads were still built and Somalis still benefit from them till this day.

I do not see the need the need to push black and white historical narratives where every figure needs to be uniformly good or uniformly evil. There is nothing wrong with praising Barre for the good that he did or condemning him for the evil that he committed. On the one hand you have people who say that Barre was a great president and Somalia was doing well in his time and on the other hand you have people saying that Barre was the devil and that he did nothing good for Somalis. Both of these narratives are simply not true.

There is no need to "refute" any of Barre's accomplishments similar to how there is no need to "refute" any of his atrocities. They happened, it's history, and there is nothing you can do about it.

 

[Zak12]

This doesn't change the fact that the roads were still built and Somalis still benefit from them till this day.

I do not see the need the need to push black and white historical narratives where every figure needs to be uniformly good or uniformly evil. There is nothing wrong with praising Barre for the good that he did or condemning him for the evil that he committed. On the one hand you have people who say that Barre was a great president and Somalia was doing well in his time and on the other hand you have people saying that Barre was the devil and that he did nothing good for Somalis. Both of these narratives are simply not true.

There is no need to "refute" any of Barre's accomplishments similar to how there is no need to "refute" any of his atrocities. They happened, it's history, and there is nothing you can do about it.

It reminds me of what fascists would say about Mussolini making the trains run on time

 

[Aurelian]

We were illiterate because he changed the script

Are you saying your average tuulo or reer miyi could wrote scripts in arabic abjad?

 

[Periplus]

This doesn't change the fact that the roads were still built and Somalis still benefit from them till this day.

I do not see the need the need to push black and white historical narratives where every figure needs to be uniformly good or uniformly evil. There is nothing wrong with praising Barre for the good that he did or condemning him for the evil that he committed. On the one hand you have people who say that Barre was a great president and Somalia was doing well in his time and on the other hand you have people saying that Barre was the devil and that he did nothing good for Somalis. Both of these narratives are simply not true.

There is no need to "refute" any of Barre's accomplishments similar to how there is no need to "refute" any of his atrocities. They happened, it's history, and there is nothing you can do about it.

I feel like you missed my point.

My sources were pointing out that those development projects were not because of him but because Italians used Somalia as a laundering operation.

The point was that Barre had no involvement apart from approving these projects for a cut. He did not propose it, he did not plan it or had any involvement.

Had it been another leader in power, those projects would’ve happened anyways.

 

[killerxsmoke]

Are you saying your average tuulo or reer miyi could wrote scripts in arabic abjad?

Most of them could read it and some of them could spell

 

[Zak12]

I feel like you missed my point.

My sources were pointing out that those development projects were not because of him but because Italians used Somalia as a laundering operation.

The point was that Barre had no involvement apart from approving these projects for a cut. He did not propose it, he did not plan it or had any involvement.

Had it been another leader in power, those projects would’ve happened anyways.

U saying Somalia continued being a colony after indepndence?

 

[Aurelian]

Most of them could read it and some of them could spell

another lie

 

[Diini23]

@Periplus what sources/books would you recommend to someone who’s looking into that era given the scarcity of unbiased revisionist sources?

 

[Periplus]

1- Nationwide effort to combat illiteracy
2- free education.
3- free health care system.

All three of those achievements have been achieved by every communist despot in history.

However, maintaining an economy while doing that is the real challenge. Also, providing education isn't anything if there aren't jobs, providing free healthcare isn't anything if your hospitals are barely equipped.

 

[Periplus]

@Periplus what sources/books would you recommend to someone who’s looking into that era given the scarcity of unbiased revisionist sources?

Honestly, the best sources about the Barre administration is news articles at the time from Western journalists. Due to Somalia allying with the US in the 1970s, American journalists got unprecedented access to Barre's press conferences and Somalia.

Another book of interest is Safiirka by the American ambassador during the 1980s, he regularly met Barre and the ministers due to being one of the main financiers of his regime.

 

[Periplus]

U saying Somalia continued being a colony after indepndence?

I think this pretty much sums it up. This article is backed up by Italian parliamentary records.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/1993/01/24/the-italian-connection-how-rome-helped-ruin-somalia/cd843c56-6443-42e4-98b6-0f0a9147cee3/

 

[Diini23]

Honestly, the best sources about the Barre administration is news articles at the time from Western journalists. Due to Somalia allying with the US in the 1970s, American journalists got unprecedented access to Barre's press conferences and Somalia.

Another book of interest is Safiirka by the American ambassador during the 1980s, he regularly met Barre and the ministers due to being one of the main financiers of his regime.

What do u think of the book titled the suicidal state of Somalia by Proff Haji ingiriis, I haven’t read it but he seems to be profound when it comes to Somali history and the Kacaan regime? Also is safiirka the only book u can think of?

 

[Yazi]

Ina Samatar wrote a very detailed book about the compounded failures of socialist Somalia. He's Sameroon so no one can accuse him of tribal bias. You can borrow it here.

Socialist Somalia: Rhetoric and Reality.

Socialist Somalia : rhetoric and reality : Samatar, Ahmed I. (Ahmed Ismail) : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Bibliography: p. [164]-181

archive.org

 

[Periplus]

Ina Samatar wrote a very detailed book about the compounded failures of socialist Somalia. He's Sameroon so no one can accuse him of tribal bias. You can borrow it here.

Socialist Somalia: Rhetoric and Reality.

Socialist Somalia : rhetoric and reality : Samatar, Ahmed I. (Ahmed Ismail) : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Bibliography: p. [164]-181

archive.org

I've read a few of his works about Somalia/Somali studies. I appreciate his insight.

His one on the civilian administration is really good.

 

[Periplus]

What do u think of the book titled the suicidal state of Somalia by Proff Haji ingiriis, I haven’t read it but he seems to be profound when it comes to Somali history and the Kacaan regime? Also is safiirka the only book u can think of?

I haven't read anything from Haji Ingiriis to be honest with you.

I haven't read anything about Somali history in about three years now which is why I am struggling to remember much. A lot of the sources I have quoted in this thread is just what comes first to mind from my memory.