You’re talking to yourself walaal I’ve said my point. May Allah grant you a blessed day.
Donald Horowitz: Federalism in Severely Divided Societies
- Thread starter Thegoodshepherd
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You’re talking to yourself walaal I’ve said my point. May Allah grant you a blessed day.
Haven't u seen the fbi can't cross into state law enforcement or australia federal police cannot cross into state police matters without a constitutional court approval. You think it's any different in govt departments? If anything is supreme its the constitutional court or rule of law not federal, regional, local govt bodies as their all equal under qaranka with differing roles.
@Thegoodshepherd we need to re educate these 1969 throwbacks
Why are you trying to apply European seperation of powers to some low iq African country. African countries regularly lock up goats and other animals in jail. Hutus will be all over Puntland doing what they want. They control the capital so they control Somalia, mostly to sell it to the highest bidder, they don't even think about politics.
Some fanciful conversations always happening in Somali politics. Like when those Darood politicians complain about the Women's Affairs Minister being a man. Do you not realize most the south is occupied by extremists? What are these people even on? It's the twilight zone.
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Federalism doesnt work in Somalia. It is as useless as political parties in Somalia. The FMS arent Federal state but confederate ones. When South West state doesnt like the decision of the FGS, they run to Ethiopia, Gedo's leader is openly declaring that his state is part of Ethiopia, Madobe just extended his term once again through the regional parliament. Also I dont understand why there arent SNA bases in puntland. SNA needs to be present everywhere in Somalia from Ras Kambooni to Awdal.
@DR OSMAN you have to understand that @Sup and @AlteKartel probably don’t know how powerful US states are. US states have more power than the federal gov on almost everything. The main advantages the federal gov has over the states is the commerce clause and the enforcement of individual constitutional rights.
@Sup @AlteKartel if you feel comfortable with Somalia adopting American style federalism, we agree. I literally have no objection.
@Sup @AlteKartel if you feel comfortable with Somalia adopting American style federalism, we agree. I literally have no objection.
How are states more powerful than the Federal government in the USA? The federal Supreme Court is superior to any state Supreme Court with regards to determining rulings. If a state ratifies a law that conflicts with federal law the courts will side with the federal government as long as the federal law isn’t deemed unconstitutional. States obviously have a lot of autonomy and are able to run their own departments for healthcare, agriculture, etc. but where do the standards themselves come from? The federal government and the independent federal agencies. State governments having a lot of independence to run their affairs != them being superior to the federal government. I was just clarifying the notion that state governments are on equal footing with the federal gov. That’s not the case in the US constitution nor is it the case in the Somali one.@DR OSMAN you have to understand that @Sup and @AlteKartel probably don’t know how powerful US states are. US states have more power than the federal gov on almost everything. The main advantages the federal gov has over the states is the commerce clause and the enforcement of individual constitutional rights.
@Sup @AlteKartel if you feel comfortable with Somalia adopting American style federalism, we agree. I literally have no objection.
As for US-style federalism, I don’t mind that in Somalia. There’s some aspects I dislike (status of the capital, education policy, etc.) but as long as the federal gov is strong enough to control its borders and enforce the requirement that the proper channels be used for international dialogue and Xamar is given some form of devolution and representation (a la Buenos Aires, Mexico City, Berlin, Vienna, etc.) I’m fine. All Somali governments are weak and poor anyway. I’d much rather the federal gov be smart with its money now and then take on greater oversight abilities later on. The one thing I like about federalism is that it (ideally) makes it easier for citizens to point fingers when things are going poorly. They’re directly represented by someone and if their interests are not being addressed they know where to go as opposed to in unitary systems where it can be confusing.
I’m more curious how Somali federalism will evolve once Somaliland is (eventually) brought back to the negotiating table. I doubt they’d accept FMS status as is. Do you think we could see some type of confederation-style agreement? Or perhaps a more devolved type of federalism with respect to Somaliland?
Somalia is low-trust society and there’s no courts to determine rulings. So as of now states are worried that the solution of the fed gov in case of any disagreement is the use of blunt force, hence why puntland isn’t accepting SNA soldiers. Realistically, there needs to be a strong and trusted courts mechanism before soldiers will be allowed there. Once an integrated and representative SNA is created, 40-50% of SNA soldiers stationed in a FMS should be from there. That way, states feel more comfortable and soldiers are able to spend time stationed with people from other parts of Somalia, hopefully increasing unity and cohesion.
tyrannicalmanager
pseudo-intellectual
Federalism was implemented through a barrel of an Ethiopian Tank
This is actually fair and sounds pretty achievable. I don’t see why either side would have any objections to this.
Asking the politicians to actually sit down and come to a solution on topics like this is very unlikely though.
I’m more curious about how a federal Supreme Court would be constructed. In my head each state would get one judge and the president would have the ability to select judges if one happened to die/resign. I’d also have minimum term limits as well to prevent the federal gov from coercing judges it opposes. The most important part is finding people of the requisite caliber. We don’t want the president appointing a doqon horgal who doesn’t know anything about law.
The way to measure real power is who gets to write the laws you live with daily? In the US, this is the state government. The federal gov is limited by the constitution from passing laws meant to specifically regulate a certain state, so laws tend to be generally applicable. This means that state governments have a lot of space in which to make vastly different policies.
Mississippi is subject to the same laws as Massachusetts, yet the difference between their laws is huge. This need to pass laws that apply to every state equally means that the federal gov has to pass laws that are very general. This is uu why areas like taxation, education, health, transportation, unemployment, voting, licensing, etc.. remain in large degree at the state government level.
The US supreme court routinely rules in favor of states when they come iconflict with the federal government.
This is American federal states, Canadian provinces are even more powerful, Belgian provinces more so and then Swiss cantons.
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I’ve used words interchangeably which is why there’s confusion in what I’m saying so for that I apologize. My point is that state and fed governments are not on the same level in terms of stature. The gov of Minnesota is not in any way equal to the federal government despite all the rights the state of Minnesota is afforded in the constitution. Yes, state governments have more impact on your day-to-day life than the federal government. In that sense you are correct, they are more powerful. My point is that as long as the federal government acts within its constitutional rights, it’s able to pass whatever laws it pleases and states cannot contradict those laws with their own laws. In that sense, the federal government is superior in stature to state governments. It has the final say (as long as what it’s doing is constitutional).
I would like to have the federal governments powers defined in the constitution so that it is clearer than in the US constitutionThis will help reduce the need to go to the supreme court every other day.
The more clear cut the constitution the easier it will be to have fewer disagreements.
Exactly. A proper federal govt performs oversight not policy, standards, service delivery if it did all the Australian and American states would look and operate identical since its managed from a common organ. Just like the FBI can't set standards for state police, all departments are the same. This @Sup and @AlteKartel only know state formation based on 1969 model not based on the rule of law.
I just know there no way PL govt is ceding power to an equal authority in the qaranka. This topic is heading nowhere bro and will remain in stalemate.
A country emerging from civil war will always have exceptions applied to their system anyways and we should of started as confederation with a goal of arriving at federation in a century time.
Only a supreme court can exercise power over both federal and state govt not the federal govt. That's why the west call itself a system based on the rule of law as their courts have the final authority not feds or state or local.
Once A legitimate and recognized judicial is operating in Somalia, PL will only report to that not the federal govt. We respect the rule of law not federal govt.
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if you feel comfortable with Somalia adopting American style federalism, we agree. I literally have no objection.
Wala karbashay all children of abbe siyad system, they seriously don't know any other state model like a bunch of orphans.
@Thegoodshepherd I'm busy studying market development, market laws, business standards, allowing civilians to access stock in publically listed companies, and how to migrate from an informal to formal economy because a large part of our gdp is unreported due to lack of organization and record keeping.
Garaad Awal
Zubeyri aka Targaryen of the Awalid Kingdom.
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