VixR
Veritas
What's primordial human nature?You are seriously lacking the primordial human nature
I'm reminded of creation myths from around the world that talk about "primordial waters" to explain our liquid existence and our surroundings.
Feminism has turned women into men
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I'm reminded of creation myths from around the world that talk about "primordial waters" to explain our liquid existence and our surroundings.
SenseSays
Years to look forward to
Awoowe, are you getting interested in Kpop? Can I recommend some life-changing entertainment to you?
Primordial human nature is one not eating excrement.What's primordial human nature?
I'm reminded of creation myths from around the world that talk about "primordial waters" to explain our liquid existence and our surroundings.
Primordial human nature is one not sleeping with his mother or immediate family.
Primordial human nature is the ability to love, empathy, bond with your fellow man, protect your loved ones, love your family.
Do you want to witness first hand what primordial human nature is then observe a baby that's doesn't know anything yet still cries when they see you wear a scary mask.
“So turn your face toward the true natural way of life – God’s chosen fitrah (constitution) upon which He has formed humanity. There is no altering the primary state of God’s creation. That is the correct way of life though most men fail to realize it. It is the path of turning towards God, remaining dutiful to Him, establishing prayer, and being not of those who ascribe partners to Him.” (Qur’an 30:30-31).
You do that ever time I see your avatar
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VixR
Veritas
Not eating excrement is common sense; it's neither beneficial or enjoyable.
Fear is a necessary mechanism for survival.
You say the primordial human nature is defined by the ability to love, empathize, protect, but it's also the ability for hate, apathy, attack.
You're being awfully choosy.
Are you a humanist miise a transhumist?
VixR
Veritas
You could say I have a cynical view of humans, which isn't bad, just realistic. Ultimately, I'm a humanist. We should strive towards our capacity for good, though we don't favor it.
Acudu billahi Mina shadani rajiim bismillahi rahmani rahim
“So turn your face toward the true natural way of life – God’s chosen fitrah (constitution) upon which He has formed humanity. There is no altering the primary state of God’s creation. That is the correct way of life though most men fail to realize it. It is the path of turning towards God, remaining dutiful to Him, establishing prayer, and being not of those who ascribe partners to Him.” (Qur’an 30:30-31).
VixR
Veritas
There is no such thing as "fitrah".
Our conscience is malleable and often subjective.
You think humans are inherently good?
I do not.
Altruism is a fight against our baser selves.
I think there is something to transhumanism though. For instance, the need for free human labor (slavery) has been slashed in large part thanks due to the advent of industry and technology, not bc we have fuzzy, warm goo-filled hearts. There are still parts in the world it happens, but comparatively to points in human history where slavery was a common sight all across the world, it is negligible.
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I now understand why the powers that shouldn't be have caused so much chaos & destruction while they made it unbearable for us to live in our home land so that we flock in droves to their country in order to get indocrrinated & leave our religion Al Islam 
They have effectively removed the father from the home & gave women an irresistible incentive to kick the father out the home so they may get the child from a young age and place them into indoctrination centres. With the father still in the house it would be more difficult to brainwash the kids into their way of thinking which is ungodly, ask yourself do you think the same people who gave the native Tribes of America blankets that were laced with smallpox have got good intentions now? The same people who destroyed & ethnically cleansed the native aboriginal tribes of Australia?
In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king
Have no fear just like they plan so too does Allah & Allah the most benevolent the most wise is the best of planners
They have effectively removed the father from the home & gave women an irresistible incentive to kick the father out the home so they may get the child from a young age and place them into indoctrination centres. With the father still in the house it would be more difficult to brainwash the kids into their way of thinking which is ungodly, ask yourself do you think the same people who gave the native Tribes of America blankets that were laced with smallpox have got good intentions now? The same people who destroyed & ethnically cleansed the native aboriginal tribes of Australia?
In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king
Have no fear just like they plan so too does Allah & Allah the most benevolent the most wise is the best of planners
A large volume of experimental research in childhood psychology has established that infants and toddlers demonstrate compassion, empathy, as well as a sense of fairness and justice. The psychologist Paul Bloom outlines copious evidence in his book, Just Babies – The Origins of Good and Evil. Bloom notes that, “Developmental psychologists have long observed that one-year olds will pat and soothe others in distress.”8
There is also a clear capacity to discriminate moral good from evil at a strikingly early age. When five month old children were shown puppets demonstrating good behaviour (like helping to open a box or rolling a ball back) and other puppets demonstrating bad behaviour (like slamming the box shut or stealing the ball), the children invariably preferred the good puppets.9Eight-month old infants even demonstrate a sense of disciplinary justice – they prefer a puppet that is mean to the bad puppet over one that is nice to the bad puppet; and at 21 months of age, toddlers will prefer to reward the good puppet with a treat and prefer to remove a treat from the bad puppet.10
This fairness and justice arises from the fitrah. Ibn Taymiyyah (d.728H) writes, “Souls are naturally disposed (majbula) to love justice and its supporters, and to hate injustice and its supporters; this love, which is in the fitra, is what is meant for [justice] to be good.”11 The moral values upon which we construct our lives stem from the intuitions which naturally arise in childhood and which are not stamped out by overriding sociocultural pressures.12
http://spiritualperception.org/fitrah-the-primordial-nature-of-man/
VixR
Veritas
I don't remember saying we aren't capable of kindness or don't understand it.
Would you claim the opposite, that children aren't capable of selfish behaviors. Or are you trying to argue it's ("evil") purely a question of nurture, and by nature we are good and holy?
I get out, I'll get out of all your boxesI think you are conflicted. Living a fantasy that doesn't exist.
We have fitrah
Goes on to list real and perceived ills of man based on race :siilaanyosmile:
I get out, you can't hold me in these chains
I'll get out
Father free me from this bondage
Knowin' my condition
Is the reason I must change
Your stinkin' resolution
Is no type of solution
Preventin' me from freedom
Maintainin' your pollution
I won't support your lie no more
I won't even try no more
If I have to die, oh Lord
That's how I choose to live
I won't be compromised no more
I can't be victimised no more
I just don't sympathize no more
'cause now I understand
You just want to use me
You say "love" then abuse me
You never thought you'd loose me
But how quickly we forget
That nothin' is for certain
You thought I'd stay here hurtin'
Your guilt trip's just not workin'
Repressin' me to death
'cause now I'm choosin' life, yo
I'll take the sacrifice, yo
If everything must go, then go
That's how I choose to live
Heh... hehehehehe...
Ok, we gettin' there
At least I had a chunk
Aight ok, it's how I choose to live
Hehehe, awww
No more compromises
I see past your diguises
Blindin' through mind control
Stealin' my eternal soul
Appealin' through material
To keep me as your slave
But I get out
Oh, I get out of all your boxes
I'll get out
Oh, you can't hold me in these chains
I get out
Oh, I want out of social bondage
Knowin' my condition
Oh, is the reason I must change
See what you see is what you get
Oh, and you ain't seen nothin' yet
Oh, I don't care if you're upset
I could care less if you're upset
See it don't change the truth
And your hurt feeling's no excuse
To keep me in this box
Psychological locks
Repressin' true expression
Cementin' this repression
Promotin' mass deception
So that no one can be healed
I don't respect your system
I won't protect your system
When you talk I don't listen
Oh, let my Father's will be done
And just get out
Oh, just get out of all these bondage
Just get out
Oh, you can't hold me in chains
Just get out
All these traditions killin' freedom
Knowin' my condition
Is the reason I must change
I've just accepted what you said
Keepin' me among the dead
The only way to know
Is to walk then learn and grow
But faith is not your speed
Oh, you've had everyone believed
That you're the sole authority
Just follow the majority
Afraid to face reality
The system is a joke
Oh, you'd be smart to save your soul
Oh, when escape is mind control
You spent your life in sacrifice
To a system for the dead
Oh, are you sure...
Where is the passion in this living
Are you sure it's God you servin'
Obligated to a system
Getting less then you're deserving
Who made up these schools, I say
Who made up these rules, I say
Animal conditioning
Oh, just to keep us as a slave
Oh, just get out
Of this social purgatory
Just get out
All these traditions are alive
Just get out
Superstition killing freedom
Knowin' my condition
Is the reason I must die, ahh
Just get out
Just get out
Just get out
Let's get out
Let's get out
Knowin' my condition
Is the reason I must die
Just get out
There is also a clear capacity to discriminate moral good from evil at a strikingly early age. When five month old children were shown puppets demonstrating good behaviour (like helping to open a box or rolling a ball back) and other puppets demonstrating bad behaviour (like slamming the box shut or stealing the ball), the children invariably preferred the good puppets.9Eight-month old infants even demonstrate a sense of disciplinary justice – they prefer a puppet that is mean to the bad puppet over one that is nice to the bad puppet; and at 21 months of age, toddlers will prefer to reward the good puppet with a treat and prefer to remove a treat from the bad puppet.10
VixR
Veritas
That doesn't tell me anything
We like happy endings in movies, that's why they're always so pathetically illogical and play to our emotions. That doesn't make us, the viewers, good.
Wallahi it's you who's conflicted
In one such dialogue, The Meno, Socrates takes an ignorant slave boy and, by asking him a series of questions, manages to extract from him the fundamental axioms and rules of geometry. Having done so, Socrates insists that the boy knew the foundations of geometry all along. He had merely forgotten them. In Plato’s belief, each person is born with an innate knowledge of things; including knowledge of what is good and evil, right and wrong. Thus a baby lives close to the truth, but as it grows up it forgets and so falls into ignorance. Through proper inquiry, Plato suggested, knowledge may again be “recollected”.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/theh...e-natural-primordial-faith/amp/?client=safari
In one such dialogue, The Meno, Socrates takes an ignorant slave boy and, by asking him a series of questions, manages to extract from him the fundamental axioms and rules of geometry. Having done so, Socrates insists that the boy knew the foundations of geometry all along. He had merely forgotten them. In Plato’s belief, each person is born with an innate knowledge of things; including knowledge of what is good and evil, right and wrong. Thus a baby lives close to the truth, but as it grows up it forgets and so falls into ignorance. Through proper inquiry, Plato suggested, knowledge may again be “recollected”.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/theh...e-natural-primordial-faith/amp/?client=safari
My question is if a child knows the difference between good & evil when the child is a baby where did the baby learn this from?
That doesn't tell me anything
We like happy endings in movies, that's why they're always so pathetically illogical and play to our emotions. That doesn't make us, the viewers, good.
VixR
Veritas
Lemme guess the answer, he learned it from god bc fitrah?
I never challenged our simplistic understanding of basic justice. Morality is much bigger question than puppets and infants, and it's contrived of both DNA and environment (nature and nurture), both of which have historically tended towards the negative. We are getting better as people.
Take racism.
It's something that's perceived as evil, but it's a bias that's inherent within us.
It's something we fight against our baser selves to "overcome".
A lot of things are like that.
Lemme guess the answer, he learned it from god bc fitrah?
I never challenged our simplistic understanding of basic justice. Morality is much bigger question than puppets and infants, and it's contrived of both DNA and environment (nature and nurture), both of which have historically tender towards the negative.
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