G25 results & models (relevant discussions as well)
- Thread starter Garaad Awal
- Start date
Not surprising, there used to be Cumar maxamud who were part of Jameecada.
Reer Ugaas Sharmaarke
Your right I double checked. But the other Somalis not from Gedo, are actually not my 2nd cousins but third.Not surprising, there used to be Cumar maxamud who were part of Jameecada.
Reer Ugaas Sharmaarke
Sorry for the delay, I don't get notifications. Are my coordinates something I can derive from my 23andme raw data file? That's what I uploaded to illustrative.
raws can be found on the left side of illustratedna.
By contrast, in various autosomal DNA studies, the northern Nilotes have appeared to be almost completely of African ancestry. For example, in the African Genome Variation Project’s analysis, the Dinka sample showed no extraneous influence at K=2 (cf. Gurdasani et al. (2015)).
This apparent lack of non-African affinities is why the Dinka, Nuer and other northern Nilotes have often been used by researchers as proxies for the African component. In 2017, Skoglund et al. compared the same AGVP Dinka sample to that of an ancient South Cushitic pastoralist (Luxmanda), the first such specimen to be genetically analyzed. In their admixture analysis, the Dinka individuals now all of a sudden showed almost 30% non-African ancestry at the K=2 level. Judging by the existing uniparental marker data, it’s pretty clear why that is: there was non-African ancestry buried within the northern Nilote gene pool, and that ancestry was specifically derived from earlier Cushitic peoples such as Luxmanda.This, in a nutshell, explains why the Dinka, Nuer and other northern Nilotes often fit well as proxies for the African component in admixture testing models. However, the problem with using such admixed groups in these analyses is that doing so leads to highly distorted estimates of ancestry proportions. For example, let’s say a researcher is testing admixture models on qpAdm and finds that his modern Cushitic or Ethiosemitic-speaking population is best modeled as 50% Neolithic Levantine + 50% Dinka. What that program is really telling him is that his sample is best modeled as 50% Neolithic Levantine + X% ancient Nilotic + X% ancient Cushitic.
This again stems from the fact that the Dinka are not a purely African population, but rather a Nilote-descended community with significant Cushitic admixture (whence was derived their non-African ancestry). When factoring in the ~30% of non-African ancestry that Skoglund et al. (2017) detected in their Dinka reference sample, the estimated whole genome ancestry apportionment then actually becomes 50% Neolithic Levantine + 35% African + 15% unclassified Eurasian. This necessary adjustment therefore brings the non-African total to around 65%. The same corrective adjustment would have to be made if the African reference sample were a southern Nilotic group, such as the Maasai Nilotes (e.g. when the ~30% of West Eurasian admixture in Ali et al. (2020)‘s East African proxy sample (Maasai) is taken into account, the estimated non-African ancestry for their northeastern Somali sample rises to 70%; this more accurate total is close to Hodgson et al.’s 66% average for their general ethnic Somali sample).
That’s also before correcting for linkage disequilibrium bias, which, as Hodgson et al. (2014) observed and Choudhury et al. (2020) also demonstrated, would increase the Cushitic speakers’ Eurasian total even further. Put simply, there is considerable extra non-African ancestry in the genome of the Afro-Asiatic-speaking sample which is not being counted. This results in an inaccurate overall estimation of ancestry proportions. It also conflicts with scientific data gathered through other means (viz. craniometric analysis, anthropometric analysis, linguistics).
The maternal haplogroups distributed today among the northern Cushitic and Ethiosemitic-speaking populations in the Horn of Africa do not support the claim that there was significant admixture between their Afro-Asiatic-speaking male ancestors and Nilotic females. This idea first gained prominence after the publication of Watson et al. (1996) and Watson et al. (1997), two early mtDNA studies which reported that the analyzed Somali (sampled in Kenya) and Tuareg Berber (sampled in Niger) individuals primarily belonged to the L3 mtDNA haplogroup. Comas et al. (1999) similarly indicated that only 5%-27% of Ethiopians bore non-African mtDNA lineages. However, it turns out that these results were inaccurate since the L3 macroclade’s phylogeny had not yet been fully resolved. Specifically, many of the samples that were at the time presumed to represent L3 carriers actually belonged to derivatives of the N haplogroup. Martin Richards, who served as a co-author on Watson et al. (1997), explains the situation thusly:
source:
@Garaad Awal
What do you think of this?
This apparent lack of non-African affinities is why the Dinka, Nuer and other northern Nilotes have often been used by researchers as proxies for the African component. In 2017, Skoglund et al. compared the same AGVP Dinka sample to that of an ancient South Cushitic pastoralist (Luxmanda), the first such specimen to be genetically analyzed. In their admixture analysis, the Dinka individuals now all of a sudden showed almost 30% non-African ancestry at the K=2 level. Judging by the existing uniparental marker data, it’s pretty clear why that is: there was non-African ancestry buried within the northern Nilote gene pool, and that ancestry was specifically derived from earlier Cushitic peoples such as Luxmanda.This, in a nutshell, explains why the Dinka, Nuer and other northern Nilotes often fit well as proxies for the African component in admixture testing models. However, the problem with using such admixed groups in these analyses is that doing so leads to highly distorted estimates of ancestry proportions. For example, let’s say a researcher is testing admixture models on qpAdm and finds that his modern Cushitic or Ethiosemitic-speaking population is best modeled as 50% Neolithic Levantine + 50% Dinka. What that program is really telling him is that his sample is best modeled as 50% Neolithic Levantine + X% ancient Nilotic + X% ancient Cushitic.
This again stems from the fact that the Dinka are not a purely African population, but rather a Nilote-descended community with significant Cushitic admixture (whence was derived their non-African ancestry). When factoring in the ~30% of non-African ancestry that Skoglund et al. (2017) detected in their Dinka reference sample, the estimated whole genome ancestry apportionment then actually becomes 50% Neolithic Levantine + 35% African + 15% unclassified Eurasian. This necessary adjustment therefore brings the non-African total to around 65%. The same corrective adjustment would have to be made if the African reference sample were a southern Nilotic group, such as the Maasai Nilotes (e.g. when the ~30% of West Eurasian admixture in Ali et al. (2020)‘s East African proxy sample (Maasai) is taken into account, the estimated non-African ancestry for their northeastern Somali sample rises to 70%; this more accurate total is close to Hodgson et al.’s 66% average for their general ethnic Somali sample).
That’s also before correcting for linkage disequilibrium bias, which, as Hodgson et al. (2014) observed and Choudhury et al. (2020) also demonstrated, would increase the Cushitic speakers’ Eurasian total even further. Put simply, there is considerable extra non-African ancestry in the genome of the Afro-Asiatic-speaking sample which is not being counted. This results in an inaccurate overall estimation of ancestry proportions. It also conflicts with scientific data gathered through other means (viz. craniometric analysis, anthropometric analysis, linguistics).
The maternal haplogroups distributed today among the northern Cushitic and Ethiosemitic-speaking populations in the Horn of Africa do not support the claim that there was significant admixture between their Afro-Asiatic-speaking male ancestors and Nilotic females. This idea first gained prominence after the publication of Watson et al. (1996) and Watson et al. (1997), two early mtDNA studies which reported that the analyzed Somali (sampled in Kenya) and Tuareg Berber (sampled in Niger) individuals primarily belonged to the L3 mtDNA haplogroup. Comas et al. (1999) similarly indicated that only 5%-27% of Ethiopians bore non-African mtDNA lineages. However, it turns out that these results were inaccurate since the L3 macroclade’s phylogeny had not yet been fully resolved. Specifically, many of the samples that were at the time presumed to represent L3 carriers actually belonged to derivatives of the N haplogroup. Martin Richards, who served as a co-author on Watson et al. (1997), explains the situation thusly:
source:
@Garaad Awal
What do you think of this?
@NidarNidar This is correct that Nilotes have a small Eurasian affinity but it has nothing to do with Cushitic speakers, it is most likely due to there phylogenetic position relative to other Africans and Eurasians.
The ancestors of East Africans like Dinka and Mota split off from the ancestors of Eurasians and North Africans long after West, Central and Southern Africans meaning that East Africans share more recent common ancestry with Eurasians so naturally they will have a greater affinity with Eurasians than other Africans do, West Africans share more recent common ancestry with Eurasians than Central Africans partially due to splitting off later than them which also results in them being closer to Eurasians relative to Eurasians.
We can say with certainty that Niltoes have no proper Eurasian ancestry because they score little to no Neanderthal ancestry which is found amongst all Eurasian people and the fact that there Eurasian ancestry shows no strong preference for East or West Eurasian ancestry meaning there Eurasian ancestry did not go through the West-East split which occurred around 45,000 years ago.
The ancestors of East Africans like Dinka and Mota split off from the ancestors of Eurasians and North Africans long after West, Central and Southern Africans meaning that East Africans share more recent common ancestry with Eurasians so naturally they will have a greater affinity with Eurasians than other Africans do, West Africans share more recent common ancestry with Eurasians than Central Africans partially due to splitting off later than them which also results in them being closer to Eurasians relative to Eurasians.
We can say with certainty that Niltoes have no proper Eurasian ancestry because they score little to no Neanderthal ancestry which is found amongst all Eurasian people and the fact that there Eurasian ancestry shows no strong preference for East or West Eurasian ancestry meaning there Eurasian ancestry did not go through the West-East split which occurred around 45,000 years ago.
You are correct brother, I continued reading the article and some of this guy's points were correct but were extremely Eurocentric, I continued reading other articles and he included outdated racist ideologies.
Garaad Awal
War is coming.
Reduced 5 pops (all ancients excluding the Medieval Nubians):
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Damn it! For a second there, I thought you were him...
I ain't that racist.Racist as he is, that blog is a goldmine. Been meaning to get into contact with him for the longest time. Found him on Anthrogenica, but before I could contact him, the site was down forever
Doctorabdi
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Garaad Awal
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Warya someone asking me which one of these is the Habar Awal sub clade and the Ashraaf one.
E-BY155996 YTree
Doctorabdi
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Warya someone asking me which one of these is the Habar Awal sub clade and the Ashraaf one.
E-BY155996 YTree
www.yfull.com
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Garaad Awal
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Doctorabdi
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Last edited:
More than Moroccans? I can definitely see that being true for the Saharan communities in Morocco that retain a Berber language and identity but your average city-goer in Agadir or Rabat? Isn't Somali Arabian less than 10% or am I wrong here?
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