Half Italian Somalis hold press conference

[Mudug_gyal]

@

𐒁𐒚𐒒𐒂𐒘𐒂𐒗 𐒎𐒚𐒗𐒗𐒒 we need a thread on this sis. Jajaabii ​

 

[Ozymandias]

@Khaemwaset this is the world we live in, very distasteful, what can I say

 

[Khaem]

@Khaemwaset this is the world we live in, very distasteful, what can I say

I was originally a man who would say "live and let them be"
But I understand why elder gens were more strict.

 

[Ozymandias]

naag somaaliyeed o walaasha misa ehelkaaga ahayn weliga ha caawinin, wa cadow isqarinaya o shisheeye soo dhoweynaya, waaba wa gabdho maskaxda ka xanuusan

 

[Mudug_gyal]

I was originally a man who would say "live and let them be"
But I understand why elder gens were more strict.

a lot of tribes come from a non somali father and somali mother. Dir and issaq for example descend from aqeel ibn abi talib whilst darood comes from jabarti. Therefore this whole lineage thing is nonsense

 

[محمود فارح]

a lot of tribes come from a non somali father and somali mother. Dir and issaq for example descend from aqeel ibn abi talib whilst darood comes from jabarti. Therefore this whole lineage thing is nonsense

You always use this card, there are tribes that claim to be Indians so it is not a standard and this has been refuted

 

[Mudug_gyal]

You always use this card, there are tribes that claim to be Indians so it is not a standard and this has been refuted

Are you trying to say we are a bunch of garacs with no asal? ceeb ceeb. Also you shouldnt be trying to convince me. Tell your fellow men that

 

[The alchemist]

a lot of tribes come from a non somali father and somali mother. Dir and issaq for example descend from aqeel ibn abi talib whilst darood comes from jabarti. Therefore this whole lineage thing is nonsense

Those were myths to associate with the Prophet (PBUH) for tribes to give themselves extra legitimacy during political and power-related contexts, not Arab men who came and started anything. We know the progenitors of the clans were Somalis, not foreigners.

The female line has more foreign origin because we have always been patriarchal and patrilocal, alhamdulillah.

Islamically, the lineage goes through the father. If your father is Japanese your lineage comes from the people of Japan. This is basic.

 

[Angelina]

naag somaaliyeed o walaasha misa ehelkaaga ahayn weliga ha caawinin, wa cadow isqarinaya o shisheeye soo dhoweynaya, waaba wa gabdho maskaxda ka xanuusan

When you lot marry ajnabi women it’s fine, but when a Somali women has a child with an ajnabi we’re meant to deny them any citizenship? How does that benefit Somali women? What’s cadow is the fact that you lot get all the benefits but want to deny Somali women’s rights to give their children their passport.

 

[Mudug_gyal]

Those were myths to associate with the Prophet (PBUH) for tribes to give themselves extra legitimacy during political and power-related contexts, not Arab men who came and started anything. We know the progenitors of the clans were Somalis, not foreigners.

The female line has more foreign origin because we have always been patriarchal and patrilocal, alhamdulillah.

Islamically, the lineage goes through the father. If your father is Japanese your lineage comes from the people of Japan. This is basic.

So we lost the real patrilineal lineage because somali men wanted to be arab sheegads ceeb badana wheres the real one then?

 

[Bari]

Somali citizenship isnt that big of a deal, claiming their mothers qabil is where the line is drawn.

 

[𐒁𐒚𐒒𐒂𐒘𐒂𐒗 𐒎𐒚𐒗𐒗𐒒]

naag somaaliyeed o walaasha misa ehelkaaga ahayn weliga ha caawinin, wa cadow isqarinaya o shisheeye soo dhoweynaya, waaba wa gabdho maskaxda ka xanuusan

Didn't you say that you aren't a Muslim.



In Somalia, a Somali woman with a foreign husband has more say than you.

The jokes write themselves.

 

[𐒁𐒚𐒒𐒂𐒘𐒂𐒗 𐒎𐒚𐒗𐒗𐒒]

@Mudug_gyal

In real life, Somali women even get their foreign husbands to support their clan's political leanings. Look up Matt Bryden and his stance on Somaliland.

And these women are never shunned from their community, they are well-connected.

 

[Mudug_gyal]

@The alchemist I will stop arguing for my foreign kids to gain citizenship the moment Somali men stop claiming foreign lineage. Fair?

 

[Mudug_gyal]

sis the hypocrisy is staggering @

𐒁𐒚𐒒𐒂𐒘𐒂𐒗 𐒎𐒚𐒗𐒗𐒒​

 

[The alchemist]

So we lost the real patrilineal lineage because somali men wanted to be arab sheegads ceeb badana wheres the real one then?

The real lineages were always the same. It was about lying to connect with the lineage of the Prophet (PBUH) for legitimacy, not to claim random Arab origin. No Somali clan pretended to be Arab and only thought of it as an Islamic connection. This was not unique; many people in the Islamic world, unrelated to Arabs, claim they hail from the Prophet's (PBUH) lineage to imbue their lineage with legitimacy. The majority of which were false claims.

 

[Ozymandias]

You know what, you ladies do have a point, i'm overly invested with a group of people that I am disappointed with

 

[Mudug_gyal]

The real lineages were always the same. It was about lying to connect with the lineage of the Prophet (PBUH) for legitimacy, not to claim random Arab origin. No Somali clan pretended to be Arab and only thought of it as an Islamic connection. This was not unique; many people in the Islamic world, unrelated to Arabs, claim they hail from the Prophet's (PBUH) lineage to imbue their lineage with legitimacy. The majority of which were false claims.

I beg to differ. I have seen many daroods and dirs claim to be arab. Using that logic, children of somali mothers should be as somali as us its acc shocking for me to find out we use a fake lineage, are our origins unknown?

 

[Khaem]

I beg to differ. I have seen many daroods and dirs claim to be arab. Using that logic, children of somali mothers should be as somali as us its acc shocking for me to find out we use a fake lineage, are our origins unknown?

THE SOMALIS: THEIR ORIGINS, MIGRATIONS & SETTLEMENTS

Shaykh Abdulaziz Mosque, ninth century, Mogadishu Courtesy R.W.S. Hudson A paucity of written historical evidence forces the student of early Somalia to depend on the findings of archeology, anthropology, historical linguistics, and related disciplines. Such evidence has provided insights that...

www.somalispot.com

 

[Angelina]

I do not deny that the Somali tribal lineage system is patriarchal and goes from father to son, I do not however, believe that has or should have a bearing on nationality. You can’t use Islam and culture on a concept that is foriegn and new. Somalia, Somaliland, Djibouti and you name it, did not exist before European contact and it is in essence a Western invention. If the idea of women being able to give passports to their offspring is Western, then so is the very idea of nationhood citizenship and ‘passports’. The fact that we have non Somali ethnic groups considered as Somali nationals despite being from various ethnic origins is an indicator that a Somali national identity is indeed separate to tribe and ethnicity.

As for posters like @Khaemwaset. Whilst I heavily disagree with you, you’re consistent and follow a logic that I can understand. You believe that Somalia is or should strictly be based on an ethno- identity and that Somalia should be a country that doesn’t include those that don’t have Somali forefathers including the Bantus and Banadiris.

What does not make sense to me is those that don’t see Somalia as an ethno-state but still want to bar women from giving their child their passport. Those types are illogical to me.