Harar is named after a Somali tree

[Step a side]

I think MSA would also be a West-Semitic subbranch. I recall a linguist saying as much. But, overall, Midas' point is that the substra in MSA and Ethiosemitic, whether they're specially connected or not, points to the possibility of Yemen originally being very Cushitic inhabited which archaeologically tracks because the Cushitic pastoralist artwork known across Sudan, Ethiopia and Somalia was also found in Yemen pre-historically so much so that it's called "The Ethio-Arabian style" by some.

Not to mention that Horner stelae culture also seems to have spread to Yemen quite early and that as recently as the Early Modern era Somalis and other other Horners had a wildly strong presence in Yemen (1.5 million+ Somalis before the war) which sort of implies to you how easy it's always been to be up there in strong numbers. His theory definitely has merit that Yemen was once a Cushitic stronghold before the Semites came in droves from the Levant and usurped them. Archaeologically and linguistically it almost seems a certainty.

I believe that linguist was that Jewish student on Anthrogenica. The Cushitic influence in Arabia is real and it pre-dates the introduction of Semitic languages entering the horn which is recent. The latter I believe is an early Iron Age/ Late Bronze Age introduction while the Cushitic influence is from before the old south Arabians reached Yemen from further north.

Basically what I am saying in simple terms is that when the Semitic languages entered Eritrea there were already old south Arabian languages in western Yemen adjacent to the Red Sea. @Midas will have you believe that old south Arabian were not in Yemen yet when the Semitic languages were entering the horn which is wrong.

 

[Step a side]

If you listen to msa it sounds just like arabic so thats not really helpful.

Modern south Arabian is not even on the video

Latest research? Show me this latest research you keep mentioning lol I will wait.

 

[Midas]

I believe that linguist was that Jewish student on Anthrogenica. The Cushitic influence in Arabia is real and it pre-dates the introduction of Semitic languages entering the horn which is recent. The latter I believe is an early Iron Age/ Late Bronze Age introduction while the Cushitic influence is from before the old south Arabians reached Yemen from further north.

Basically what I am saying in simple terms is that when the Semitic languages entered Eritrea there were already old south Arabian languages in western Yemen adjacent to the Red Sea. @Midas will have you believe that old south Arabian were not in Yemen yet when the Semitic languages were entering the horn which is wrong.

What? That's not at all what I'm saying. Im saying that The first semetic lanaguges to arrive in south arabia was old south arabian probably around the bronzge age collapse around 1200 b.c then from their like 400 years later it arrives in ethiopia and slowly ge'ez emerges .

 

[Step a side]

What? That's not at all what I'm saying. Im saying that The first semetic lanaguges to arrive in south arabia was old south arabian probably around the bronzge age collapse around 1200 b.c then from their like 400 years later it arrives in ethiopia and slowly ge'ez emerges .

Good! Now you have got it right.

Modern South is separate from Old South & Ethio- Semitic. The latter two are grouped with Arabic in a central Semitic phylum while MSA is completely isolated.

 

[Midas]

Modern south Arabian is not even on the video

Latest research? Show me this latest research you keep mentioning lol I will wait.

I'm taking about if you look at YouTube videos where people are talking in msa . Not this video specifically. Also the first I guy i screenshotted on reddit is a professional linguistics professor who specializes in berber and semetic lanaguges. You can literally look him up on twitter he works at Leiden university and has his own blog. His name is marjin van putten

 

[Hotchick12]

I was given a short extract from Richard Burtons book which states that the city of Harar was named after a local tree found in the region. I did some digging and found a large 200 page oxfam study done by Desmond Mahony where i did a bit of reading and found not one, but two native Somali trees that are named after Harar. So i decided to create an Etymology section of the Harar Wikipedia page and did a bit of writing ifykyk

Here's Richard burtons book titled "First footsteps into east Africa" don't take it as hard proof after all it is a piece of orientalism.
Here is the Oxfam study i found that did research on trees in Somalia. "Trees of Somalia - A field guide for development workers"

Here is the part where it talks about the "Harar" and "Haraari" trees in Somalia

Spoiler: Harar

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Here is where it talks about the "Haraare tree"

Spoiler: Haraare

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As you can see by the section "Where found in Somalia" I chose to include the Haraare tree in the wikipedia instead of the "Harar" since the former is found in the somali region meanwhile the "Harar" tree is found in southern Somalia. This is still important to note as this only tells us that the name for Harar is native to Somalis if people as far as Jubaland call this specific species of tree "Harar"

Also the segment of Richard Burton's book that tells us that the name Harar originates from a tree:

View attachment 336127


Here is a list of Somali trees found in the book;
View attachment 336128

harar is a somali city that has been co-opted by its barwaani inhabitants mixed inhabitants which is a new ethnicity

 

[Midas]

Good! Now you have got it right.

Modern South is separate from Old South & Ethio- Semitic. The latter two are grouped with Arabic in a central Semitic phylum while MSA is completely isolated.

Bro stop playing with me are you doing this on purpose? This is the 2nd time you misunderstood what I said.

Old South Arabian is a central semetic lanaguge.

Currently ethipsemetic and msa have are just considered branches of west semetic since the orginal south semetic group collapsed.

 

[Step a side]

Also the first I guy i screenshotted on reddit is a professional linguistics professor who specializes in berber and semetic lanaguges. You can literally look him up on twitter he works at Leiden university and has his own blog. His name is marjin van putten

I don’t disagree with that Reddit user. He didn’t say anything about Ethiopian Semitic languages at all. That’s my whole point. Ethio-Semitic is grouped with its parent/sibling branch Old South Arabian from across the Red Sea.

 

[Midas]

What? That's not at all what I'm saying. Im saying that The first semetic lanaguges to arrive in south arabia was old south arabian probably around the bronzge age collapse around 1200 b.c then from their like 400 years later it arrives in ethiopia and slowly ge'ez emerges .

Ge'ez as script only emerged in the first century a.d that's almost 900 years after the first sabaic insciriptons appear in ethiopia .

 

[Step a side]

Bro stop playing with me are you doing this on purpose? This is the 2nd time you misunderstood what I said.

Old South Arabian is a central semetic lanaguge.

Currently ethipsemetic and msa have are just considered branches of west semetic since the orginal south semetic group collapsed.

Nah you are wrong! The guys that colonised Eritrea are those Arabs from western Yemen from across the Red Sea not some random ghost population that somehow managed to reach the African coast bypassing Old Sourh Arabian speaking tribes lol

 

[Midas]

Nah you are wrong! The guys that colonised Eritrea are those Arabs from western Yemen from across the Red Sea not some random ghost population that somehow managed to reach the African coast bypassing Old Sourh Arabian speaking tribes lol

The people who colonized eritrea are the old south arabian tribes who first arrived in yemen most likely becuase of migrations from northern Arabia after the bronze age collapse. I didn't mention any ghost pouplation at all? Are you talking about the cushitic speakers that I sisd likely inhabited yemen before?

 

[Shimbiris]

Some new finds shared with me by @Idilinaa:

19th century court documents from Harar and new Arabic sources.

Amazing stuff!!! I noticed it says Habar Awali, so it might be an Isaaq. The Somali names stick out Hiraab, Bare

Btw the Emir is described as the Sultan of Somalis by a European explorer. I have actually shared this in another thread

I think when you combine the information from my Futuh thread with all the archaeological data shared on there by @The alchemist and even the etymology of the city's name and the historical fact that it was founded in its current state by Nur Ibn Mujahid who has been confirmed by non-Somali scholars to be a Somali, it becomes pretty open and shut that Harar is basically a historically Somali town.

@Midas

 

[Yami]

Some new finds shared with me by @Idilinaa:



I think when you combine the information from my Futuh thread with all the archaeological data shared on there by @The alchemist and even the etymology of the city's name and the historical fact that it was founded in its current state by Nur Ibn Mujahid who has been confirmed by non-Somali scholars to be a Somali, it becomes pretty open and shut that Harar is basically a historically Somali town.

@Midas

19th century Harari court records make direct mention to Habar awal often this is not a surprise. Many wealthy HAs from Berbera would send their children to study in harar, the most famous example being sheikh madar one of hargeisa’s founders

 

[Idilinaa]

19th century Harari court records make direct mention to Habar awal often this is not a surprise. Many wealthy HAs from Berbera would send their children to study in harar, the most famous example being sheikh madar one of hargeisa’s founders

Richard Burton mentions Habr Awal settled in the hills of Harar and their position in Berbera, they are mentioned quite frequently throughout his journey.

So the fact that one of the Malaqs an adminstrative rank directly below the Emir is one, is the least surprising detail.

 

[Shimbiris]

Richard Burton mentions Habr Awal settled in the hills of Harar and their position in Berbera, they are mentioned quite frequently throughout his journey.

So the fact that one of the Malaqs an adminstrative rank directly below the Emir is one, is the least surprising detail.

He also mentions that some Habar Awal men are citizens of Harar when he visits. Describes them the same way he describes this Hawiye. "Man from Harar" or something like that.

 

[Idilinaa]