Most of the people in this forum are young and naiveJust to add to this i prefer Somalis to not repeat christian white right wing talking points of welfare or criminality nonsense when it comes to Somali immigrants, these people will despise you regardless if you live in their land or you live back in your homeland., regardless if you work or not work, if you commit crime or not commit crime. They will just spew propaganda to cast you in a bad light.
It's not what you do that's a problem to them, it's what you represent as a Black/African, Muslim they have a problem with.
Take for example the state of Maine i shared stats on, articles and posts to show how much of a model success story Somali immigrants have been for that city.
This did not prevent Donald Trump and their right wing co-horts in smearing Somali population in Maine with slanderous lies about crime, when did his campaigning
Trump’s statements about Somali immigrants in Maine draw rebuke
Trump’s statements about Somali immigrants in Maine draw rebuke
The Republican presidential nominee hints at a correlation between Somali immigrants and more crime, but local police chiefs say property crime and violent crime are down.www.pressherald.com
Let me remind you that , Somalis have not formed gangs or participated in crime and their own police department came out against what Donald Trump said. They still tried to pin that narrative on us.
So it's important to not try to locate and perceive your own people through the minds of these cadaan gaalos or racists online. What we should do instead is study ourselves to improve things, and adopt a pragmatic approach rooted in identifying our own best interests.
Hassan Sheikh Mohamud: “I will take back all our migrants from Germany!”
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thousand of ciyaal suuq with gaalo mindset set free in somalia doesn't sound good
I believe they most often conflate the rate of unemployment with welfare recipients. So i doubt it is 70%, much lower than that and they are not sending welfare money back to Somalia like the study i showed you , it doesn't leave room for extra to even do that as the people they have interviewed told them.
I have never said they are taboo topics that shouldn't be discussed and i have freely talked about Somalis in mainland Europe and how they face employment barriers which are listed below
I wouldn't say they are on par with American Somalis, Australian or UAE Somalis who are in more open market capitalist environments
But they are doing better than mainland Europeans Somalis because of the more open business climate, with less barriers. It's one of the biggest reasons why mainland European Somalis move there
I also talk about how the 2nd generation have a higher employment participation rate, nearing 70% or more.
But here is a like a statline that show 2nd generation Scandinavians born to immigrant parents which Somalis are included in : 87,3 percent of them are in education/&or employment vs 89,9% with native born parents.
Why do i bring up Maine and American Somalis in general and the 2nd generation? because they break the myth of Somalis not wanting to work and rely on welfare.
Figures for Somalis in Minnesota's largest county, they rely on less welfare than white americans.
Rochester, Minn. / Many Somalis getting off welfare
Abdifatah Abdinur spoke no English when his family immigrated here in 1995, but he can still remember how embarrassed he was at needing food stamps. “Somali men and women like to be independe…
www.twincities.com
Minnesota Somali statewide employment rates is similar to the rest as well
You can also add Australian Somalis to the list who have an employment rate of 62% which a percent chunk of this are in skilled managerial and professional occupations, closely corresponding the general population of 70%.
It has to do with the difference in labor market and the barriers to entry, not because they are lazy and don't want to work and rely on welfare, so they can send it back.
The problem i have with the welfare discourse, which i have discussed before. It's because it's used as poor bashing ethnic migrants and create false abuse and fraud narratives. They don't just do this to European Somalis, they do it to American Somalis and even Canadian Somalis.
Exploit the system is misleading framing and its untrue. They are using the services that is given to them, much like the natives are but are more reliant on them because of their economic situation as refugees.
For example in the book ''Poor Bashing: The Politics of Exclusion'' they showed that allegations of rampant welfare scam/fraud in Canadian Somalis were constantly being reported on the news even when the govt investigated on it found any evidence of it and these allegations were baseless.
The criminality part is also nonsensical. It is not linked to non-western immigration at all, the Maine case is perfect example to show this. Why would Somalis in one area bring crime or gangs but in another area there is none? and its actually lower and more safe? Because crime is a combination of placing them in unsafe low income neighborhoods and exclusion.
Maine has embraced Somalis and their neighborhoods they settled into were safer, so it shows. You can also find this in other places.
Do you know what is also is more perfect case to illustrate the exclusion factor being a reason behind this?
It is this experiment they ran in Denmark where they gave local voting rights and increased civic participation for non-western immigrants and it reduced their crime by a whooping 60%.
Democratic Involvement and Immigrants’ Compliance with the Law
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It costs thousands of dollars to tahriib to Europe surely the truly poor can’t afford this. Most of these people are middle class folks in Somalia enamoured by TikTok videos thinking life is easy and money grows on trees.
They then get addicted to drugs due to reality not meeting fantasy. Theres been many cases of random stabbings and youths on a drunken rage in Germany. Enough is enough.
They can't afford it, that's why they hold them at ransom. It's not just Somalis who tahrib, lots of north africans, east africans, middle eastern countries and southeast asians ones and even chinese.
Do you know how many Chinese tahriib to Europe and America in droves?
‘Disillusioned about China’, more Chinese aim for US via risky Darien Gap
In 2023, Chinese migrants become the largest group outside the Americas to cross the treacherous region to reach the US.
They all have one thing in common they are fleeing a terrible economic situation in their home country.
Why do you think Norwegians, Japanese and many other European nations mass migrated to America throughout the 1800s & early 1900s and it completely halted from the mid 1900s til today and none want to migrate there anymore?
Becomes their home countries economy developed and improved.
So improve the economic situation for them back home and provide them with opportunities and they will stay. Show them that there is something for them in their homeland with tangible stuff.
You're arguing against a straw man. My point is simple: most Somalis in Western Europe receive welfare, do not work, and much of the remittance sent back is welfare money. I’m specifically referencing Western Europe here. I’ve shown how labor alone can’t be the source of remittance due to high unemployment rates. Around 70% of Somalis in Western Europe receive some form of benefits, and even those who work often still rely on them because they’re part of the working poor.I believe they most often conflate the rate of unemployment with welfare recipients. So i doubt it is 70%, much lower than that and they are not sending welfare money back to Somalia like the study i showed you , it doesn't leave room for extra to even do that as the people they have interviewed told them.
I have never said they are taboo topics that shouldn't be discussed and i have freely talked about Somalis in mainland Europe and how they face employment barriers which are listed below
I also talk about how the 2nd generation have a higher employment participation rate, nearing 70% or more.
Why do i bring up Maine and American Somalis in general and the 2nd generation? because they break the myth of Somalis not wanting to work and rely on welfare.
Figures for Somalis in Minnesota's largest county, they rely on less welfare than white americans.
Rochester, Minn. / Many Somalis getting off welfare
Abdifatah Abdinur spoke no English when his family immigrated here in 1995, but he can still remember how embarrassed he was at needing food stamps. “Somali men and women like to be independe…
Minnesota Somali statewide employment rates is similar to the rest as well
You can also add Australian Somalis to the list who have an employment rate of 62% which a percent chunk of this are in skilled managerial and professional occupations, closely corresponding the general population of 70%.
It has to do with the difference in labor market and the barriers to entry, not because they are lazy and don't want to work and rely on welfare, so they can send it back.
The problem i have with the welfare discourse, which i have discussed before. It's because it's used as poor bashing ethnic migrants and create false abuse and fraud narratives. They don't just do this to European Somalis, they do it to American Somalis and even Canadian Somalis.
The criminality part is also nonsensical. It is not linked to non-western immigration at all, the Maine case is perfect example to show this. Why would Somalis in one area bring crime or gangs but in another area there is none? and its actually lower and more safe? Because crime is a combination of placing them in unsafe low income neighborhoods and exclusion.
Maine has embraced Somalis and their neighborhoods they settled into were safer, so it shows. You can also find this in other places.
Do you know what is also is more perfect case to illustrate the exclusion factor being a reason behind this?
It is this experiment they ran in Denmark where they gave local voting rights and increased civic participation for non-western immigrants and it reduced their crime by a whooping 60%.
Democratic Involvement and Immigrants’ Compliance with the Law
Nowhere did I say that Somalis want welfare, and I agree with you that barriers to entering the workforce or starting a business are high.
I’m simply stating current facts without suggesting that Somalis are lazy or inferior; this pattern is seen across various non-Western migrant groups in Europe, including Algerians, Syrians, Moroccans, and Nigerians. These groups fare better in anglophone countries than in mainland Europe, indicating a distinct difference between integration outcomes in Europe and the English-speaking world. The rule following more collectivist germanic speaking world vs the individualist liberal minded anglo world.
Your points don’t refute or contradict what I’ve outlined. Both perspectives can coexist.
Comparing the U.S., Australia, and Canada to mainland Europe is also difficult due to stricter selection and screening policies, but that’s a separate issue.
The criminality argument is similarly based on socio-economic factors, not on cultural or racial differences, as you rightly noted. Yes, many non-Western migrants engage in criminal behavior, but this correlates with factors like household income and mental health issues, not inherent cultural traits. However, saying “criminality isn’t linked to non-Western immigration” is misleading. If a society of 100 people has five individuals with factors linked to criminal behavior, and 30 more people are introduced, 10 of whom have those factors, then non-Western immigration contributes to the increase of criminality.
