How can we convince our Hawiye kin to give up power

[Magan Joseph]

Do I really need to explain myself? One might think I’m trolling but that’s just not entirely true. I seriously ask this question myself sometimes. I’m tired of hearing people bad mouthing them all over social media Hawiye is this and that blah blah. Hawiye should transfer power over to people who can and want to rule but how can this happen peacefully without any bloodshed? If another clan occupied the capital of Somalia for just fifteen consecutive years Somalia would still be poor but at least it wouldn’t be the definition of bad. What we have today is just outrageous and not acceptable at all you have Indians using Somalia to define what’s bad INDIANS!? out of all the humans on this planet. What’s your take on this? No need to insult each other we’re all adults here we can have normal conversation without insulting one another.

 

[Diini23]

Hawiye is a big clan specify. Also believing a particular clan is holding Somalia back is ludicrous. I mean we can certainly blame politicians but not clans.

 

[Sup]

Do I really need to explain myself? One might think I’m trolling but that’s just not entirely true. I seriously ask this question myself sometimes. I’m tired of hearing people bad mouthing them all over social media Hawiye is this and that blah blah. Hawiye should transfer power over to people who can and want to rule but how can this happen peacefully without any bloodshed? If another clan occupied the capital of Somalia for just fifteen consecutive years Somalia would still be poor but at least it wouldn’t be the definition of bad. What we have today is just outrageous and not acceptable at all you have Indians using Somalia to define what’s bad INDIANS!? out of all the humans on this planet. What’s your take on this? No need to insult each other we’re all adults here we can have normal conversation without insulting one another.

Your not asking the right questions sxb. The reason why Somalia isn’t progressing as a functional nation, is due to many factors. For one Somalia claims to be a federal system/ democracy , when in reality its system in place is flawed or a “flawed democracy” so to speak. Hence why only two clans (the Hawyie and Darood clan) have gained power ever since the founding of the TFG.

Pointing fingers at specific clans for the stagnation of our nation is erroneous, when EVERY single clan in Somalia has a direct connection to our current predicament. 33 years of mistrust and anarchy tends to do that, which is why a reconciliation process must be taken serious by all those involved.

In order for an our nation to move on and become prosperous, there are many steps that need to be taken.

1) A reconciliation conference nationwide must be conducted and taken seriously by all those involved. So that old scars may be healed and trust can once again be established.

2) In order for a proper federal system to work, FMS must follow federal guidelines, e.g. paying taxes, curbing corruption, incorporating states military forces into the national army, allowing border security, immigration enforcement by federal agents etc. you can not claim to be part of the country and yet do your own thing, federalism doesn’t work like that. Not going against nations interest / national security by allowing outside interference to take root etc.

3) The Federal government must act accordingly and take up their responsibilities e.g. curbing corruption within, putting nations taxes to good use by building schools, hospitals, providing universal healthcare (or providing the fund to FMS so they make said goals come to fruition), securing national borders, enforcing foreign immigration, paying government employees on time etc.

4) Supporting those who are right for the job (most qualified), not supporting those just for qabil purposes.


These are only some of the questions you should be asking, and inshaAllah they’ll come to be. Only then will our nation more away from our dark past.

 

[Diini23]

Your not asking the right questions sxb. The reason why Somalia isn’t progressing as a functional nation, is due to many factors. For one Somalia claims to be a federal system/ democracy , when in reality its system in place is flawed or a “flawed democracy” so to speak. Hence why only two clans (the Hawyie and Darood clan) have gained power ever since the founding of the TFG.

Pointing fingers at specific clans for the stagnation of our nation is erroneous, when EVERY single clan in Somalia has a direct connection to our current predicament. 33 years of mistrust and anarchy tends to do that, which is why a reconciliation process must be taken serious by all those involved.

In order for an our nation to move on and become prosperous, there are many steps that need to be taken.

1) A reconciliation conference nationwide must be conducted and taken seriously by all those involved. So that old scars may be healed and trust can once again be established.

2) In order for a proper federal system to work, FMS must follow federal guidelines, e.g. paying taxes, curbing corruption, incorporating states military forces into the national army, allowing border security, immigration enforcement by federal agents etc. you can not claim to be part of the country and yet do your own thing, federalism doesn’t work like that. Not going against nations interest / national security by allowing outside interference to take root etc.

3) The Federal government must act accordingly and take up their responsibilities e.g. curbing corruption within, putting nations taxes to good use by building schools, hospitals, providing universal healthcare (or providing the fund to FMS so they make said goals come to fruition), securing national borders, enforcing foreign immigration, paying government employees on time etc.

4) Supporting those who are right for the job (most qualified), not supporting those just for qabil purposes.


These are only some of the questions you should be asking, and inshaAllah they’ll come to be. Only then will our nation more away from our dark past.

You have very valid points, it’s sickening that individuals in our community blame others within our community for our collective doings, instead of holding all parties accountable. Although I agree with your reconciliation point, I am vehemently against this clan based government system; federalism further exacerbates divisions along clan lines as clans gain a level of autonomy which they then use to undermine the state if they do not like the clan that is head of state. This system is very backwards and should be abolished altogether with the clan structures we have in our society. We should have a meritocracy, that isn’t democratic as our general population are low IQ narrow minded individuals which will elect non qualified individuals due to qabyaalad.

 

[Nomadic lord]

Why would Hawiye give their land and power to appease people crying on the internet? Do you even fathom how stupid that is? and it wouldn't matter in the end because Somalis will only want their clan in power. Hawiye can cure cancer today, and you will still see their kind still hating. Everyone should focus on their own tuulo instead of dreaming about another mans land.

 

[Sup]

You have very valid points, it’s sickening that individuals in our community blame others within our community for our collective doings, instead of holding all parties accountable. Although I agree with your reconciliation point, I am vehemently against this clan based government system; federalism further exacerbates divisions along clan lines as clans gain a level of autonomy which they then use to undermine the state if they do not like the clan that is head of state. This system is very backwards and should be abolished altogether with the clan structures we have in our society. We should have a meritocracy, that isn’t democratic as our general population are low IQ narrow minded individuals which will elect non qualified individuals due to qabyaalad.

I myself am a centralist, as you mentioned federalism will not work in Somalia due to outcome of clan segregation amongst other things . It was simply forced upon us by outsiders to keep us weak and dependent, and hook line and sinker clan federalism was created. I support federalism not because I am an advid supporter, but because that is the system we have in place, and I want it to be done right.

No matter the points, unfortunately people will still hold onto this ideology, no matter how destructive it is. For some it is as dear as their own self’s.

 

[Abdisamad]

Why would Hawiye give their land and power to appease people crying on the internet? Do you even fathom how stupid that is? and it wouldn't matter in the end because Somalis will only want their clan in power. Hawiye can cure cancer today, and you will still see their kind still hating. Everyone should focus on their own tuulo instead of dreaming about another mans land.

But he's not talking about one region of Somalia or a single tuulo, but Somalia as a country.. It seems no matter who comes in office into villa Somalia they'll face opposition and have hard time moving the country out of its current situation.. We can turn the situation when Somalis start thinking my country instead of my qabiil and choose wise leadership to rule and lead the country.. HSM has so far failed miserably in the office, I fear for Somalia and it's existence if things continue in this path.

 

[LiveFrom]

Wasnt the last president darood? I assumed Farmaajo was since hes nephew of Barre.

 

[Jungle]

Why would Hawiye give their land and power to appease people crying on the internet? Do you even fathom how stupid that is? and it wouldn't matter in the end because Somalis will only want their clan in power. Hawiye can cure cancer today, and you will still see their kind still hating. Everyone should focus on their own tuulo instead of dreaming about another mans land.

If farmaajo training 8k troops to takeover the capital isn't the biggest wake up call, I don't know what is. The next darood will do something similar to consolidate power and just halt Somalias progress. The international community has realised this as well. HSM is here to stay tbh they can cry about all they want

 

[Hassan Garguute Buldanana]

The colonial project is finished. I don't know why it's so hard to understand that. Everybody needs to stick to his lands and officially split.

 

[Celery]

Anytime I criticize the clan system, people say “it’s so that we can identify one another”. Complete assholes

 

[JamalFarah]

You're talking like we're ruled by just one group, like in a dictatorship. But actually, we elect our president through g 4.5 representing different clans. So, why do other clans seem more okay with a Hawiye president than a Darood one? Well, it's not that clear-cut. Since 1991, we've had three Hawiye and two Darood presidents. So the central point of your post is shaky.

To explain why there are more Hawiye presidents, it's mostly just bad luck. Farmaajo really messed up any chance of a Darood president in the future with his dictatorial behaviour. Even though he started with lots of support, his presidency was ruined. AY did some important things for modern Somalia but will always be remembered for bringing Ethiopian troops into our country.

The main problem is that power is stuck between Hawiye and Darood. Blaming only the Hawiye (or Darood when they're in charge) isn't fair when both sides have monopolized power in the highest rung of government.

The real issue is that neither of these clans lets other groups like Biimaal or Raxanweyn become president, and that's a big problem.

To give more context, the Hawiye have more to lose. A bad president, like Farmaajo, hurts not his own kin but Hawiye (and Raxanweyn and .5s) the most. That's probably why Hawiye usually support one candidate for president and are more capable of getting other clans to join them, while Darood are politically internally incredible divided.

Right now, only Banadiir contributes taxes to the federal government. Even though I might not fully agree, I get why people there think they deserve representation because they pay taxes and suffer a lot from Shabaab attacks.

The Raxanweyn are in a tough spot too. They contribute a lot of taxes, suffer a ton from Al Shabaab, and many of them risk their lives by joining the Somali National Army.

Ideally tribe shouldnt matter and the most merotractic candidate should get the job, but until our society has reached that level tribal interest will always play a role.

1m1v will adress a lot of these problems, but straightening out the relationship between FMS and the FGS and having tax revenue move between these two to cement the relationship is needed to give the FGS the legitimacy that its build with the help of all Somalis.

Many people think that if their own (sub) clan had a chance to lead, all of Somalia's problems would magically disappear. However, the challenges facing Somalia are incredibly complex and can't be blamed on any single clan.

 

[FBIsomalia]

 

[Nin123]

Do I really need to explain myself? One might think I’m trolling but that’s just not entirely true. I seriously ask this question myself sometimes. I’m tired of hearing people bad mouthing them all over social media Hawiye is this and that blah blah. Hawiye should transfer power over to people who can and want to rule but how can this happen peacefully without any bloodshed? If another clan occupied the capital of Somalia for just fifteen consecutive years Somalia would still be poor but at least it wouldn’t be the definition of bad. What we have today is just outrageous and not acceptable at all you have Indians using Somalia to define what’s bad INDIANS!? out of all the humans on this planet. What’s your take on this? No need to insult each other we’re all adults here we can have normal conversation without insulting one another.

What power you are talking about? They only rule Mogadishu with help of amisom, and don’t have any power in puntland, ssc, Somaliland, jubaland, hiiranland and south west state. They don’t have any power to begin with mate they can’t even free their lands with all the government money and soldiers.

 

[LiveFrom]

You're talking like we're ruled by just one group, like in a dictatorship. But actually, we elect our president through g 4.5 representing different clans. So, why do other clans seem more okay with a Hawiye president than a Darood one? Well, it's not that clear-cut. Since 1991, we've had three Hawiye and two Darood presidents. So the central point of your post is shaky.

To explain why there are more Hawiye presidents, it's mostly just bad luck. Farmaajo really messed up any chance of a Darood president in the future with his dictatorial behaviour. Even though he started with lots of support, his presidency was ruined. AY did some important things for modern Somalia but will always be remembered for bringing Ethiopian troops into our country.

The main problem is that power is stuck between Hawiye and Darood. Blaming only the Hawiye (or Darood when they're in charge) isn't fair when both sides have monopolized power in the highest rung of government.

The real issue is that neither of these clans lets other groups like Biimaal or Raxanweyn become president, and that's a big problem.

To give more context, the Hawiye have more to lose. A bad president, like Farmaajo, hurts not his own kin but Hawiye (and Raxanweyn and .5s) the most. That's probably why Hawiye usually support one candidate for president and are more capable of getting other clans to join them, while Darood are politically internally incredible divided.

Right now, only Banadiir contributes taxes to the federal government. Even though I might not fully agree, I get why people there think they deserve representation because they pay taxes and suffer a lot from Shabaab attacks.

The Raxanweyn are in a tough spot too. They contribute a lot of taxes, suffer a ton from Al Shabaab, and many of them risk their lives by joining the Somali National Army.

Ideally tribe shouldnt matter and the most merotractic candidate should get the job, but until our society has reached that level tribal interest will always play a role.

1m1v will adress a lot of these problems, but straightening out the relationship between FMS and the FGS and having tax revenue move between these two to cement the relationship is needed to give the FGS the legitimacy that its build with the help of all Somalis.

Many people think that if their own (sub) clan had a chance to lead, all of Somalia's problems would magically disappear. However, the challenges facing Somalia are incredibly complex and can't be blamed on any single clan.

Incredible take mashallah

Can you expand on why you believe 1m1v will work to alleviate the issue of Darood / Hawiye passing power back and forth? From what I understand they also have the highest pops, and theyve been doing this game since the country started

 

[CABDULWALI XASAN.]

Federalism is holding somalia back, we need centralism

 

[NidarNidar]

Federalism is holding somalia back, we need centralism

Centralism with the current leaders

 

[Magan Joseph]

What power you are talking about? They only rule Mogadishu with help of amisom, and don’t have any power in puntland, ssc, Somaliland, jubaland, hiiranland and south west state. They don’t have any power to begin with mate they can’t even free their lands with all the government money and soldiers.

Agreeing to move the capital is giving up power. And idk why people are sugarcoating it it’s clear that Hawiye want power they want to rule everybody wants to rule where’s the shame in admitting to want to rule, there’s no ceeb in it but Hawiye aren’t good at it they aren’t good at ruling the foreign advisor is the presidents daughter.

 

[aarkamudug]

Federalism is holding somalia back, we need centralism

Centralism is what caused the whole civil war lol,we need confederalism

 

[Magan Joseph]

If farmaajo training 8k troops to takeover the capital isn't the biggest wake up call, I don't know what is. The next darood will do something similar to consolidate power and just halt Somalias progress. The international community has realised this as well. HSM is here to stay tbh they can cry about all they want

Farmaajo hails from a small darood subclan he does not represent darood.