Is The Adal Sultan Abu Bakr Ibn Muhammad A Somali Or A Harari

[Laser]

Bruh what? I literally explained you that agabari is shepherd and the act of the shepherd is agobara. It’s possible that agobar and agobara are tied, because a shepherd needs a plain to graze.

I literally explained to you basic Harari grammar and you are calling me a liar. Let me list you other ways to you the suffix -e:
1. qurre - “my vicinity”
2. Zere - “my uncle”
3. Miye - “my water”
4. Iraze - “my clothes”
5. Garre- “my home”

Don’t be saying cope when I gave you a Harari grammar lesson.

Proof that dirre isn't an oromo loanword. Giving examples of suffix -e meaning "My" doesn't proof much because it isn't always the case at least according to lelsu like these words:
Gale - beloved (oromo loanword)
Halle - dance (oromo loanword)
Dirre - plain (oromo loanword)
Several loanwords ending with e not necessarily meaning "my".

And your first example of how dirre is used:

When you say “dirre be hal,” you are saying “it is in my plain.”

That's not true according to the dictionary:

Hal (no suffix denoting a person here)
How dirre is used

Dirre be (not denoting a person here)
So there's no "my"

This is what i mean by it contradicts you.

 

[oogabooga]

Gale - beloved (oromo loanword)

Gele means “my friend.” Keep in mind Leslau’s source for Oromo was written in 1953, and he even acknowledged in the introduction that determining Cushitic etymology is very difficult due to the lack of a structure to analyze it. I searched every Oromo-English dictionary I could get my hands on and there is no word for “gele” in Afaan Oromo.

That's not true according to the dictionary:

Hal-a (suffix a denoting a person here)
How dirre is used

Dirre be (not denoting a person here)

bro thought he got me. The way you are saying it, then the sentence “it is in my house” should be “gar be hal.” That is wrong, it removes the possessive first person. It has to be “garre be hal.” “Gar be hal” is a sentence but it means “it is in the house.”

Hence it makes no grammatical sense for it to be “Dir be hal,” it has to be “Dirre be hal.”

 

[Laser]

Keep in mind Leslau’s source for Oromo was written in 1953, and he even acknowledged in the introduction that determining Cushitic etymology is very difficult due to the lack of a structure to analyze it.

Well he makes it clear in his dictionary that When he says "from cushitic" he's certain that it's a loanword while when he says "also in cushitic" he doesn't know who borrowed the word.

Here he says "from" basically confirming it's a loanword:

I searched every Oromo-English dictionary I could get my hands on and there is no word for “gele” in Afaan Oromo

Well it's pronounced as jaale in afaan oromo
See ğāle? (Ğ=j ā=aa le) notice why the letter j isn't used in his dictionary?

bro thought he got me. The way you are saying it, then the sentence “it is in my house” should be “gar be hal.” That is wrong, it removes the possessive first person. It has to be “garre be hal.” “Gar be hal” is a sentence but it means “it is in the house.”

Hence it makes no grammatical sense for it to be “Dir be hal,” it has to be “Dirre be hal.”

What way? I'm implying that "dirre be hal" shouldn't mean "it's in my plain" evident from this dictionary.

Also lelsu himself uses the suffix "e" to indicate "my" for the word Gar while he doesn't for dirre, and i showed you several examples of words ending with "e" not necessarily meaning "my".

 

[daljirkadahsoon]

I hope you don't use the fake Fath Madinat Harar at any point

 

[oogabooga]

Well he makes it clear in his dictionary that When he says "from cushitic" he's certain that it's a loanword while when he says "also in cushitic" he doesn't know who borrowed the word.

Ok you are right but I personally think a modern study should be done. You have to keep in mind this dictionary, although expansive, is not complete.

Well it's pronounced as jaale in afaan oromo
See ğāle? (Ğ=j ā=aa le) notice why the letter j isn't used in his dictionary?

ohhhh, I never heard a Harari use that word. We use the word Gēl. So I thought you meant that one and Gēle means “my friend.”

What way? I'm implying that "dirre be hal" shouldn't mean "it's in my plain" evident from this dictionary.

But that’s not the way we say it. We literally use “Dirre be” quite a lot. It’s conjugated the following:
1. Dirre - my plain
2. Dirrekha - your plain
3. Dirrezo- his plain
4. Dirrezina - our plain
5. Dirreziyu - their plain

Similar to the word “Qurra” meaning “close, within the vicinity.”

 

[Laser]

Ok you are right but I personally think a modern study should be done. You have to keep in mind this dictionary, although expansive, is not complete.

It's sufficient here.

ohhhh, I never heard a Harari use that word. We use the word Gēl. So I thought you meant that one and Gēle means “my friend.”

I used it as an example, a word that exists in harari with -e not necessarily denoting ownership (my).

But that’s not the way we say it. We literally use “Dirre be” quite a lot.

lelsu dictionary literally translated the phrase "dirre be" to "in the open/on display" and it doesn't denote a person anywhere. I'm not denying that in harari pronouns, nouns ending with -e denotes "my/mine" I'm simply saying it doesn't apply to all words including this one.

And my main argument is that dirre is an oromo loanword in harari meaning it's a post-futuh borrowed word so the dir mentioned in the futuh can't be from harari language.

 

[awsaleban667]

4. Farasaham Sultan bin Ali from the tribe of Yamli (Yamli means “fulfill”)
5. Abu Bakr Qecchin (Qecchin means thin as explained by Futuh and in the Harari language)
The rest have Arabic names so I ignored.

Farshaham (Farshaxan) is a Somali word

 

[Khaem]

If he is harari then how the hell is Adal a somali sultanate? I know that most of his soilders were made up of somalis but I dont know if that alone can be enough proof that he is somali. Is there a source that says that he is somali?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Bakr_ibn_Muhammad
View attachment 324238

The ethno-genesis of the Harari is very recent and only came about when Nur ibn Mujahid, a karanle or marexan, built the walls of harar in response to Galla incursions. The many peoples in the city then mixed to form the modern Harari.

Richard Pankhurst was a propagandist paid by Halie salassie and is the man responsible for the Ethiopianization of Islamic Somali history such as Adal.

 

[Zak12]

Somewhat related but it seems this guy replied back to this old convo
@Yami thoughts?

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