Islam and Slavery

[Angelina]

Because they meet the standards of saheeh, the people in the isnad are considered trustworthy, reliable and with good memory. Still, given the time gap and distance from Makkah nobody can be accused of being a munafiq or kaafir for not considering it authoritative. Later scholars (i.e after 230 years) agreeing isn’t like scientists agreeing because they’re even further removed from the Prophet (saw), are less likely to determine what he said and whether the people in the isnad are reliable and trustworthy.

I agree with your point.

 

[Keep it a boqol]

quranist detected opinion rejected

 

[Omar del Sur]

what you call a hadith that was completely discredited? A false hadith. They literally called out hadhiths in Sahih and wrote books about them.

you have a known anti hadith agenda that has been out there for a while. you just casually dismiss hadith and take a very casual apparoach to hadith. you are borderline a Quranist.

We get that not every single hadith in Sahih al-Bukhari is necessarily authentic but the vast overwhelming majority are and people have no business going in front of the people and disparaging Sahih al-Bukhari. we would be fools to cast out the historical body of Islamic scholarship in favor of an anonymous person on SomaliSpot who denies the coming of Imam Mahdi.

 

[Angelina]

you have a known anti hadith agenda that has been out there for a while. you just casually dismiss hadith and take a very casual apparoach to hadith. you are borderline a Quranist.

We get that not every single hadith in Sahih al-Bukhari is necessarily authentic but the vast overwhelming majority are and people have no business going in front of the people and disparaging Sahih al-Bukhari. we would be fools to cast out the historical body of Islamic scholarship in favor of an anonymous person on SomaliSpot who denies the coming of Imam Mahdi.

@Aurelian

Why do you deny Imam Mahdi and what scholars of the past also have this opinion?

 

[World]

In regards to slavery, a lot of people today say that all forms of slavery were banned except prisoners of war in a justified war. But that’s not what jurists said.

Darul Islam = where Muslim rule and have sovereignty. Historically, if a non Muslim didn’t live in, or have a peace treaty with Darul Islam, it was permitted to enslave them. There was no requirement for them being prisoners of war, or fought in a justified war.

Personally i see a huge contradiction between the life of the prophet (saw) and the arab slave trade in East Africa, where they would send raiding parties to enslave entire villages who have never heard of Islam.

 

[ina-cilmi]

NGL being a slave for another man is sus to me. Like he's basically one step from blowing your back out lol.

or modern society has rotted your brain so much you think of everything as sexual

 

[Angelina]

In regards to slavery, a lot of people today say that all forms of slavery were banned except prisoners of war in a justified war. But that’s not what jurists said.

Darul Islam = where Muslim rule and have sovereignty. Historically, if a non Muslim didn’t live in, or have a peace treaty with Darul Islam, it was permitted to enslave them. There was no requirement for them being prisoners of war, or fought in a justified war.

Is that a mainstream view of jurists? So you’re telling me a Gaal man can travel to Muslim lands and him and his wife can be enslaved for no reason?

Personally i see a huge contradiction between the life of the prophet (saw) and the arab slave trade in East Africa, where they would send raiding parties to enslave entire villages who have never heard of Islam.

They clearly did so for economic reasons. Religion had nothing to do with it and they were able to use loopholes to justify their actions. They even used to raid Eastern European countries for concubines. For the life of me, I’d never see that as being something that aligns with the spirit of Islam.

 

[World]

Is that a mainstream view of jurists? So you’re telling me a Gaal man can travel to Muslim lands and him and his wife can be enslaved for no reason?

Yes it’s a mainstream view. No, because he believed it was safe to travel to muslim lands and he wouldn’t be harmed which is why he brought his wife so according to jurists this means he has a type of peace treaty although he isn’t living under muslim lands. But if a people outside of muslim lands don’t have a peace treaty there’s nothing wrong with 1000 men invading their towns at night and enslaving all of them according to jurists.

They clearly did so for economic reasons. Religion had nothing to do with it and they were able to use loopholes to justify their actions. They even used to raid Eastern European countries for concubines. For the life of me, I’d never see that as being something that aligns with the spirit of Islam.

I agree, i don’t know how it can justified.

 

[marcellady]

How come it talks about your right hand possession being allowed to be with them? How come the Prophet s.a.w had one? How do you navigate that?

What was her name?

I know that some Muslims believe that Islam implemented a more gradual approach to abolishing slavery due to how deeply entrenched it was in society. The Prophet (PBUH) saw freeing slaves as praiseworthy

 

[Angelina]

Yes it’s a mainstream view. No, because he believed it was safe to travel to muslim lands and he wouldn’t be harmed which is why he brought his wife so according to jurists this means he has a type of peace treaty although he isn’t living under muslim lands. But if a people outside of muslim lands don’t have a peace treaty there’s nothing wrong with 1000 men invading their towns at night and enslaving all of them according to jurists.


I agree, i don’t know how it can justified.

So you’re telling me jurists believe they can raid random non Muslim towns and kidnap the women and turn them into slaves? Would this be the majority of jurists who believe this or only some? I can’t help but feel that this might have been jurists feeling pressure to allow this via Fatwa due to the economic benefits of the men around them. I can’t see how this is any way moral Authobillah. When you think about, with that premise, you can justify all sorts of things that many of would find deeply disturbing.

 

[ina-cilmi]

 

[World]

So you’re telling me jurists believe they can raid random non Muslim towns and kidnap the women and turn them into slaves? Would this be the majority of jurists who believe this or only some? I can’t help but feel that this might have been jurists feeling pressure to allow this via Fatwa due to the economic benefits of the men around them. I can’t see how this is any way moral Authobillah.

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[attash]

In regards to slavery, a lot of people today say that all forms of slavery were banned except prisoners of war in a justified war. But that’s not what jurists said.

Darul Islam = where Muslim rule and have sovereignty. Historically, if a non Muslim didn’t live in, or have a peace treaty with Darul Islam, it was permitted to enslave them. There was no requirement for them being prisoners of war, or fought in a justified war.

Personally i see a huge contradiction between the life of the prophet (saw) and the arab slave trade in East Africa, where they would send raiding parties to enslave entire villages who have never heard of Islam.

There is a difference of opinion of what constitutes dar al xarb. There are some who said that dar al xarb is any land where the Shari'a is not implemented. However, others said that dar al xarb are lands where Muslims are not allowed to practice or spread Islam freely. So if a kafir country allows Muslims to live freely, it is not dar al xarb. This is the opinion of Imam Abu Hanifah, who listed three conditions for a territory to be considered xarbi:

1. Implementation of the laws of the non-Muslims openly and that no rule of Islam is implemented any longer
2. Bordering another Dār al-Ḥarb
3. No Muslim remains safe as he was before the non-Muslims took power

Ribā in Darul Harb - IslamQA

I am a business man, I wanted to ask that is it permissible for us to take loan from government banks, financiers, for the purpose of doing business, or constructing a house, and we have to pay

islamqa.org

The reasoning behind these conditions is because the whole purpose for violent jihad is to defend and spread Islam. So if a territory already allows Muslims to live freely and spread their religion, then invading that country is unnecessary and we can do dacwah there instead.

If a country is dar al xarb, it is permitted to raid that country as long as the intention is to establish Islamic rule there (and not simply to gather loot). Looting is allowed, however the loot needs to have a fifth taken from it and sent the ruler so he can distribute it amongst the groups listed by the Quran. Any loot that does not have a fifth taken from it is haram loot that is forbidden to consume. The raids also need to be organized and be lead by a general appointed by the ruler or his deputy (the citizens cannot just gather themselves anytime they want and invade).

 

[Angelina]

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[_Yusuf_]

or modern society has rotted your brain so much you think of everything as sexual

Was I wrong? What stopping a guy from going hog wild on your futo if you were a slave? Some people smash animals in the modern age. Let's say some Pashtuni man purchased you? It's a rap for your ass. That got nothing to do with "Modern Society" pal

Bacha bazi - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Just saying

 

[World]

There is a difference of opinion of what constitutes dar al xarb. There are some who said that dar al xarb is any land where the Shari'a is not implemented. However, others said that dar al xarb are lands where Muslims are not allowed to practice or spread Islam freely. So if a kafir country allows Muslims to live freely, it is not dar al xarb. This is the opinion of Imam Abu Hanifah, who listed three conditions for a territory to be considered xarbi:

1. Implementation of the laws of the non-Muslims openly and that no rule of Islam is implemented any longer
2. Bordering another Dār al-Ḥarb
3. No Muslim remains safe as he was before the non-Muslims took power

Ribā in Darul Harb - IslamQA

I am a business man, I wanted to ask that is it permissible for us to take loan from government banks, financiers, for the purpose of doing business, or constructing a house, and we have to pay

islamqa.org

The reasoning behind these conditions is because the whole purpose for violent jihad is to defend and spread Islam. So if a territory already allows Muslims to live freely and spread their religion, then invading that country is unnecessary and we can do dacwah there instead.

It’s not the relied upon opinion in the Hanafi madhab however, and the two students of Abu Hanifa (Abu Yusuf and Muhammad) disagreed with him. Also, I believe the context is quite different as he was discussing non muslim ruled territory that is surrounded by muslims.

There is no disagreement among the scholars of the Hanafi Madhab that Dar al-Kufr becomes Dar al-Islam, when the rules of Islam becomes dominant. They only dispute on how Dar al-Islam transfers to become dar al-kufr. Abu Hanifah said, 'dar al-Islam becomes dar al-kufr in three (situations); when the law and order becomes kufr, when the state has a border with a Kufr (state) and there is no longer any security for the Muslim or the dhimmi (citizens). Abu Yusuf and Muhammad, however, argued dar al-Islam transfers to become dar al-kufr only when the law and order becomes kufr. (Bada' us-Sanaai', Vol. 7, p. 130)

If a country is dar al xarb, it is permitted to raid that country as long as the intention is to establish Islamic rule there (and not simply to gather loot). Looting is allowed, however the loot needs to have a fifth taken from it and sent the ruler so he can distribute it amongst the groups listed by the Quran. Any loot that does not have a fifth taken from it is haram loot that is forbidden to consume. The raids also need to be organized and be lead by a general appointed by the ruler or his deputy (the citizens cannot just gather themselves anytime they want and invade).

Hanafi fiqh book Al-Jawharah an-Nayyirah Sharh li Mukhtasar al-Quduri (362-428 AH):

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[ina-cilmi]

Was I wrong? What stopping a guy from going hog wild on your futo if you were a slave? Some people smash animals in the modern age. Let's say some Pashtuni man purchased you? It's a rap for your ass. That got nothing to do with "Modern Society" pal

Bacha bazi - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Just saying

what does that have to do with islamic slavery, or the hadith which kicked this thread off? that bacha bazi trash is absolutely disgusting and no self respecting muslim should participate in that trash. if you were a slave you would be allowed not to obey your master in this regard as there's no obedience to any created being in which there is disobedience to Allah

again, to make the link from that hadith and islamic slavery to that degeneracy is wild

 

[Basra]

x.com

x.com

(btw I am sorry to those reading that you cannot see the preview for the tweets now... I am not sure why it is like that now)

Powerful Hadith is it Sahih?

 

[ina-cilmi]

Powerful Hadith is it Sahih?

kkkkkkkkkkkkk

 

[attash]

It’s not the relied upon opinion in the Hanafi madhab however, and the two students of Abu Hanifa (Abu Yusuf and Muhammad) disagreed with him. Also, I believe the context is quite different as he was discussing non muslim ruled territory that is surrounded by muslims.

Hence why I said the definition of what constitutes daar al xarb is disputed. As for Abu Hanifah's opinion, it is clear he is talking about general conditions for daar al xarb which is admitted by your source:

They only dispute on how Dar al-Islam transfers to become dar al-kufr. Abu Hanifah said, 'dar al-Islam becomes dar al-kufr in three (situations)... (Bada' us-Sanaai', Vol. 7, p. 130)

Hanafi fiqh book Al-Jawharah an-Nayyirah Sharh li Mukhtasar al-Quduri (362-428 AH):

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