Islam and Slavery

[Basra]

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kkkkkkkkkkkkk

 

[ina-cilmi]

happens to the best of us

 

[Basra]

happens to the best of us

Ina Cilmi can do you have great lips?

 

[_Yusuf_]

what does that have to do with islamic slavery, or the hadith which kicked this thread off? that bacha bazi trash is absolutely disgusting and no self respecting muslim should participate in that trash. if you were a slave you would be allowed not to obey your master in this regard as there's no obedience to any created being in which there is disobedience to Allah

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again, to make the link from that hadith and islamic slavery to that degeneracy is wild

The crux of the argument is that slave are vulnerable. If I really wanted I could find instances of abuse historically. Although it's not adhering to Islamic slavery. Humans are fallible, meaning they can violate these rules thus where abuse occurs.

 

[Basra]

The crux of the argument is that slave are vulnerable. If I really wanted I could find instances of abuse historically. Although it's not adhering to Islamic slavery. Humans are fallible, meaning they can violate these rules thus were abuse occurs.

Also a slave is under the control of another, therefore their sins is controlled as they are not free to do whatever they want. If they are religious as prophet pbuh said- mashaaalah a win

 

[Midas]

For the love of God this thread is becoming ridiculous. The idea that you can enslave random people is not true. Just think about it for a second hiw crazy that sounds. For some reason us somalis are prone to spout random fiqh opinions removed from their context or just outright wrong. If anybody wants to actually learn properly watch the safina society youtube channel and then if you want sign up for their courses.

 

[World]

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[World]

Hence why I said the definition of what constitutes daar al xarb is disputed. As for Abu Hanifah's opinion, it is clear he is talking about general conditions for daar al xarb which is admitted by your source:

I understand. If that constitutes a difference of opinion, then fair enough. I am simply relaying the relied upon opinion of the 4 madhab when i am talking about jurists.

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[Angelina]

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[Periplus]

What is your view of slavery and how do you navigate the fact that it’s been allowed in the Quran?

I think Islam’s opinion on slavery was acknowledging its existence and providing a way to gradually eliminate it.

 

[Angelina]

I think Islam’s opinion on slavery was acknowledging its existence and providing a way to gradually eliminate it.

I too believe that, but unfortunately ultra traditionalists would disagree simply because a practise done by Sahabis and the Prophet s.a.w can never be seen as 'wrong' or something that needs to be overturned in time. Many would even make tafkir on you for thinking it's morally grey or something you think should be fully banned forever.

 

[Aurelian]

you have a known anti hadith agenda that has been out there for a while. you just casually dismiss hadith and take a very casual apparoach to hadith. you are borderline a Quranist.

We get that not every single hadith in Sahih al-Bukhari is necessarily authentic but the vast overwhelming majority are and people have no business going in front of the people and disparaging Sahih al-Bukhari. we would be fools to cast out the historical body of Islamic scholarship in favor of an anonymous person on SomaliSpot who denies the coming of Imam Mahdi.

The second most authentic book after Quran has some non-authentic parts? How is that the second most authentic book?

 

[Aurelian]

@Aurelian

Why do you deny Imam Mahdi and what scholars of the past also have this opinion?

Mahdi started with the shia. There is no hadith mentioning the Mahdi in Sahih Muslim and Bukhari or the Quran.

 

[Aurelian]

I too believe that, but unfortunately ultra traditionalists would disagree simply because a practise done by Sahabis and the Prophet s.a.w can never be seen as 'wrong' or something that needs to be overturned in time. Many would even make tafkir on you for thinking it's morally grey or something you think should be fully banned forever.

You know that there are some hadiths that puts the Salat, Zakat of the wife and her obedience to her husband on the same bar? There is a hadith that the wife who disobese her husband will not enter the Jannah, even if she prays, give zaka, and fast Ramadan, etc. But a single woman who does all of that can enter Jannah. You see how some hadiths makes no sense from Theological point of view ( Enter Heaven if you believe in god, but if you have a husband he has some influence if you can enter Heaven or not).

 

[Angelina]

Mahdi started with the shia. There is no hadith mentioning the Mahdi in Sahih Muslim and Bukhari or the Quran.

It's in Sunan Abu Dawud, 11/373; Sunan Ibn Maajah. 2/1368.

We have 6 books that are thought of as being authentic.

 

[World]

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[Angelina]

You know that there are some hadiths that puts the Salat, Zakat of the wife and her obedience to her husband on the same bar? There is a hadith that the wife who disobese her husband will not enter the Jannah, even if she prays, give zaka, and fast Ramadan, etc. But a single woman who does all of that can enter Jannah. You see how some hadiths makes no sense from Theological point of view ( Enter Heaven if you believe in god, but if you have a husband he has some influence if you can enter Heaven or not).

I know. This has been an internal struggle for me. I've not seen any hadiths that liken the parents obedience to being the same as being the same as prayer despite the fact that the Quraan has more emphasis on parental obedience than spousal.

Another struggle I have is what is the benchmark? What happens if the husband feels he isn't being obeyed, but he is being unreasonable? A husband that tells his wife to make ten dishes a day? One who says she has to run around the house? Or even better one who says she can't see her dying mother? What is the limit here? How can one be subjected to the subjective view of what is and isn't acceptable? Are we denied Jannah because we refuse to stand on one leg for half and hour if her husband insists we do this everyday?

 

[Aurelian]

It's in Sunan Abu Dawud, 11/373; Sunan Ibn Maajah. 2/1368.

We have 6 books that are thought of as being authentic.

Can you give the link or the text straight?

 

[Aurelian]

I know. This has been an internal struggle for me. I've not seen any hadiths that liken the parents obedience to being the same as being the same as prayer despite the fact that the Quraan has more emphasis on parental obedience than spousal.

Another struggle I have is what is the benchmark? What happens if the husband feels he isn't being obeyed, but he is being unreasonable? A husband that tells his wife to make ten dishes a day? One who says she has to run around the house? Or even better one who says she can't see her dying mother? What is the limit here? How can one be subjected to the subjective view of what is and isn't acceptable? Are we denied Jannah because we refuse to stand on one leg for half and hour if her husband insists we do this everyday?

Not the Parents, but the Husband, even if your mom say something but the husband says otherwise, accroding to these hadiths, you required to obey the husband or else no Jannah.

 

[Aurelian]

One of the Sahih Muslim's weak hadiths is the political one like this one promoting and supporting Ali's case in the first Fitna

Narrated Abu Sa'eed Al-Khudri:
"We, the people of the Ansar, used to recognize the hypocrites, by their hatred for 'Ali bin Abi Talib."