Islam and Slavery

[Do]

@Angelina

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[Idilinaa]

I actually briefly touched on this: Not so much on the Islamic ruling on the matter but on how the slave system operated in the Muslim world throughout history.

Compared to the West. Slavery in Muslim world was a small trickle trade drawn from all types of races/groups highly individualized only rich elites could afford a few and rarely used as a means of crop production; slaves were not the economic engine behind Muslim economies until the 19th century boom which was a due to a capitalist market demand introduced and created by the Portuguese. They had far greater treatment, rights and higher social mobility than in European systems.

As such from ''Slave to Sultan'', was pretty common occurrence throughout the Muslim world.

Even in the Muslim history of Horn of Africa you see this happen, Habash slave of Nur Ibn Mujahid became the Emir of Harar after his passing. This was pretty much unheard of in both Ethiopian and European slave systems.

There is nothing nice about being a slave of either Arabs, Europeans or even Africans(Like Somalis or Habeshas). Slavery, mild or otherwise, is a crime against a human being. But it would be historically and morally inaccurate not to cite that there is a serious difference between vassalship and Chattelship.

 

[Angelina]

Not the Parents, but the Husband, even if your mom say something but the husband says otherwise, accroding to these hadiths, you required to obey the husband or else no Jannah.

@World @Periplus @DojaKhat

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[Do]

I actually briefly touched on this: Not so much on the Islamic ruling on the matter but on how the slave system operated in the Muslim world throughout history.

I wish I was smart like you

You're one of my favourite posters.

 

[Angelina]

@Angelina

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Doja, I'm still working through my own struggles and I'm not in a place to advise. But just understand, man is fallible, humans makes mistakes and our connection to God shouldn't be hanging on ideas and opinions of jurists we might find barbaric.

 

[Omar del Sur]

You know that there are some hadiths that puts the Salat, Zakat of the wife and her obedience to her husband on the same bar? There is a hadith that the wife who disobese her husband will not enter the Jannah, even if she prays, give zaka, and fast Ramadan, etc. But a single woman who does all of that can enter Jannah. You see how some hadiths makes no sense from Theological point of view ( Enter Heaven if you believe in god, but if you have a husband he has some influence if you can enter Heaven or not).

this is exactly how not to approach hadith. "oh I don't agree with this hadith so I don't accept this hadith". it isn't up to us.

the question is whether the isnad is authentic. we should be looking at that and that should be the starting point- not us deciding whether the hadith suits our ideas and then accepting or rejecting the hadith based on that.

 

[Angelina]

this is exactly how not to approach hadith. "oh I don't agree with this hadith so I don't accept this hadith". it isn't up to us.

the question is whether the isnad is authentic. we should be looking at that and that should be the starting point- not us deciding whether the hadith suits our ideas and then accepting or rejecting the hadith based on that.

That’s the issue, what’s the bench mark? I don’t like the sound of it?

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Anyways, I don't have issues with advise. Maybe I might be completely wrong with the way I'm going about things.

 

[Omar del Sur]

That’s the issue, what’s the bench mark? I don’t like the sound of it?

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Anyways, I don't have issues with advise. Maybe I might be completely wrong with the way I'm going about things.

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[ina-cilmi]

The crux of the argument is that slave are vulnerable. If I really wanted I could find instances of abuse historically. Although it's not adhering to Islamic slavery. Humans are fallible, meaning they can violate these rules thus where abuse occurs.

the matter could then be referred to the judge.

 

[Midas]

@Angelina and @Omar del Sur I know you guys have good intentions but please stop randomly quoting hadith from islamq&a those guys don't even follow a clear madhab. Even the madhab don't have the same exact methodology for hadith. For instance the maliks and hanafis don't take single hadiths as evidence by itself. Even the other madhabs don't always use every hadith even if they accepted it as sahih especially when it comes to legal rulings. The danger with quoting random classical jurist opinions is that you can find support for any type of position.

 

[Angelina]

@Angelina and @Omar del Sur I know you guys have good intentions but please stop randomly quoting hadith from islamq&a those guys don't even follow a clear madhab. Even the madhab don't have the same exact methodology for hadith. For instance the maliks and hanafis don't take single hadiths as evidence by itself. Even the other madhabs don't always use every hadith even if they accepted it as sahih especially when it comes to legal rulings. The danger with quoting random classical jurist opinions is that you can find support for any type of position.

The great thing about Islamqa is that whilst they don’t stick to a Madhab and they’ll tell you in detail the views of different madhabs via quoting what Shafi Jurists say or for example what Hanafi scholars say. They’ll go into detail the views of what each madhab believes in and then later on they’ll give you their own view point which might differ.

Also, I don’t quote random jurist opinion. I check if there is a consensus in a madhab for example and if it’s a fringe opinion, I make it clear.

 

[Angelina]

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[Midas]

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For me salafism was never intellectually satisfying and i didn't think about the deen too muchh. But when i started learning more about the deen very quickly I realized how methodologicallly ungrounded salafism is. Nobody in the traditonal islamic institutions or curriculums actually study salafi scholars. I really think you would appreciate shaykh shadee elmasry (an American born sheikh based out of new jersey) he has a youtube channel and his own online program. He is even connected with habib umar and the ba'alwais of yemen. He doesn't mince words but is straightforward and explains in detail. ( I recommend everybody check him out)

What Was the Madhab of the Salaf?

https://www.arkview.org/

youtube.com