Isn't Djibouti apart of somalia?

[Geeljire]

You keep parroting this phrase "colonial imposition" but I'm not sure if you know what it means. The entire continent of Africa is a "colonial imposition." Your beloved "Somalia" is a "colonial imposition." How you use that as a primary argument is not only baffling but quite absurd.Djibouti thrives by being a sovereign nation located in a very strategic location which fuels their trade and encourages diplomatic ties to various nations.

Is this your trade mark dismiss what you find inconvenient and never actually providing valid argument or refutations?

'' oh oh you mention ''colonial impositon'' meehh''. You make it sound like they have no aspirations to join other Somalis which is not actually true in regards to the contemporary, historical, geographical and economic reality of things.

Also they are not sovereign. It is a flipping colonial military base. It is not thriving cuz it is impoverished backwater with no resources.

First you tried to get away by comparing Djibouti to Ughyurs,balkans and the kurds, Then when i showed you have incomparable it was by pasting an overview, which you can google in 2 sec you then tried to deviate.
Your ''Go to'' argument is ''Soveriegn'' saaxiib yet that falls flat on its bum. Sovereign nation that thrives?

What have you been smoking?

 

[waraabe]

No djiboutian wants to join a. Why would they join cancerous people

 

[HalyeeyQaran]

Is this your trade mark dismiss what you find inconvenient and never actually providing valid argument or refutations?

'' oh oh you mention ''colonial impositon'' meehh''. You make it sound like they have no aspirations to join other Somalis which is not actually true in regards to the contemporary, historical, geographical and economic reality of things.

Also they are not sovereign. It is a flipping colonial military base. It is not thriving cuz it is impoverished backwater with no resources.

First you tried to get away by comparing Djibouti to Ughyurs,balkans and the kurds, Then when i showed you have incomparable it was by pasting an overview, which you can google in 2 sec you then tried to deviate.
Your ''Go to'' argument is ''Soveriegn'' saaxiib yet that falls flat on its bum. Sovereign nation that thrives?

What have you been smoking?

In regards to the Kurds, Uyghurs and various Balkan ethnic groups, my argument was that their conflicts have always revolved around the treasured sovereignty that Djibouti has. That was the extent of that reference.

Djibouti is still a sovereign nation whether you believe it or not. The nations that have military bases in Djibouti requested permission from the Djiboutian government and were granted access. As well as requesting permission, they also compensate Djibouti with billions of dollars as well as military aid and not to mention, trade is stimulated by their presence. Having foreign military bases on its soil doesn't negate Djibouti's sovereignty and to say so, one must be very misinformed.

Again, your ill-informed posts on this message board won't change the reality on the ground. Djiboutians want nothing to do with a failed state that is still marred by instability, terrorism, clan warfare, poverty and a host of other ills that could be listed for days if not weeks.

They want nothing to do with you. Leave those people in peace. The Djiboutian people have ambitions of prosperity and merging with the failed state will surely not help them reach those aspirations.

 

[Grant]

Fixed it for you based on facts. Still this Somali Weyn borders are wrong, because there are still many lands not colored from the Dir and Hawiye Somali under the Oromia region.

Besides
Degoodi,
Ajuraan and
Garre


all trace to Samaale not Hawiye.
Especially outside of Somalia do not claim to be Hawiye.

Garre of whom 1 of the 2 branches descends from Dir, The Quranyow of the Dir Irir Samaale. The Quranyow who dominate the Maadheera district of Kenya and in Southern Somalia thanks to isolation from other Garre's have formed and alliance with the Digil confederation.

The Garre and Gariire of the Dir. What an old Somali map even proves.

They today inhabit the Qarsadula, Gura-damol and Gorobakaks of the Somali region.

The Gaadsen and the Surre whom inhabit the Doolo Odo and Dolobay woredas.

You're welcome.

Roble,

Your quote states that part of the Garre claim to be Dir, which I understand, but I am not sure what that changes. The other part is Hawiyye, and the Ajuuraan, and Degodia are Hawiyye clans. My point with this map was that the colonial powers divided the Samaales along totally aritficial and unnatural lines, the best examples being the Cisse, Gadabursi and Isaaq grazing areas in Ethiopia, and the Aulihan split between Ethiopia, Somalia and the NFD. It was a clear anti-Somaliweyn effort.

https://operationoverload.wordpress.com/2009/04/29/the-ajuuraan-dynasty-of-the-hawiyya/

"The Darandoolle, it should be noted, were part of the Gurqaate, a clan section collateral to the Jambelle Hawiyya from whom Ajuran (and Gareen) is said to have been descended. Intermarriage among the descedants of these uterine brothers on the one hand helped reinforce the solidarity of the Hawiyya. On the other hand, competition between collateral lines was very common in Somalia, particularly where the titular leadership of a larger clan-confederation was at stake. Such a struggle for the dominant place within the Hawiyya-dominated Ajuran confederation may also be reflected in the rise of the Silcis and El Amir in the later years of Ajuran rule. Both are said to have been descedants of Gurqaate Hawiyya, as were the Abgaal Darandoolle. Thus it can be argued that the dominant groups which appeared toward the end of the Ajuran era—the Darandoolle near Muqdisho, the Silcis near Afgooye, and the El Amir in Marka—represent the partition of the Ajuran imamate among collateral Hawiyya sections. Or perhaps one branch of the Hawiyya—namely the Gurqaate—forcibly replaced another (the Jambelle) as leaders of the confederation.
This second hypothesis better explains the apparent “disappearance” of the Ajuran by suggesting that the line of Gareen Jambelle was eclipsed politically by the more numerous and widespread Gurqaate. In the Somali setting, power ultimately comes from the fighting strength of a clan and its allies; and domination most often depends on the relative numerical superiority of the dominant. Thus the decline of Ajuran power in political terms conceivably resulted from shifts in the demographic structure Page: 109 of the original alliance network. Indeed, clans of Gurqaate and Guggundabe affiliation were the dominant representatives of the Hawiyya clan family in the Shabeelle valley area at the beginning of the twentieth century. The bulk of Jambelle Hawiyya (including the Ajuran) are today located west of the Jubba River."

 

[Grant]

Thriving. Somalia was thriving under the Ajuuran Empire, until these unwanted cadaan bastards came and destroyed everything.

Uh, no.
The Ajuuraan were overthrown by the Hiraab. The Hiraab Imamate lasted from the 15th-16th century to about 1880.

https://operationoverload.wordpress.com/2009/05/05/the-hiraab-imamate/

 

[Zak Jingo]

Uh, no.
The Ajuuraan were overthrown by the Hiraab. The Hiraab Imamate lasted from the 15th-16th century to about 1880.

https://operationoverload.wordpress.com/2009/05/05/the-hiraab-imamate/

The country was thriving under Ajuuran, and the successors where weak and useless.

 

[waraabe]

The country was thriving under Ajuuran, and the successors where weak and useless.

The Ajuuran didn't rule djibouti like you claimed earlier

 

[Zak Jingo]

The Ajuuran didn't rule djibouti like you claimed earlier

Sxb, your confused, I said Adal Sultanate ruled Djibouti.

 

[King Dir]

@Geeljire You're an idealist, don't be disheartened. The best you can do is treat Djiboutian folks as you would your own. I've seen many non waqooyi Somalis talk about them as if they weren't ethnically Somalis.

 

[Suxuufi]

"Misery needs company"
Is djbouti Somalia?
What will somali galbeed do if ethiopia dissentigrates?
Somaliland doesn't exist
Waryadhaheen hold on to the little bit of "somalia" you have left, meeshu marhore balaga yaacay
Even Punaniland separates everytime it's on it's period

 

[Suxuufi]

DId this guy really say somaliland comes from Somalia and engLand

Adeero xaal kaaweydiin maayee, Mala fadhikudirirku xeer hoosumaraya

 

[Geeljire]

@HalyeeyQaran @Grant @King Dir @Rooble

Djibouti Obsolete Borders​

The Geographical Reality:
The borders have no bearing on the population distribution. Djibouti is populated by the Issa clan who lives also Awdal in Somalia as well as the Shinile Zone located in the Somali Region of Ethiopia. Entire families live on equal sides of the colonial carved out borders and going back and forth between these places. Which shows that the population living in Djibouti do not solely identify with that one single area but with two other regions (Somalia,Galbeed) which they are physically, culturally and ecomomically tied to.

The Economic reality:

Issa clan as stated share nummeral economical links with their family on opposite sides of the borders. Some through hagbad/ayuuto are heavily interdependent on eachother. Other methods are clan sholarship, inter clan financial schemes etc. By using the Somali remittance systems by sending eachother financial support through Hawalaad.

You can even mention how Djibouti is heavily trade-dependent on their Somali counterpart in the different regions of the Horn.
Read-------> https://www.chathamhouse.org/sites/files/chathamhouse/public/Research/Africa/0910majid.pdf


The Historical reality:

Reffendrums were held in djibouti wether it was to remain with France or to join the Somali Republic. Despite 100% of Somalis voted for the Union with Somali Republic, the refendrum was found to be rigged by the French authority, with the French expelling thousands of Somalis before the refrendrum reached the polls. The majority of those voted No was Somalis who were strongly in favor of joining their fellow Somali brothers and sisters lead by Maxamuud Xarbi the Vice President of the Government Council. The refrendum turned out in favor of the Europeans and the sizeable Afar community to stay with France.

Once the refrendrum reach the polls in face of all the tension, the Vice President gave the famous historical speech “We must achieve independence; we prefer death to life under the aegis of imperialism”.

This is telling because it shows that the existence of Djibouti is not a reflection of Somali self determination or the right by a Sovereign people decide their destiny. Rather it is an imposition by the french authorities. By accepting Djibouti as infinite entity we are accepting a destiny layed out by outsiders.

Conclusion:

Djibouti is a linguistic vestige of colonialism, nested in the notion of divide and rule, which articulates a perception based on European terms of homogeneity. The notion of some invisible borders, which divides The North from the South, is rooted in imperialist designs, which in part assumes that artificial borders is an obstacle for Somali language, culture and Self determination. This imposed artificially created border hence confines Somali to the bottom of a European imposed location, which exists neither Historically,Economically nor Physically.

Ethnically (Somali), Religiously (Islam), Politically (African Union, Arab league, UNESCO), Economically (IGAD) or physically (Somalia and Galbeed).The over emphasis on colonial borders which have no bearing on reality as a defining feature in Somali history is grossly misleading as cultures, trade, kinship and languages do not stop when they meet geographic hand drawn lines . Thus Djibouti is another divisive vestige of colonial domination which balkanized the Somali Nation.

 

[Geeljire]

@Geeljire You're an idealist, don't be disheartened. The best you can do is treat Djiboutian folks as you would your own. I've seen many non waqooyi Somalis talk about them as if they weren't ethnically Somalis.

I was gone for a few hours because i had something else do, so i didn't read the comments after my post, yet i come back to you advising me not to be disheartened.

I'm definitely not a naive idealist, you can call me progressive/revolutionary minded. Or a Pan-Somalist because unlike some jokers Pan-Somalism is not a cosmetic accessory to me. Pan-Somalinism means all Somalis united under a Somali flag.
You will see pseudo intellecual youth throw around the word Pan-Somali, ignorant of the very first definition of Pan-Somalism, is unity.

As i have said it before ''You can create artificial borders between us but you can never escape the reality of being Somali''

 

[Rooble]

And here for the Dagoodi and Gaaljecel who they claim to be Jambeele.

 

[Rooble]

Roble,

The other part is Hawiyye, and the Ajuuraan, and Degodia are Hawiyye clans.

https://operationoverload.wordpress.com/2009/04/29/the-ajuuraan-dynasty-of-the-hawiyya/

"The Darandoolle, it should be noted, were part of the Gurqaate, a clan section collateral to the Jambelle Hawiyya from whom Ajuran (and Gareen) is said to have been descended. Intermarriage among the descedants of these uterine brothers on the one hand helped reinforce the solidarity of the Hawiyya. On the other hand, competition between collateral lines was very common in Somalia, particularly where the titular leadership of a larger clan-confederation was at stake. Such a struggle for the dominant place within the Hawiyya-dominated Ajuran confederation may also be reflected in the rise of the Silcis and El Amir in the later years of Ajuran rule. Both are said to have been descedants of Gurqaate Hawiyya, as were the Abgaal Darandoolle. Thus it can be argued that the dominant groups which appeared toward the end of the Ajuran era—the Darandoolle near Muqdisho, the Silcis near Afgooye, and the El Amir in Marka—represent the partition of the Ajuran imamate among collateral Hawiyya sections. Or perhaps one branch of the Hawiyya—namely the Gurqaate—forcibly replaced another (the Jambelle) as leaders of the confederation.
This second hypothesis better explains the apparent “disappearance” of the Ajuran by suggesting that the line of Gareen Jambelle was eclipsed politically by the more numerous and widespread Gurqaate. In the Somali setting, power ultimately comes from the fighting strength of a clan and its allies; and domination most often depends on the relative numerical superiority of the dominant. Thus the decline of Ajuran power in political terms conceivably resulted from shifts in the demographic structure Page: 109 of the original alliance network. Indeed, clans of Gurqaate and Guggundabe affiliation were the dominant representatives of the Hawiyya clan family in the Shabeelle valley area at the beginning of the twentieth century. The bulk of Jambelle Hawiyya (including the Ajuran) are today located west of the Jubba River."

 

[VixR]

Lol. Is Djibouti apart of Somalia was actually a point of argument on here. Y'll have lost your minds! Well, it ISN'T.

 

[Geeljire]

Djibouti is not part of Somalia. But they are part of the Somali Nation. The Somali Nation does not recognize obsolete borders which have no bearing on reality.

 

[waraabe]

Lol. Is Djibouti apart of Somalia was actually a point of argument on here. Y'll have lost your minds! Well, it ISN'T.

I want you to be part of me

 

[Freebandz]

Lol. Is Djibouti apart of Somalia was actually a point of argument on here. Y'll have lost your minds! Well, it ISN'T.

Shut up woman

 

[Canuck]

Lol. Is Djibouti apart of Somalia was actually a point of argument on here. Y'll have lost your minds! Well, it ISN'T.

It is the separatists and Madow who are arguing not true Somalis