Apollo
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Arabs wanna be white, Somalis wanna claim Arab, Bantus wanna claim Somali ilaahi amarkiis
Lol, the only Bantus that claim Somalis are Rwandans and Burundians because of the Tutsi myths.
Jamaacatul DNA two Somalis took the Full Y-DNA for Haplogroup T
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Lol, the only Bantus that claim Somalis are Rwandans and Burundians because of the Tutsi myths.
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If it is established that the TMRCA of the subclade we share with our Arab cousins is 5000ybp, your theory is the most logical I have heard. I remember reading that one of the ancient admixtures found in the Tobou is similar to the 3000ybp admixture introduced into the Horn by the Eurasian back flow. It is possible that their Haplogroup T lineage and ours entered Africa around the same time. Nonetheless, I do not think the theory that our T lineage was present in Africa during the hypothesised start of the Cushitic migrations into Ethiopia and the Southern Highlands will not fit in with the estimated TMRCA of our subclade.
Well , what do you know..we really are ARABZ N SHIET!
Somali T carriers split from their Kuwaiti counterparts thousands of years ago even before the ethno-linguistic group designated "Arab" even existed. We are not Arabs , we just a share a common ancestor.
Looking at the TMRCA estimates (5000YBP) It's possible T arrived with the Eurasian back flow that geneticists say took place 3000ybp (late neolithic). 2000 yrs is ample time for them to have migrated from the fertile crecsent where they split from their now Arab cousins. Since these migrants were primarily Farmers and Herders , it would be insane to suggest they came here by boats from the Arabian peninsula. These Eurasians (who our T ancestor could have migrated with) without a doubt followed the Nile from Egypt/Sudan into Northern Ethiopia , once you consider their livelihood.
If it is established that the TMRCA of the subclade we share with our Arab cousins is 5000ybp, your theory is the most logical I have heard. I remember reading that one of the ancient admixtures found in the Tobou is similar to the 3000ybp admixture introduced into the Horn by the Eurasian back flow. It is possible that their Haplogroup T lineage and ours entered Africa around the same time. Nonetheless, I do not think the theory that our T lineage was present in Africa during the hypothesised start of the Cushitic migrations into Ethiopia and the Southern Highlands will not fit in with the estimated TMRCA of our subclade.
@Penguin
I would not entirely dismiss the Southern Red Sea route as the Semitic expansion into the Horn of Africa is estimated to have occurred towards the end of the Neolithic era; they are thought to have arrived by boat. Hence, it is within the realms of possibility that our ancestor could also have arrived via the Southern Red Sea route.
I would not entirely dismiss the Southern Red Sea route as the Semitic expansion into the Horn of Africa is estimated to have occurred towards the end of the Neolithic era; they are thought to have arrived by boat. Hence, it is within the realms of possibility that our ancestor could also have arrived via the Southern Red Sea route.
Penguin
Lapsed anti-qabiilist
@anonimo
Yes , it is definetly within the realms of possibility since South semites have had a huge influence on the genetics and language of Horners. the D'mt kingdom which arose around the same time of the Eurasian backflow (2900ybp) is thought to have originally been a Sabaean colony..
But when it comes to probability i'm banking on the Eurasian backflow (levant via Egpt). Reason being is that T is heavily associated with neolithic farmers and has been found in many ancient neolithic settlements all over MENA and Europe. It would be surprising if no T lineages were introduced during the Eurasian back flow, considering it was a major migration involving thousands.
If T lineages came via the Gulf of aden after or before the Eurasian back flow , then we should expect diversity in Horn African subclades ,we should observe a split between Egyptian sub clades and Arabian subclades. More Horn/East Africans T carriers need to be tested to see if this is truly the case.
Yes , it is definetly within the realms of possibility since South semites have had a huge influence on the genetics and language of Horners. the D'mt kingdom which arose around the same time of the Eurasian backflow (2900ybp) is thought to have originally been a Sabaean colony..
But when it comes to probability i'm banking on the Eurasian backflow (levant via Egpt). Reason being is that T is heavily associated with neolithic farmers and has been found in many ancient neolithic settlements all over MENA and Europe. It would be surprising if no T lineages were introduced during the Eurasian back flow, considering it was a major migration involving thousands.
If T lineages came via the Gulf of aden after or before the Eurasian back flow , then we should expect diversity in Horn African subclades ,we should observe a split between Egyptian sub clades and Arabian subclades. More Horn/East Africans T carriers need to be tested to see if this is truly the case.
Don't get me wrong, there was an introduction of T lineages into Africa from the Levant, and even Iberia if the findings of the Moroccan paper are accurate.
Considering how diverse the T-M184 subclades are in Africa, I got a feeling that East Africans/Horners will belong to more than one subclade. That being said, I can see us sharing a subclade with Horners such as the Afar.
More Africans definitely need to be tested!
Penguin
Lapsed anti-qabiilist
Yeah i agree , the Cushitic lineage and geographic proximity makes it likely that we belong to the same subclade.
The most curious case of T in South Eastern Africa is the Lemba who belong to a obscure langaab subclade of T (T1b) that is not common in Africa and probably entered in a different time/place than T1a. What's more interesting is that in their oral history they claimed descent from the middle east and there's actually some truth to it lol.
Apollo
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The Lemba are paternally admixed from medieval era merchants. The Neolithic Mideast ancestry in South Cushites is much older and detected even in 3,000 year old remains. It's not from the same source.
Penguin
Lapsed anti-qabiilist
That might explain why their DNA corroborates their Oral history , since it's relatively recent admixture.
Unlike our "We Wuz Bani Hashim" brothers , they are not liars
Apollo
VIP
That might explain why their DNA corroborates their Oral history , since it's relatively recent admixture.
Unlike our "We Wuz Bani Hashim" brothers , they are not liars
They autosomally cluster with the Zulu though, they aren't that different from their neighbors besides the paternal lineages.
I know about them bro, they also possess a Middle Eastern J lineage. Their exotic y-dna correlates with their oral history. Fascinating!
Also, bear in mind that you had Persians/Arabs as far South as Mozambique and Madagascar during the Middle Ages. T has entered Africa from Eurasia at different times, and from different areas.
Thus why autosomal DNA is limited when investigating male-mediated gene flow that introduced 'exotic' y-dna lineages in a population.
Xaagi-Cagmadigtee
Guul ama Dhimasho
I read somewhere that Afar are 25% T. There are also many oral stories from my reer Abti that some of the Afar are Samarone. So there is long relations between Dir/Afar.
Automaton
The founder of Somali Civil Liberties Union(SCLU)
Do we actually know this? I haven't seen any Rahanwayn test results. How do you also explain their dialect? We can't go by the accepted general knowledge because it's made up. From this thread, we know now that Dir is decedent from Arab and Darod is local which is the opposite of what we've been told.
I think you are confusing them with the E-V22 Saho bro. The dominant lineage among the Afar going by the combined data of the Plaster and Iacovacci papers are E-V6 and J-M267. They also have a minority of A-M118, T-M184 and other E1b1b lineages including E-V32 and E-V22. This is not surprising considering their mixed Semitic and Cushitic heritage, and the fact that they do not hide their Gashanbur structure. They are like the Digil iyo Mirifle of Somalia.
When I looked at the STR's of the Djiboutian Afars sampled in Iacovacci paper, it is fairly apparent that the haplogroup T found among them is not that different than the Dir Djiboutians nor is it that different than my own or the HY ones on FTDNA. Hence, it is very probable that we share ancestry and a common subclade with the Djiboutian Afar haplogroup T individuals. Nonetheless, a y-full test would be required to confirm my hypothesis in regard to the Djiboutian Afars.
Do you remember that academic paper (2017) I sent you on the Gurgura. Read it again and you will see how it might not necessarily be the Ciise that assimilated into the Afar. Don't know if it can be ascertained but considering how the Samaroon, Gurgura and Ciise share a historical border with the Afar; I would not be surprised if there have been cases of assimilation at some point in history.
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We brought you Camels, the Samaale Xeer Aji and converted y'all semi-naked savages to Islam. Who said Darood is local? They are from Eritrea.
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Not historically, the Adal Empire was more Afar than Somali if one was to be honest. We pushed them beyond Djibouti in the past 500 years, particularly the warrior Ciises.
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