Jamaacatul DNA two Somalis took the Full Y-DNA for Haplogroup T

[Apollo]

As a noble warsangali sultan I'm J-L859

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[Xaagi-Cagmadigtee]

I read somewhere that Afar are 25% T. There are also many oral stories from my reer Abti that some of the Afar are Samarone. So there is long relations between Dir/Afar.

25% is a high number for an Afar population of 3 million. Could it be the aftermath of the Adal Wars which scattered people all over the region and groups reconstituted by forming new alliances/confederations? You do know that Afars and Oromos (Karrayyu and Ittu) are the eternal enemies of Isa/Dir?

 

[Jas]

25% is a high number for an Afar population of 3 million. Could it be the aftermath of the Adal Wars which scattered people all over the region and groups reconstituted by forming new alliances/confederations? You do know that Afars and Oromos (Karrayyu and Ittu) are the eternal enemies of Isa/Dir?

You are right walaalo. It's really possible because of the enmity.

 

[Jas]

The only Somali sub clan that borders Afars are the Ciise's, so in order for them to invade Borama, they'd need to also invade the Ciise's which I sincerely doubt. Ciise's are the ones who are pushing into Afar land and are the ones who have reached the Awash river. But what would an Akisho aka Oromo know.

We are talking 200 years ago. When the British came to Somaliland, the Afars had a huge native community in Zeila too. Plus the border between them is huge. Things change because of time. That is normal. Colonisation and geopolitics changed many things. Btw I don't feel insulted at all. So it's fine, Oromo are really wonderful people. It is not ceeb to be Oromo.

 

[AbdiJew]

This thread is great news for @Prince Abubu. He's always wanted an Arab connection, even if it is older than Jesus.

 

[MARAQ DIGAAG]

Interesting read .
# Jamaacatu DNA.
#Suugo Science .
# Streets gotta eat .

 

[anonimo]

I read snippets of Futuh but not its entirety. If Adal Empire was predominantly Afar why are they not mentioned in the book, or are they? What about Ifat, the empire before Adal. Who were they? Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

They obviously took part in the Futuh Al Habsh wars, but I don't know what non-Somali groups identified in the book apply to the modern Afar as I am not familiar with their subclan names. We used to call the Afars that neighboured us Oda/Ada Ali if I am not mistaken.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yckMyLVh3oYC&pg=PA47&dq=afar+Oda+ali&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiG95rT6ujYAhWBI1AKHWuKCBwQ6AEIMTAC#v=onepage&q=afar Oda ali&f=false

I am not saying that Adal/Ifat were predominately Afar, just emphasising the fact that they were more exposed to the religious wars that pitted Muslim Semitic speaking/Cushitic speaking Muslims against the Christian Habasha because their lands were immediately adjacent to the territory of the Habasha. The settled Muslim inhabitants of Harar and Shewa were Semitic speaking Muslims whilst the Afar/Saho were the gatekeepers of the Red Sea and hemmed in the Christian Habashas before we expanded beyond Zaila. Thus, it is not surprising that the Adal Sultanate shifted further into Afar territory (Awassa) instead of relocating to Somali inhabited territories. The Afar are also not a monolithic ethnic group, a lot of them are unsurprisingly of Semitic ancestry because they have an older relationship with the Habasha (Muslim and Non-Muslim).

We did not pop out from vacuum. We had presence in the Horn for 2K -- at least.

نحن أبناء الخليج العربي

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[anonimo]

The only Somali sub clan that borders Afars are the Ciise's, so in order for them to invade Borama, they'd need to also invade the Ciise's which I sincerely doubt. Ciise's are the ones who are pushing into Afar land and are the ones who have reached the Awash river. But what would an Akisho aka Oromo know.

Jumping the gun again young man. Gurgura also border the Afar and actually live in the Afar Zone too.

Moreover, Jas is taking about historical times when the borders between Samaroon, Gurgura and Ciise were less rigid. The Gurgura and Samaroon used to marry intermarry in the distant past. Hence, Samaroons could have been exposed to attacks from Afars based around Djibouti and in the Harar/Dire Dawa vicinity.

 

[Prince Abubu]

This thread is great news for @Prince Abubu. He's always wanted an Arab connection, even if it is older than Jesus.

 

[anonimo]

25% is a high number for an Afar population of 3 million. Could it be the aftermath of the Adal Wars which scattered people all over the region and groups reconstituted by forming new alliances/confederations? You do know that Afars and Oromos (Karrayyu and Ittu) are the eternal enemies of Isa/Dir?

Soz, forget to further address the DNA study. The Afar are only 25% haplogroup T in one study, much less when you combine the two papers I quoted in my first reply to you. The 25% figure is from a small sample of 20 sourced from Djibouti. The bigger study conducted on Afars (66) in the Ethiopian Afar Region (Plaster et al) found it at 3%. Furthermore, it can be deduced that it is noticeably absent in Eritrean Afars sampled in the following study http://41.67.20.41:8080/handle/123456789/19964 .

I would not be surprised if there has been some population exchange with the Afars that neighbour us because ethnic boundaries between them, us and the Xabasha Muslims were disrupted following the devastating Futuh wars, and the Oromo migrations. Some Afars even assimilated into the Oromos and vice versa. Moreover, during intra-clan spats, it is not unusual for Somalis to seek sanctuary among 'enemy' clans and subsequently assume the clan identity of their hosts.

Nonetheless, the y-dna STR's of the Djiboutian Haplogroup T Afars, to a large extent, match the Ciise/Samaroon Djiboutians, my own 12 STR markers and the HY FTDNA markers. Thus, it is very likely that they have the same recent origin as us.

 

[Penguin]

I had a thorough look at that HG T tree and damn



The geographic distributions of T subclades are so complex and unpredictable. It's literally all over the place!.


Common sense doesn't apply lol. Geographic proximity , language and culture doesn't mean shit when inferring their respective subclades. I was wrong in saying earlier that the Afar probably belong to our subclade because of the aforementioned reasons. That reasoning is totally flawed.

For example you have a British T carrier who shares a more recent ancestor with an Arab from Iraq than he does with his fellow T brit. You can also find Meccan T carriers who share a more recent ancestor with Western European T carriers than they do with other Meccan T carriers. The Egyptian T carriers from Aswan cluster with West Europeans and not their T neighbors from Sohag Egypt and neither of them share a subclade with us.

Madax xanuun

 

[anonimo]

.

I had a thorough look at that HG T tree and damn



The geographic distributions of T subclades are so complex and unpredictable. It's literally all over the place!.


Common sense doesn't apply lol. Geographic proximity , language and culture doesn't mean shit when inferring their respective subclades. I was wrong in saying earlier that the Afar probably belong to our subclade because of the aformentioned reasons. That reasoning is totally flawed.

For example you have a British T carrier who shares a more recent ancestor with an Arab from Iraq than he does with his fellow T brit. You can also find Meccan T carriers who share a more recent ancestor with Western European T carriers than they do with other Meccan T carriers. The Egyptian T carriers from Aswan cluster with West Europeans and not their T neighbors from Sohag Egypt and neither of them share a subclade with us.

Madax xanuun

If they ain't Y16897...

 

[Prince Abubu]

.




If they ain't Y16897...

How do you know you belong to that subclade? Unless you've taken the Y-full test, I wouldn't make assumptions. T-M70 is a very confusing haplogroup.

 

[Jas]

Jumping the gun again young man. Gurgura also border the Afar and actually live in the Afar Zone too.

Moreover, Jas is taking about historical times when the borders between Samaroon, Gurgura and Ciise were less rigid. The Gurgura and Samaroon used to marry intermarry in the distant past. Hence, Samaroons could have been exposed to attacks from Afars based around Djibouti and in the Harar/Dire Dawa vicinity.

Sheekh Aw-Barre and Sheekh Aw-Buube who are mentioned in the Futuh were both Gurgura Dir and they are buried in the region. That's according to the locals who live in those two towns. Aw-Buube town is west of Quljeed in Awdal and Aw-Barre is just accros the border.

Also there is a place called Biyo Gurgura in Awdal Region showing that they migrated from this Region further West.

 

[Penguin]

How do you know you belong to that subclade? Unless you've taken the Y-full test, I wouldn't make assumptions. T-M70 is a very confusing haplogroup.

I wouldn't be surprised if i belonged to the T1a1a1a subclade instead of the T1a1a2 like my fellow HYs

 

[Grant]

Relative to the high percentage of T in the Afar, take another look at the Neolithic migration into the Red Sea hills theory. The theoretical migration south from there at 3kya could have passed through all of the relevant territories.

https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_T_Y-DNA.shtml

"Haplogroup T emerged from haplogroup K, the ancestor of most of the Eurasian haplogroups (L, N, O, P, Q, R and T), some time between 45,000 and 35,000 years ago. The vast majority of modern members of haplogroup T belong to the T1a branch, which developed during the late glacial period, between 25,000 and 15,000 years ago, possibily in the vicinity of the Iranian Plateau.

Although haplogroup T is more common today in East Africa than anywhere else, it almost certainly spread from the Fertile Crescent with the rise of agriculture. Indeed, the oldest subclades and the greatest diversity of T is found in the Middle East, especially around the Fertile Crescent. Lazaridis et al. (2016) identified one carrier of haplogroup T among the remains of the Pre-Pottery Neolithic B site in Jordan. A T1a sample was also found in the Early Neolithic Linear Pottery (LBK) culture in Germany by Mathieson et al. (2015). By the end of the last glacial period, 12,000 years ago, haplogroup T had already differentiated into subclades such as T1a1a, T1a2, T1a3a and T1a3b. Deeper subclades developed in the Near East during the Early Neolithic period for several millennia before early farmers started expanding beyond the Near East.

Neolithic colonisation of the Arabian peninsula and East Africa
The higher frequency of T in East Africa would be due to a founder effect among Neolithic farmers or pastoralists from the Middle East. One theory is that haplogroup T spread alongside J1 as herder-hunters in the Pre-Pottery Neolithic period, leaving the Zagros mountains between 9,000 and 10,000 BCE, reaching the Egypt and the southern Arabian peninsula around 7,000 BCE, then propagating from there to the Horn of Africa, and later on to Madagascar. However, considering that J1 peaks in Yemen and Sudan, while T1 is most common in southern Egypt, Eritrea and Somalia, the two may not necessarily have spread together. They might instead have spread as separate nomadic tribes of herders who colonised the Red Sea region during the Neolithic, a period than spanned over several millennia. Nevertheless both are found in all the Arabian peninsula, all the way from Egypt to Somalia, and in Madagascar. This contrasts with other Near Eastern haplogroups like G2a and J2, which are conspicuously absent from East Africa, and rare in the Arabian peninsula. Nowadays, T1a subclades dating from the Neolithic found in East Africa include Y16247 (downstream of CTS2214) and Y16897. Other subclades dating from the Bronze Age (see below) are present as well, such as Y15711 and Y21004, both downstream of CTS2214."

 

[anonimo]

How do you know you belong to that subclade? Unless you've taken the Y-full test, I wouldn't make assumptions. T-M70 is a very confusing haplogroup.

Full y-tests are too expensive for researchers (generally) and amateur genealogists, hence data can be extrapolated from STR test results when determining how males that share the same haplogroup are related. The Sanchez et al study used STR's when it estimated that the Somali haplgroup T carriers that they sampled had a common ancestry with the last two millenniums or so. The Djiboutian study also used STR's when establishing that the Dir T samples were closely related.

My STR markers are present in the Sanchez T samples (HT-84), so is a HY (HT-82). Hence, if one of us tests positive for a subclade downstream Y16897 on the y-full test, anyone else who is a very close match for our individual STR's is more than likely to be Y-16897 because it has a very old TMRCA and precedes the TMRCA estimate of Sanchez's Somali T samples by thousands of years.

How do you think I or one of the guys in the following thread were confident that Dirs that are haplogroup T will most likely belong to a subclade of Y16897?

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?11631-hg-T-in-Somalis-Could-it-have-come-with-Islam

I know my shit and I ain't gonna waste money on what I already know. Anything else?

I wouldn't be surprised if i belonged to the T1a1a1a subclade instead of the T1a1a2 like my fellow HYs

Penguin

Don't confuse yourself with the variety of subclades. T-M184 is thought to be more than 20,000 years old, and has spread far and wide since then. What matters is young subclades of T-M184 that can be identified through the y-full tests.

You have taken an STR test with FTDNA? If you match closely any of the following HY guys, you belong to the same subclade lineage. They even predicted that these fellows would belong to Y16897 without a y-full test. There is no need for you or me to take a y-full test unless you have cash to burn!

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Y-Haplogroup-K2/default.aspx?section=yresults

 

[Penguin]

@anonimo You're right inadeer waan ku degdegay , as is expected from a Jamacatu DNA novice.



Out of the entire FTDNA database i matched with 6 people. 2 Europeans and 4 Somalis.

2 Somalis being H.Yoonis , 1 H.Jeclo , 1 unspecified. If they only match and group people belonging to the same subclade then i belong to T1a1a2b2 , because i'm grouped with the Arreh Saeed brother who did the Yfull.

 

[anonimo]

Sheekh Aw-Barre and Sheekh Aw-Buube who are mentioned in the Futuh were both Gurgura Dir and they are buried in the region. That's according to the locals who live in those two towns. Aw-Buube town is west of Quljeed in Awdal and Aw-Barre is just accros the border.

Also there is a place called Biyo Gurgura in Awdal Region showing that they migrated from this Region further West.

Walal, sorry for getting back to your post late, Jamacatu DNA tendencies got the better of me.

Easy with the connections linking historical individuals mentioned in Futuh Al Habash with particular Somali clans unless explicitly stated.

Forget Futuh Al Habash, you have a Bah/Habar subclan in Samaroon that are matrilineal descendants of Gurgura. Furthermore, they still live within the same vicinity as demonstrated by the presence of Samaroons in Dembel Woreda.

Can I give you some friendly advice Ina Adeer. As this is an online community, anonymity allows some of us to act in a savage manner. Avoid bait when it is thrown your way, Sharaftada Ilaasho.

 

[anonimo]

@anonimo You're right inadeer waan ku degdegay , as is expected from a Jamacatu DNA novice.



Out of the entire FTDNA database i matched with 6 people. 2 Europeans and 4 Somalis.

2 Somalis being H.Yoonis , 1 H.Jeclo , 1 unspecified. If they only match and group people belonging to the same subclade then i belong to T1a1a2b2 , because i'm grouped with the Arreh Saeed brother who did the Yfull.