liberal ethio-philia phenomenon deep dive

[wonyluvr]

@Idilinaa are you a man or a woman

 

[Midas]

They benefited a lot from Portuguese and Dutch traders and missionaries entering their country in the early 1500-1600s , they introduced a bunch of things and they readily adopted it.


They have as a result a number of portuguese loanwords:

Glossary of Japanese words of Portuguese origin - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The portuguese and various Europeans tried to introduce those same mechanical devices, printing press(for mass book production) , technologies , sciences, medicine etc things to Ethiopia and they outright rejected things.

This from the thread you made some time ago: SOCIETY AND TECHNOLOGY IN ETHIOPIA 1500-1800

''After the king saw the work that it did, he had it dismantled it right away saying that thing had no use in his country because he was always moving in a camp throughout his Kingdom and he would not carry with him those machines and he would not carry with him those machines which were always fixed in one place . As if that device would serve only wherever he himself happened to be and not his entire kingdom''


I wonder if Somalis could have benefited in the same way if they weren't hostile towards us at the behest of Ethiopians or had a bias towards ''Moors'' as they called them.

Ethiopia sent out many letters urging Portugal and Spain to attack and occupy our coast, instead of entering diplomatic trade missions the way they did with Japan.

I've loekwy though about scenarios where we imported a printing press from the portugese as payment for a truce. and started writing down our own language way back then. After I looked into it for a bit I realized that this would. Have been too expnsive for us. My suspicion is that somalia was too decentralized to benefit from this and the technology wasn't advanced enough in the 1600s.

 

[ila-soco]

when they do they often take pseudo-pan african historical stances

beaming the ethiopian propaganda straight into their brains

 

[ila-soco]

i havent even covered 30% of the historical context for all this, didn't even get to the real meat and bones of this topic which is the propaganda of the TPLF regime. they executed the propaganda perfectly and had the entire world fooled. alx those ibliiseen are gone they were the smart ones.
all i posted doesn't even touch 10% of this topic, this shit genuinely needs to be studied thoroughly

 

[Idilinaa]

I've loekwy though about scenarios where we imported a printing press from the portugese as payment for a truce. and started writing down our own language way back then. After I looked into it for a bit I realized that this would. Have been too expnsive for us. My suspicion is that somalia was too decentralized to benefit from this and the technology wasn't advanced enough in the 1600s.

Somalia was extremely centralized back then. A lot of the same portuguese and other Europeans who would pass by would make note of it.

They were also already using different mechanical devices like water wheels, mechanical oil pressers, mechanical mills, mechanical textile spinners and reeling.

And Zeila was a hub for book production, clock making and ship building.

Somalia in the 1500-1600s would have been in the best position to take advantage of the printing press. Along with other stuff.

 

[Midas]

Somalia was extremely centralized back then. A lot of the same portuguese and other Europeans who would pass by would make note of it.

They were also already using different mechanical devices like water weels, mechanical oil pressers, mechanical mills, mechanical textile spinners and reeling.

And Zeila was a hub for book production, clock making and ship building.

Somalia in the 1500-1600s would have been in the best position to take advantage of the printing press. Along with other stuff.

For the printing press specifically one of the reasons it didn't take off in the ottman empire is becuase in the early stages a printing press is so expensive only the kings of powerful euroepan countries were able to finance it and subside it and even then it still failed several times. An Arabic script was even more expensive and we woukd have had extra costs from having to import the craftsmen and paper. You also need a large market for it to be profitable to print your books. With europe most early books were printed in latin and everybody in europe could read latin.

 

[Idilinaa]

beaming the ethiopian propaganda straight into their brains

Also creating a false interpretation of history built around modern creation of ''Africa'' by Europeans. When Somalia was just tied to North Africa(Egypt/Sudan mostly) and Middle east culturally , economically and politically.

Our historical experience was different from the common African experience.

I've seen some just maligning Somalis for our connection with Arabs we've had for thousands of years, even prior to Islam and try to punish us for how our culture is similar to theirs. It's like maligning Japan for their connections with their neighbor China. Saying that they are chinese begs iyo ''ana chinese'' . It's ridiculous.

So they don't approach our history in the best way. It also bleeds into their interpretation of modern geo-political history as well.

 

[ila-soco]

I think the comparison of japan with ethiopia was always funny. No hate to ethiopia but I watched a movie once which was based on war between Japan and Korea in 1597 called Battle of Myeongnyang . in that naval war japan fielded like 200 warships. When you read about japan was doing in the 1600s you won't be surprised these guys modernized. calclus was invented in japan independently in the 1600s by a guy called seki kowa. They were so sopsihcated by the 1800sm that they were able to reengineering western technology by translating some Dutch science books and dismantling some of the cannons. By the 1850s. When the ethiopia king began his conquests. The japanese govt was translating over 10,000 western books a year. More than anybody even in the west except maybe the british.

the notion of japan being 'medieval' prior to the US fleets arrival is one of the biggest and most egregious myths in history

 

[Idilinaa]

For the printing press specifically one of the reasons it didn't take off in the ottman empire is becuase in the early stages a printing press is so expensive only the kings of powerful euroepan countries were able to finance it and subside it and even then it still failed several times. An Arabic script was even more expensive and we woukd have had extra costs from having to import the craftsmen and paper. You also need a large market for it to be profitable to print your books. With europe most early books were printed in latin and everybody in europe could read latin.

Didn't the Ottomans ban the print press to maintain control?

How expensive is a printing press? I think it probably would been able to be financed by the wealthiest provinces and cities.

As far as the market it would have probably worked in Somalia because there was a wide internal market to distribute it to and everyone knew Somali & Arabic.

 

[Midas]

Didn't the Ottomans ban the print press to maintain control?

How expensive is a printing press? I think it probably would been able to be financed by the wealthiest provinces and cities.

As far as the market it would have probably worked in Somalia because there was a wide internal market to distribute it to and everyone knew Somali & Arabic.

No it's a common myth that they banned it. But it was that the ottoman sultan didn't go out of his wat to finance the cost of the it. We would had to develop the arabic letters for the machine from scratch . You have to keep in mind while somalia was probaly better than anything you'd find in africa. In europe the market was hundreds of large cities. With large urban pouplations. The people who would finance these things were still only the most richest nobles and kings. As well as the chruch.

 

[Khaemwaset]

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[Khaemwaset]

the notion of japan being 'medieval' prior to the US fleets arrival is one of the biggest and most egregious myths in history

Japan wasn't medieval it was just stuck at the 1600s since it shut its borders like North Korea. But it wasn't at all a completely backwards society like westerners paint it. It was a civilised state with a well defined legal code and structured class system. There was battles between clans to get the title of Shogun/Millitary Dictator sure, but there was always ultimate authority in the Emperor which forced the Centralisation and industrialisation of Japan in the Meji era.

The Japanese Emperor didn't just kill the clans, but he gave these important families stakes in the new Industrial state, the politicians, Army and Navy & corporations subsidised by the government were all owned by former clan warlords. The "Zaibatsu" were a collection of Companies that monopolised many sectors in the Japanese economy and they were all companies owned by previous Samurai and Noble Families which relinquished their millitary power for economic gain.

 

[Idilinaa]

No it's a common myth that they banned it. But it was that the ottoman sultan didn't go out of his wat to finance the cost of the it. We would had to develop the arabic letters for the machine from scratch . You have to keep in mind while somalia was probaly better than anything you'd find in africa. In europe the market was hundreds of large cities. With large urban pouplations. The people who would finance these things were still only the most richest nobles and kings. As well as the chruch.

In Somalia there was 100s towns and a couple of large metropolises, which was outlined in Tarikh Al-Mulik. But yeah i guess you might be right, you would probably need an extraordinary centralized concentration of wealth

Woodblock printing could have been adopted at least , Japan did it until the meiji restoration after being introduced to it in 1590.

What you say must have been the reason why Japan didn't adopt the mechanical printing press until 1848, same with China. They were introduced to it in the 1590s.

 

[Midas]

In Somalia there was 100s towns and a couple of large metropolises, which was outlined in Tarikh Al-Mulik. But yeah i guess you might be right, you would probably need an extraordinary centralized concentration of wealth

Woodblock printing could have been adopted at least , Japan did it until the meiji restoration after being introduced to it in 1590.

What you say must have been the reason why Japan didn't adopt the mechanical printing press until 1848, same with China. They were introduced to it in the 1590s.

I honestly wish some of these somaali traders had brought back woodblockb priting to somalia.
Eve if we didn't develop imagine having historical records and writings from several hundred years ago.

 

[EritreanPost_]

If Ethiopia was 3.000 years old, then Eritrea must be 10.000 years old.

No body, nether the Ethiopian nationalisg nor their western lobbyist, could explain how Ethiopia is 3.000 years old from the river (Nile) to the red sea, when the Adulis-Axumite kingdom, and didn't start in Ethiopian mainland, or when all cities and towns in the red sea region are written in Arabic not Amharic or that the first king of the Adulis-Axumite kingdom was from Adukis Eritrea

 

[ila-soco]

remember how they tried to mainstream ethiopian food as part of the ethnic cuisine 'canon' during the 2010s?. they wanted it up there with mexican, indian, japanese food etc they saw ethnic food was lacked the token black country so they pretty much jumped on this bandwagon


now people are being open and honest about it these days, the hype was manufactured

 

[Idilinaa]

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Japan wasn't medieval it was just stuck at the 1600s since it shut its borders like North Korea. But it wasn't at all a completely backwards society like westerners paint it. It was a civilised state with a well defined legal code and structured class system. There was battles between clans to get the title of Shogun/Millitary Dictator sure, but there was always ultimate authority in the Emperor which forced the Centralisation and industrialisation of Japan in the Meji era.

The Japanese Emperor didn't just kill the clans, but he gave these important families stakes in the new Industrial state, the politicians, Army and Navy & corporations subsidised by the government were all owned by former clan warlords. The "Zaibatsu" were a collection of Companies that monopolised many sectors in the Japanese economy and they were all companies owned by previous Samurai and Noble Families which relinquished their millitary power for economic gain.

Japan was bunch of warring feudal fiefdoms until a rebel warlord Tukugawa centralized the whole island in the 1600s creating unity and order , the shoqun was the real king, while the emperor made into a puppet ceremonial figure until the meji restoration in 1868 basically coup d'etat which restored the emperors power to abolish feudal system of government.

 

[Marmarsi]

View attachment 346078remember how they tried to mainstream ethiopian food as part of the ethnic cuisine 'canon' during the 2010s?. they wanted it up there with mexican, indian, japanese food etc they saw ethnic food was lacked the token black country so they pretty much jumped on this bandwagon


now people are being open and honest about it these days, the hype was manufactured
View attachment 346079

I’m gonna have to stop you right there kkkk. Their food is absolutely delicious, they deffo deserve to be in the top 10 cuisines.

Alot of the people taking digs at ethio food are mostly racists who haven’t even tried it. One guy even called it ’unseasoned’ lol, very bold lie

 

[ila-soco]

If Ethiopia was 3.000 years old, then Eritrea must be 10.000 years old.

No body, nether the Ethiopian nationalisg nor their western lobbyist, could explain how Ethiopia is 3.000 years old from the river (Nile) to the red sea, when the Adulis-Axumite kingdom, and didn't start in Ethiopian mainland, or when all cities and towns in the red sea region are written in Arabic not Amharic or that the first king of the Adulis-Axumite kingdom was from Adukis Eritrea

it's probably the most offensive lie to someones intelligence

i'm supposed to just believe that it's a whole 3000 year long continuous royal bloodline from king solomon to haile selassie? 3000 years from king solomon and it's somehow still untouched until 1974?? it's ridiculous

 

[Idilinaa]

View attachment 346078remember how they tried to mainstream ethiopian food as part of the ethnic cuisine 'canon' during the 2010s?. they wanted it up there with mexican, indian, japanese food etc they saw ethnic food was lacked the token black country so they pretty much jumped on this bandwagon


now people are being open and honest about it these days, the hype was manufactured
View attachment 346079

An Ethiopian scholar saying this

''Their best dish and drink required little or no skill''

It makes sense when i read it back, their dishes are splattering random stuff on a platter.