They talk like this, but if their male friend tried to marry their 9 year old daughter, they would get angry.
Mohammed Hijab gets called a pedo by the far-right, Zionists, and Ryan Garcia after an old video resurfaced in which he talks about underage marriage
- Thread starter Fobnimo Till I Dhimo
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They talk like this, but if their male friend tried to marry their 9 year old daughter, they would get angry.
You are asking me fiqh questions which I do not have much knowledge of. But to get to the point, I do not see an issue with a halal legitimate nikkah. So yes, I have no issue with a grade 4 student getting married as long as they have reached puberty and fulfill whatever else the shariah requires.
Marriage is a good thing, it is not evil or inescapable if it does not work out with the partner. It is halal and encouraged. What is evil is zina.
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You are now moving goal posts. The wali has a right to approve or not of their childs marriage and to whom and for what reason.
What we are discussing is Islamic law. This is the religion of Islam and its laws, what Muslims believe in.
Do you believe in the Islamic ruling that marriage is permissible at puberty? Or do you believe marriage at puberty is immoral? That is the crux of the discussion. Islams position is clear.
I believe I answered your question
As a Wali, why would you refuse your daughter to a man who is a good Muslim. He is attracted to your 9 year old girl, let him take her?
Puberty is not the only measure of being ready for intercourse let alone marriage. This is 2024, not 1500 years ago, when people had to grow up much quicker.
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The issue with the men who refuse to accept that the world has changed, is that all they care about is, that a woman has menstruated, with no regard for her emotional and mental state. Because the truth is, they already get annoyed at a woman having intellect and opinions, so for them, it's even better that she is mentally delayed (a child). Because they see girls and women as sperm receptacles and baby carriers. That's what is truly stomach turning to us women; the true reason why some of you hanker for baby girls.
The things, none of these men live the lives they preach. They donβt live it and they wouldnβt want it for any child under their care. Everything is theory for them but the poor young kid in a poverty stricken country will have to live the reality of what theyβre preaching.
As mentioned, you are moving goal posts. I mentioned parents can choose to approve or deny we are not in disagreement over that. We are not in disagreement over when a particular person and their context is best suited for marriage.
The crux of the discussion is if you think marriage at puberty is moral or immoral as Islamic law stipulates? I have made my position clear and you should too.
I am not moving goal posts, since you believe menstruation is the age for marital suitability. My question is, why would you refuse your friend the right to marry your 9 year old? Is your friend not a good Muslim man who can provide? Does he not have the right to be attracted to your girl?
I think it's immoral to marry little girls in this modern time, absolutely. Unless that girl, somehow, is from a stone-age society and she has been adultified early on. And even then, I look at the girls physical development and the age of her suitor.
I see. I did actually answer your question clearly and said I would have no issue with it as long as it meets the shariah requirements.
Now you have a new question about my personal opinion about the age group. As you are both above avoiding answering the question yourselves and switching to subjective personal opinions and emotional arguments.
My personal experience or opinion is irrelevant. What is relevant is the Islamic ruling, I answered clearly on that.
Now you both should share on whether you believe the Islamic ruling on marriage being permissible at puberty is moral or immoral. Leave out the other criteria of a marriage for now and answer that, it is the main point here.
The issue is that Iβd have to deny medical realities to believe that as soon as a girl gets her period sheβd be ready. Some 9 yr olds get their period, in fact one of the lowest recorded ages is like 8. There are cases of girls in Yemen dying due to intercourse at 8/9 as their bodies arenβt developed and children that young simply canβt consent which is why in Eastern countries such marriages are usually forced with sometimes the girls not even understanding whatβs to come.
The thing is mental development isnβt in line with girls period. If you think that a child that canβt even wrap her mind around sex is ready who has the body of CHILD, then this more than just morality, itβs the denial of scientific evidence via actual deaths and harm of actual girls that has happened to.
This is my main beef with these people who want to marry little girls young. They only use puberty as a measure, when it should be a case by case factor. In addition to CONSENT, in addition to checking the suitability of the spouse. Instead they allow some old man to marry their baby girls, who die of internal bleeding.
Interesting how mental maturity is not taken into account here. I don't understand why modern Muslims try to apply the same mentality as the olden days. Funnily enough, their Islamic leaders in Saudi Arabia don't even marry little girls. They have a legal age of 18.
You are, you are adding separate criteria which we already know exists. We are speaking about the criteria of age/puberty alone right now. Hypothetically, you can imagine all other criteria you are thinking of is met. Is the age of 9 still a problem for you when all other criteria including puberty and whatever else you imagine is there.
I see, you have said you think it is immoral *now*. But it was moral in the past? You need to sort out that cognitive dissonance. The laws of Islam never change.
A 9 year old girl, 1500 + years ago, is not a 9 year old in 2024. Just a 100 years ago, girls and boys were marrying at a young age. In the West, little children had to work to provide. My issue is, that Muslim men, refuse to adjust their lust for little girls to the modern-era and restrain themselves.
The difference between Muslim men and other men, is that other societies adjusted themselves to the changing world. In a world, where child-labour laws exist, and children don't have to act like adults, mentalities and maturity rates have shifted A LOT.
I have never in my life seen a 9 year old girl, who wants to see a penis, let alone have it touch her. Not to mention, the cruelty of asking a 9 year old girl to carry a child. There are teen mothers who bear the mental and physical scars of labour, let alone a child. Even adults struggle with marriage, why would anyone want to burden a child with such a task. There is also the added TRUE layer, of seeing adult men purposefully seek out very young girls, because they are abusive and want to mold a slave wife. Have you ever met a normal adult man, who wants to marry a 9 year old girl, in the modern era? Let's be real, you'd want to see their internet history!
This isn't just about physical readiness, or puberty, what is permissable or not permissable. It's about taking into account all the factors that make someone ready for marriage. Can we focus on protecting the vulnerable?
I have never in my life seen a 9 year old girl, who wants to see a penis, let alone have it touch her. Not to mention, the cruelty of asking a 9 year old girl to carry a child. There are teen mothers who bear the mental and physical scars of labour, let alone a child. Even adults struggle with marriage, why would anyone want to burden a child with such a task. There is also the added TRUE layer, of seeing adult men purposefully seek out very young girls, because they are abusive and want to mold a slave wife. Have you ever met a normal adult man, who wants to marry a 9 year old girl, in the modern era? Let's be real, you'd want to see their internet history!
This isn't just about physical readiness, or puberty, what is permissable or not permissable. It's about taking into account all the factors that make someone ready for marriage. Can we focus on protecting the vulnerable?
I have no reason to believe scientific studies usually conducted by NGO's that have an agenda against Islam and Muslims.
Muslims and all people were marrying young throughout human history, it has never been a problem anywhere until modern times because the dominant ideology is liberalism and it has an issue with family and marriage in general.
Beyond that, puberty is not the only criteria for marriage and usually parents do consider their childrens overall state before approving a marriage. It is the parents who care most for their children and their well-being more then some strangers and ideologically motivated NGO's. We are not going to pretend they are more concerned for Muslim children than their own parents.
If you could answer my question before I go. Do you believe the Islamic position that marriage is permissible at puberty is moral or immoral?
The answer is within your own answer. We all have our own reasons for wanting to approve or deny marriage to our children. The difference between us and you, is that we are not afraid to voice our true opinions about it.
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