Mohammed Hijab gets called a pedo by the far-right, Zionists, and Ryan Garcia after an old video resurfaced in which he talks about underage marriage

[𐒁𐒚𐒒𐒂𐒘𐒂𐒗 𐒎𐒚𐒗𐒗𐒒]

Why doesn't everyone ask themselves, if they would want their 9 year old daughter to get married. Within your own answer, lies your true opinion on this topic. And it doesn't mean that you disapprove of what people did 1500 + years ago, or that you are a heathen or whatever other things people wish to insinuate.

It just means you understand that your child is a child, and we're not in the stone-ages, or in some other extreme living condition where children are forced to grow up as soon as their motor abilities kick in.

 

[Galool]

A 9 year old girl, 1500 + years ago, is not a 9 year old in 2024. Just a 100 years ago, girls and boys were marrying at a young age. In the West, little children had to work to provide. My issue is, that Muslim men, refuse to adjust their lust for little girls to the modern-era and restrain themselves.

So it was moral then and the Islamic law is immoral now? Is that your stance?

Is your stance that Islamic law should change and adapt to modern liberal standards with the rest of the world and leave the archaic 7th century norms (the sunnah in this case) behind?

The difference between Muslim men and other men, is that other societies adjusted themselves to the changing world. In a world, where child-labour laws exist, and children don't have to act like adults, mentalities and maturity rates have shifted A LOT.

I have never in my life seen a 9 year old girl, who wants to see a penis, let alone have it touch her. Not to mention, the cruelty of asking a 9 year old girl to carry a child. There are teen mothers who bear the mental and physical scars of labour, let alone a child. Even adults struggle with marriage, why would anyone want to burden a child with such a task. There is also the added TRUE layer, of seeing adult men purposefully seek out very young girls, because they are abusive and want to mold a slave wife. Have you ever met a normal adult man, who wants to marry a 9 year old girl, in the modern era? Let's be real, you'd want to see their internet history!


This isn't just about physical readiness, or puberty, what is permissable or not permissable. It's about taking into account all the factors that make someone ready for marriage. Can we focus on protecting the vulnerable?

That is precisely all this discussion is about. You have yet to address the simple question about it.

You are obfuscating with emotional arguments and bringing up separate criteria.

I asked you a hypothetical question. Imagine all the other criteria you are imagining in your head is met. Is a 9 year old at puberty getting married moral or immoral to you as per the Islamic law?

 

[Periplus]

Let me end this back and forth…

@Galool for what reason would you reject your friend of a similar age to you from marrying your 9 year old pubescent daughter?

Provided that this friend of yours meets every single criteria you would look for in a son in law.

NB: I don’t really care about this topic but the back and forth is frustrating me so I’ll save you guys some time lmao.

 

[Periplus]

For the opponents of Galool, the question is: What is your explanation for the Hadith regarding the prophet Muhammad SAW and Aisha RA?

Do you believe the age reported is inaccurate or do you believe the Hadith is inauthentic.

 

[𐒁𐒚𐒒𐒂𐒘𐒂𐒗 𐒎𐒚𐒗𐒗𐒒]

So it was moral then and the Islamic law is immoral now? Is that your stance?

Is your stance that Islamic law should change and adapt to modern liberal standards with the rest of the world and leave the archaic 7th century norms (the sunnah in this case) behind?



That is precisely all this discussion is about. You have yet to address the simple question about it.

You are obfuscating with emotional arguments and bringing up separate criteria.

I asked you a hypothetical question. Imagine all the other criteria you are imagining in your head is met. Is a 9 year old at puberty getting married moral or immoral to you as per the Islamic law?

Emotional? I am weighing up everything that is tied into marriage; sex, pregnancy, trying to maintain a connection with one's spouse etc, etc. Stop trying to act as if I am being unreasonable or rash with my well-thought out opinions on the matter. I suspect this is the usual sexism of painting women as irrational and emotional.

My answer is this; just because something is permissible, doesn't mean it is advisable. Take that how you will.

 

[𐒁𐒚𐒒𐒂𐒘𐒂𐒗 𐒎𐒚𐒗𐒗𐒒]

For example, it is permissable to marry your cousin, is it not? Does that mean it is advisable to keep marrying within your family? We know that inbreeding results in homozygosity, which can increase the chances of offspring being affected by recessive traits.

Just because something is permissible, doesn't mean we need to practise it. It is perfectly acceptable to ask our children to wait until they are physically, emotionally and mentally mature. We don't need to emulate our ancient forebears who lived in harsh environments.

 

[Angelina]

The difference between Muslim men and other men, is that other societies adjusted themselves to the changing world. In a world, where child-labour laws exist, and children don't have to act like adults, mentalities and maturity rates have shifted A LOT.

I have never in my life seen a 9 year old girl, who wants to see a penis, let alone have it touch her. Not to mention, the cruelty of asking a 9 year old girl to carry a child. There are teen mothers who bear the mental and physical scars of labour, let alone a child. Even adults struggle with marriage, why would anyone want to burden a child with such a task. There is also the added TRUE layer, of seeing adult men purposefully seek out very young girls, because they are abusive and want to mold a slave wife. Have you ever met a normal adult man, who wants to marry a 9 year old girl, in the modern era? Let's be real, you'd want to see their internet history!


This isn't just about physical readiness, or puberty, what is permissable or not permissable. It's about taking into account all the factors that make someone ready for marriage. Can we focus on protecting the vulnerable?

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[Galool]

Let me end this back and forth…

@Galool for what reason would you reject your friend of a similar age to you from marrying your 9 year old pubescent daughter?

Provided that this friend of yours meets every single criteria you would look for in a son in law.

NB: I don’t really care about this topic but the back and forth is frustrating me so I’ll save you guys some time lmao.

That is not what this back and forth is about. It is what they are trying to make it about to avoid answering the question. I did answer it. I will even answer the hypothetical I wrote out to make it even more clear. It is perfectly MORAL and acceptable.

I understand you are trying to assist in the obfuscation but discussion was never about what other criteria outside of age/puberty is acceptable.

It is the question of age/puberty in isolation. They can not even bring themselves to answer it.

Which illustrates their issue is deep and with Islamic law and with the marriage of the Prophet sws himself.

What is stopping them from answering is either a cognitive dissonance they have not dealt with within themselves or the implication their response would have on them and all their opinions on Islamic matters.

 

[World]

@El Nino @Afeik_Abiy @Gacmeey

The issue:

Aisha’s age Hadith is one of protection. Muslims are sure of their Hadith methodology. Also, look at the ramifications? If a Hadith is wrong despite being classed as sahih, what about the others? Quranism is simply a dead end. We need Hadiths to pray and the like. And if some of the Hadiths we have believed to be graded as ‘Hassan/sahih’ for at least a 1000 yrs aren’t actually strong but weak, then it does cast and cause a lot of confusion. Hadiths that have been classed as Sahih being factual is necessary. it's boils down to avoiding a slippery slope. In saying that, people like AlBani who is a pretty modern scholar has graded some Hadiths as strong and even some previously strong ones as weak, but even he has acknowledged this Bukhari hadith to be strong. Basically, this debate doesn’t hinge upon the actual age of Aisha but the reliability of certain Hadiths and that’s a can of worms that cannot be opened.

Muslim men on average would never marry a 12 yr old or let their 12 yr old daughters marry generally unless they’re in a poverty stricken backwater place and such a marriage means less mouths to feed. Across every region of the world, when parents have money and resources, they don’t want their kid daughter marrying. They simply don’t. Hence I don’t understand why incel young men love to discuss this. For every so called ‘feminist women’ wincing at it, you’ll find hordes of fathers willing to shoot you if you dare go near their child. Go to any Muslim country that isn’t steeped in poverty, most all get married after 18.

@World What is your view on this? I think you’re pretty intelligent when it comes to Islamic fiqh and history, I’d love to get your opinion on this if possible?

For this Qur'an verse:

As for the women who have reached menopause, if you have any doubts, their interim shall be three months, and as for those who do not menstruate. And for those who are pregnant, their interim ends upon giving birth. Anyone who reverences Allah, He makes everything easy for him. [65:4]

The Aisha hadith is used as evidence that women referred to here: "and as for those who do not menstruate", means prepubescent girls who haven't menstruated. The verse is talking specifically about women whose marriage has already been consummated, so they say it's permissible for a prepubescent girl before she has menstruated for her marriage to be consummated.

However, biologically speaking menstrual irregularities, such as missed or late periods, occur in 14–25% of women of childbearing age. And "Nisa" means women, not a prepubescent girl.

You shall test the orphans when they reach al-nikaah(the age of marriage). Then, if you find them sound in judgement, give them their property. Do not consume it extravagantly in a hurry, before they grow up. The rich guardian shall not charge any wage, but the poor guardian may charge equitably. When you give them their properties, you shall have witnesses. Allah suffices as Reckoner. [4:6]

The marriageable age for orphans is sound judgement, and the competence to have full responsibility to look after their property and financial matters. Legally, this age is said to be 15-17 years old. But, they said this only applies to orphans, and not your children.

 

[Angelina]

That is not what this back and forth is about. It is what they are trying to make it about to avoid answering the question. I did answer it. I will even answer the hypothetical I wrote out to make it even more clear. It is perfectly MORAL and acceptable.

I understand you are trying to assist in the obfuscation but discussion was never about what other criteria outside of age/puberty is acceptable.

It is the question of age/puberty in isolation. They can not even bring themselves to answer it.

Which illustrates their issue is deep and with Islamic law and with the marriage of the Prophet sws himself.

What is stopping them from answering is either a cognitive dissonance they have not dealt with within themselves or the implication their response would have on them and all their opinions on Islamic matters.

You didn’t answer it. He asked you if you’d marry off your 9 yr old kid. It’s a simple yes or no.

 

[𐒁𐒚𐒒𐒂𐒘𐒂𐒗 𐒎𐒚𐒗𐒗𐒒]

@Galool

Aisha (AS), was given to the Prophet SAW by his best friend. So, why would you not give your 9 year old, to your best friend?

Do you think, it is immoral?

 

[Galool]

You didn’t answer it. He asked you if you’d marry off your 9 yr old kid. It’s a simple yes or no.

I did answer it. If all the other criteria you guys are using to obfuscate this discussion is met then yes, no issue with it. Deal with the age in isolation now.

Now you try. If all the other shariah criteria are met, do you believe this hypothetical 9 year olds marriage is immoral or moral?

 

[𐒁𐒚𐒒𐒂𐒘𐒂𐒗 𐒎𐒚𐒗𐒗𐒒]

You didn’t answer it. He asked you if you’d marry off your 9 yr old kid. It’s a simple yes or no.

Why don't they give their 9 year old girls away to their friends, since they claim they like to follow the practises of the Prophet SAW and his Sahaba.

 

[Angelina]

I did answer it. If all the other criteria you guys are using to obfuscate this discussion is met then yes, no issue with it. Deal with the age in isolation now.

Now you try. If all the other shariah criteria are met, do you believe this hypothetical 9 year olds marriage is immoral or moral?

I can’t deal with the age in isolation simply because a 9 yr old child looks like a child. Doesn’t have the body of a woman nor the mentality of a sane adult that can consent. I’ve never seen a 9 yr old that has the intelligence or a body of a sane adult. Have you?

 

[Galool]

@Galool

Aisha (AS), was given to the Prophet SAW by his best friend. So, why would you not give your 9 year old, to your best friend?

Do you think, it is immoral?

100% MORAL like I have said over and over. Now you answer the question and even your own lol.

It is clear as day you both have an issue with Islamic law and are avoiding answering.

That should help you understand why you have an issue with *Muslim* men and their views on this, you have an issue with the Islamic rulings after all. That is the tension, not Muslim men.

 

[Removed]

You didn’t answer it. He asked you if you’d marry off your 9 yr old kid. It’s a simple yes or no.

Wouldnt marry my kid to another nationality doesnt make it the new moral standard for everyone else.

 

[𐒁𐒚𐒒𐒂𐒘𐒂𐒗 𐒎𐒚𐒗𐒗𐒒]

Wouldnt marry my kid to another nationality doesnt make it the new moral standard for everyone else.

You would give your 9 year old daughter away as a bride? A simple yes, or no.

 

[Angelina]

For this Qur'an verse:



The Aisha hadith is used as evidence that women referred to here: "and as for those who do not menstruate", means prepubescent girls who haven't menstruated. The verse is talking specifically about women whose marriage has already been consummated, so they say it's permissible for a prepubescent girl before she has menstruated for her marriage to be consummated.

Does this part mean what I think it means?

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@𐒁𐒚𐒒𐒂𐒘𐒂𐒗 𐒎𐒚𐒗𐒗𐒒 Check this out and check out the classical opinion.

However, biologically speaking menstrual irregularities, such as missed or late periods, occur in 14–25% of women of childbearing age. And "Nisa" means women, not a prepubescent girl.

You shall test the orphans when they reach al-nikaah(the age of marriage). Then, if you find them sound in judgement, give them their property. Do not consume it extravagantly in a hurry, before they grow up. The rich guardian shall not charge any wage, but the poor guardian may charge equitably. When you give them their properties, you shall have witnesses. Allah suffices as Reckoner. [4:6]

The marriageable age for orphans is sound judgement, and the competence to have full responsibility to look after their property and financial matters. Legally, this age is said to be 15-17 years old. But, they said this only applies to orphans, and not your children.

 

[𐒁𐒚𐒒𐒂𐒘𐒂𐒗 𐒎𐒚𐒗𐒗𐒒]

100% MORAL like I have said over and over. Now you answer the question and even your own lol.

It is clear as day you both have an issue with Islamic law and are avoiding answering.

That should help you understand why you have an issue with *Muslim* men and their views on this, you have an issue with the Islamic rulings after all. That is the tension, not Muslim men.

Just because something is permissable, doesn't mean it's advisable. I said that several times and I've said several times, why I take issue with it.

 

[𐒁𐒚𐒒𐒂𐒘𐒂𐒗 𐒎𐒚𐒗𐒗𐒒]

I can’t deal with the age in isolation simply because a 9 yr old child looks like a child. Doesn’t have the body of a woman nor the mentality of a sane adult that can consent. I’ve never seen a 9 yr old that has the intelligence or a body of a sane adult. Have you?

I don't understand why this is so hard to understand.

But then again, we're women, and we don't want a child having sex, let alone give birth, when ADULT WOMEN DIE FROM CHILDBIRTH AND SUFFER COMPLICATIONS.