Name 1 way that The current FGS is better than the Islamic Courts Union

[ICEcold]

@awsaleban667

Most Somalis are against Ethiopian gaal slaughtering Somalis in mosques and destroying the nascent peace and stability that took shape in 2006. Only a small, vocal minority will fight you on this. They subconsciously associate AY with their clan, and themselves as a consequence; to rightfully call out the abhorrent actions by the traitorous entity that was the TFG is essentially an insult to their identity.

Why they feel like this? I have no idea. You won't see others frothing at the mouth and defending the filthy traitor that was Ali Geedi or Qeybdiid. Instead of entrenching themselves in this shameful and indefensible position, they should simply disassociate AY from their identity.

 

[Zak12]

@awsaleban667

Most Somalis are against Ethiopian gaal slaughtering Somalis in mosques and destroying the nascent peace and stability that took shape in 2006. Only a small, vocal minority will fight you on this. They subconsciously associate AY with their clan, and themselves as a consequence; to rightfully call out the abhorrent actions by the traitorous entity that was the TFG is essentially an insult to their identity.

Why they feel like this? I have no idea. You won't see others frothing at the mouth and defending the filthy traitor that was Ali Geedi or Qeybdiid. Instead of entrenching themselves in this shameful and indefensible position, they should simply disassociate AY from their identity.

Exactly. Inviting in Ethiopian troops under any circumstance is peak xaasid behavior. Its what set Somalia back over a decade. The naysayers can claim ICU were extremists all they want but it doesn't change the fact that Al Shabaab only became as powerful as it did when the ICU collapsed.

 

[ICEcold]

Exactly. Inviting in Ethiopian troops under any circumstance is peak xaasid behavior. Its what set Somalia back over a decade. The naysayers can claim ICU were extremists all they want but it doesn't change the fact that Al Shabaab only became as powerful as it did when the ICU collapsed.

They're a small minority; public opinion is very much against what happened. The same apologists regurgitating the same talking points largely hail from one region. You can guess what their motivations are.

The funniest part about this is how they reconcile this position, that has continued to harden for almost 2 decades, with the current MOU debacle. Intuitively you can tell both 2006 and the current MOU situation are both indefensible, so how do they maintain the condemnation of the latter and not he former?

If Ethiopia recognizes Somaliland, imo <10% chance of this happening, federalism is finished.
Recognition of Somaliland by Ethiopia, followed by the creation of an Ethiopian navy stationed on the Gulf of Aden, would transform federalism into a suicide pact.
The only option at that point would be the consolidation of a centralized Somali state.
My support for federalism was always predicated on:

• Ethiopia respecting Somalia's sovereignty
• The consequent lack of a need to build a military capable of taking on the ENDF

Federalism would be indefensible if Ethiopia demonstrates that it has no respect for Somalia's "7" borders.

I suppose you could plead ignorance like our friend here. Apparently the prevailing assumption was that Ethiopia has been, until now, respecting our sovereignty despite occupying Gedo since the 90s and slowly creeping their border into Hiraan. They've been good allies until the renegade Abiy changed their goodwill towards us. Who could have seen this coming? /s

It's interesting how some try to grapple with cognitive dissonance to defend the indefensible.

 

[Yazi]

'very small'

They already took over the courts, the moderates were being pushed out, stop blaming others for your failures.

ICU were divided into 13 sectors. 1 controlled by Al Shabaab, another controlled by Dahir Aweys. The other 11 sectors were moderate and much powerful than both.

 

[Step a side]

Murusade fought heavily under ICU and clan assaults on the Ethiopians in Xamar Jadiid, Bakaaro till Garoonka

AY was used by Zenawi to appoint his tplf agent Gheedi, even the parliament chair fight in Kenya was Qanyares side fighting the Tplf coalition

 

[Ximan iyo Xadeed]

Al Shabaab never bombed shit until the Ethiopian invasion. The Invasion was responsible for strengthening AS

You're right Alshabaab never flogged people for watching sports or bombed anyone

 

[Step a side]

TPLF hated Qanyare since the days he was part of Caydiids SNA in the 90s, Derg were fighting Karanle militia that joined WSLF and SALF for two decades and even Haile Selassie remembers Colonel Cilmi Nuur a Murusade sarkaal leading the Beledweyne front in the 64 War who won the first gold medal for Somalia. Haile Selassi in an interview shortly before he passed away had this to say about Colonol Cilmi

 

[Step a side]

Qanyare was anti Ethiopia, but he had hiraab rivals that forced him to throw his lot with AY, the warlords forgave each other and moved on, we played a key role in the ICU and ARS that fought the TFG

 

[celeizo]

HG were one of the biggest supporters of them if not the biggest, what type of historical revision is this?? Shamelessly lying now.

Ye like Indhocaade or Hassan dahir aweys? Let’s differinate the ones who ideologicaly were aligned with ICU and those who were in it for the ride just too fight, today they are back too their warlord era like indhocaade.

Logically the tribe who had most too lose with ICU governing would be the ones who are squating in private & gov land do you agree? Would not make sense for them too support ICU + many HG are Sufi.

 

[World]

The only thing that should have been important to the ICU is that their new 6 month old state doesn't collapse, nothing else mattered.

So what did they do? The ICU, 5 years post 9/11, proclaimed that they will continue waging jihad until they conquer Alaska as soon as they had control of Mogadishu and that they will pray Jummah in Addis Ababa.

Why? Just because you want to apply Shariah doesn't mean you have to make a public declaration that you are a delusional international jihadist trying to destroy the world order.

The fact that they were too low IQ to understand that, tells me that its a blessing they lost power. It's a shame that terrorist Salafi Jihadist/Wahhabi ideology has destroyed the potential of any Islamic movements.

 

[ICEcold]

The only thing that should have been important to the ICU is that their new 6 month old state doesn't collapse, nothing else mattered.

So what did they do? The ICU, 5 years post 9/11, proclaimed that they will continue waging jihad until they conquer Alaska as soon as they had control of Mogadishu and that they will pray Jummah in Addis Ababa.

Why? Just because you want to apply Shariah doesn't mean you have to make a public declaration that you are a delusional international jihadist trying to destroy the world order.

The fact that they were too low IQ to understand that, tells me that its a blessing they lost power. It's a shame that terrorist Salafi Jihadist/Wahhabi ideology has destroyed the potential of any Islamic movements.

Ethiopia was occupying parts of Somalia proper during this time. Provocative gestures against them by one guy(Indhacadde) amongst thousands in the ICU warrants their dismantlement, and the killing of thousands of Muslims, by Ethiopians?

Also where can I find this Alaska quote? I only see one from Roobow in 2008 after Shabaab split from the ICU.

To summarise your position: it's a good thing the capital was invaded and the ICU was attacked by America, Ethiopia and her lackeys in 2006 because of: Roobow's threats towards Alaska in 2008 after Shabaab split from the ICU and the invasion already happened, and; a quote from one guy amongst thousands (Indhacadde) threatening Ethiopia who was occupying lands in Somalia.

The ICU cleared xamar of criminal gangsters and even gave AY his house back. I'm yet to see any reasonable argument that justifies the TFG allying with Ethiopia to invade Mogadishu and slaughter thousands. For this reason, you get folks like you falling short of explicitly endorsing it and trying to sling mud at the ICU.

I put these questions to you; answer them if you're no coward:
Was the Ethiopian invasion of the capital good for Somalis overall, and were the TFG right to ally with them?

If you believe this to be so, then meh. At least you're not a coward who hides his views. You're far worse, but at least you wouldn't be a coward in this regard

 

[reer]

Ethiopia was occupying parts of Somalia proper during this time. Provocative gestures against them by one guy(Indhacadde) amongst thousands in the ICU warrants their dismantlement, and the killing of thousands of Muslims, by Ethiopians?

Also where can I find this Alaska quote? I only see one from Roobow in 2008 after Shabaab split from the ICU.

To summarise your position: it's a good thing the capital was invaded and the ICU was attacked by America, Ethiopia and her lackeys in 2006 because of: Roobow's threats towards Alaska in 2008 after Shabaab split from the ICU and the invasion already happened, and; a quote from one guy amongst thousands (Indhacadde) threatening Ethiopia who was occupying lands in Somalia.

The ICU cleared xamar of criminal gangsters and even gave AY his house back. I'm yet to see any reasonable argument that justifies the TFG allying with Ethiopia to invade Mogadishu and slaughter thousands. For this reason, you get folks like you falling short of explicitly endorsing it and trying to sling mud at the ICU.

I put these questions to you; answer them if you're no coward:
Was the Ethiopian invasion of the capital good for Somalis overall, and were the TFG right to ally with them?

If you believe this to be so, then meh. At least you're not a coward who hides his views. You're far worse, but at least you wouldn't be a coward in this regard

the icu had indhocadde as a wasiir lol. its a major reason why people outside hawiye saw it as mooryaans who switched too cimaamads.

 

[ICEcold]

the icu had indhocadde as a wasiir lol. its a major reason why people outside hawiye saw it as mooryaans who switched too cimaamads.

Where'd he get the Alaska quote?

 

[World]

Ethiopia was occupying parts of Somalia proper during this time. Provocative gestures against them by one guy(Indhacadde) amongst thousands in the ICU warrants their dismantlement, and the killing of thousands of Muslims, by Ethiopians?

Also where can I find this Alaska quote? I only see one from Roobow in 2008 after Shabaab split from the ICU.

To summarise your position: it's a good thing the capital was invaded and the ICU was attacked by America, Ethiopia and her lackeys in 2006 because of: Roobow's threats towards Alaska in 2008 after Shabaab split from the ICU and the invasion already happened, and; a quote from one guy amongst thousands (Indhacadde) threatening Ethiopia who was occupying lands in Somalia.

The ICU cleared xamar of criminal gangsters and even gave AY his house back. I'm yet to see any reasonable argument that justifies the TFG allying with Ethiopia to invade Mogadishu and slaughter thousands. For this reason, you get folks like you falling short of explicitly endorsing it and trying to sling mud at the ICU.

I put these questions to you; answer them if you're no coward:
Was the Ethiopian invasion of the capital good for Somalis overall, and were the TFG right to ally with them?

If you believe this to be so, then meh. At least you're not a coward who hides his views. You're far worse, but at least you wouldn't be a coward in this regard

"Right", "wrong", "justified", "good", "warranted".

My post is not about about judgement, it's just about facts.

-The ICU made Dahir Aweys, a man who helped bomb the US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in 1998, who was funded directly by Osama bin Laden, who slit the throats of Muslims in mosques, the ideological head of their movement.

-They threatened the world order and were hellbent on creating some dystopian world wide jihadist state and declared they won't stop jihad until Alaska and Addis Ababa were under their control.

-The military wing, head of shurah council(until 2013), secretary general, education secretary, top 2 defence posts and head of Mogadishu security of ICU were all Al Shabab who had deep ties with Al Qaeda dating back to when they fought and trained in Afghanistan under them well before 9/11.

It's just inevitable that the ICU were going to be dismantled, nothing to do with Ethiopia or Abdullahi Yusuf. They just scared the world too much. America isn't just gonna let the ICU try and attack Alaska after 9/11.

 

[attash]

"Right", "wrong", "justified", "good", "warranted".

My post is not about about judgement, it's just about facts.

-The ICU made Dahir Aweys, a man who helped bomb the US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in 1998, who was funded directly by Osama bin Laden, who slit the throats of Muslims in mosques, the ideological head of their movement.

-They threatened the world order and were hellbent on creating some dystopian world wide jihadist state and declared they won't stop jihad until Alaska and Addis Ababa were under their control.

-The military wing, head of shurah council(until 2013), secretary general, education secretary, top 2 defence posts and head of Mogadishu security of ICU were all Al Shabab who had deep ties with Al Qaeda dating back to when they fought and trained in Afghanistan under them well before 9/11.

Nobody was going to go on a global jihad. You can't take the heat-of-the-moment words of some of the most extreme members of the movement and say this seriously represents the agenda of the ICU as a whole. This is the same propaganda they used with the Taliban in order to justify invading Afghanistan. Now that the Taliban are in power, you don't see them trying to attack other countries.

Even amongst Shabaab, originally their agenda was to focus on Somalia only. Eventually there was infighting in the movement between the faction lead by Mukhtar Roobow that wanted to continue only focusing on jihad in Somalia and the faction lead by Ahmed Godane that wanted to do global jihad. Godane's faction won out and Shabaab joined al Qaeda in 2012, 6 years after the Ethiopian invasion.

It's just inevitable that the ICU were going to be dismantled, nothing to do with Ethiopia or Abdullahi Yusuf. They just aren't gonna be allowed to exist.

This is correct. The ICU wasn't a puppet that America could control, so they weren't going to allow it to govern Somalia.

 

[Zak12]

Nobody was going to go on a global jihad. You can't take the heat-of-the-moment words of some of the most extreme members of the movement and say this seriously represents the agenda of the ICU as a whole. This is the same propaganda they used with the Taliban in order to justify invading Afghanistan. Now that the Taliban are in power, you don't see them trying to attack other countries.

Even amongst Shabaab, originally their agenda was to focus on Somalia only. Eventually there was infighting in the movement between the faction lead by Mukhtar Roobow that wanted to continue only focusing on jihad in Somalia and the faction lead by Ahmed Godane that wanted to do global jihad. Godane's faction won out and Shabaab joined al Qaeda in 2012, 6 years after the Ethiopian invasion.

This is correct. The ICU wasn't a puppet that America could control, so they weren't going to allow it to govern Somalia.

ICU was never bad and were always best fit to lead Somalia. The proof is the fact that former members of it were allowed to join the American/UN approved TFG.

 

[World]

Nobody was going to go on a global jihad. You can't take the heat-of-the-moment words of some of the most extreme members of the movement and say this seriously represents the agenda of the ICU as a whole. This is the same propaganda they used with the Taliban in order to justify invading Afghanistan. Now that the Taliban are in power, you don't see them trying to attack other countries.

They invaded Taliban because Al Qaeda were given freedom to operate in their country, so why would they not think it represents the agenda of the ICU when they've declared intent, their 2nd leader Dahir Aweys is accused of bombing their embassies and was funded directly by Bin Laden?

The difference between Taliban is that there is no "heat of the moment words" that exists of them wanting to go outside Afghanistan, they're fiercely against this and only care about their country. Today they are building close relations with Iran and China.

Even amongst Shabaab, originally their agenda was to focus on Somalia only. Eventually there was infighting in the movement between the faction lead by Mukhtar Roobow that wanted to continue only focusing on jihad in Somalia and the faction lead by Ahmed Godane that wanted to do global jihad. Godane's faction won out and Shabaab joined al Qaeda in 2012, 6 years after the Ethiopian invasion.

You do know that Robow, the deputy defense chief of ICU, was training with Al Qaeda in Afghanistan right? He was there with them when 9/11 happened, and has interviews describing the happy celebrations that were happening in the Al Qaeda camp at the time. His ties with Al Qaeda go back to 1992, when the Saudi charity al-Haramain Foundation opened a Mogadishu branch. This 'charity' diverted their $50 million a year funds and donations to provide support to Al Qaeda, Osama bin Laden and terrorism across the Muslim world including Somalia.

 

[Chase]

"Right", "wrong", "justified", "good", "warranted".

My post is not about about judgement, it's just about facts.

-The ICU made Dahir Aweys, a man who helped bomb the US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in 1998, who was funded directly by Osama bin Laden, who slit the throats of Muslims in mosques, the ideological head of their movement.

-They threatened the world order and were hellbent on creating some dystopian world wide jihadist state and declared they won't stop jihad until Alaska and Addis Ababa were under their control.

-The military wing, head of shurah council(until 2013), secretary general, education secretary, top 2 defence posts and head of Mogadishu security of ICU were all Al Shabab who had deep ties with Al Qaeda dating back to when they fought and trained in Afghanistan under them well before 9/11.

It's just inevitable that the ICU were going to be dismantled, nothing to do with Ethiopia or Abdullahi Yusuf. They just scared the world too much. America isn't just gonna let the ICU try and attack Alaska after 9/11.

They were already planning on invading Baidoa to oust the TFG via force, they wanted ICU to establish itself all over Puntland/Somaliland, in other words there was going to be another 90's tier civil war, they even tried to kill Abduallhi Yusuf via suicide bomb attack, it failed but Abduallhi brother died, and these people will still defend the ICU.

Somalia’s president narrowly escaped an assassination attempt Monday by a suicide car bomber outside the parliament building in Baidoa, officials said. The blast and a subsequent gunbattle left 11 people dead, including the president’s brother.

 

[ICEcold]

They threatened the world order and were hellbent on creating some dystopian world wide jihadist state and declared they won't stop jihad until Alaska and Addis Ababa were under their control.

Genuinely I want to know where to find these Alaskan threat quotes. Surely you're not a liar? Please point me to a source. I can only find Robow saying this in 2008 once the invasion was 2 years old and shabaab split from the ICU. Your credibility is at stake here.

If your post is indeed about facts, give me your source.

 

[Chase]

@awsaleban667

Most Somalis are against Ethiopian gaal slaughtering Somalis in mosques and destroying the nascent peace and stability that took shape in 2006. Only a small, vocal minority will fight you on this. They subconsciously associate AY with their clan, and themselves as a consequence; to rightfully call out the abhorrent actions by the traitorous entity that was the TFG is essentially an insult to their identity.

Why they feel like this? I have no idea. You won't see others frothing at the mouth and defending the filthy traitor that was Ali Geedi or Qeybdiid. Instead of entrenching themselves in this shameful and indefensible position, they should simply disassociate AY from their identity.

ICU was going to do the exact same to Puntland, Somaliland and DDSI. So yes, I'm glad the Ethiopians came in, keep your jihadi idealogical filth to yourselves, you will not use the dheen to hide your real agenda.