Puntland gets revenge against Alshabaab

[𐒁𐒚𐒒𐒂𐒘𐒂𐒗 𐒎𐒚𐒗𐒗𐒒]

Did all Raxanweyn vote on this or did some corrupt politicians and elders decide for them?

There is no such thing as an entire clan voting on ANYTHING. However, every clan has formal and informal representatives.
They proposed this initiative first and then Puntland created a federal state to remain autonomous to escape from the civil war and its warlords.

THAT's how Federalism was brought about.

Out of sheer desperation to escape from anarchy (Puntland) or to save a community who has a separate language and a slightly different identity. (Raxanwayn)

 

[MadNomad]

Federalism was concocted by our rivals. A united Somalia isn't what our neighbours and some others would want to see; either for economic or geo strategic reasons.

It won't go away anytime soon unless the President or someone else forcefully takes out these traitors and consolidates power across the country with minimal harm to normal citizens (i.e. no Saddam Hussein type dictator).

If we allow these state "Presidents" to import heavy weapons then that would make it harder to do so.

IMO Al Shabaab is just a distraction and a symptom of no one having full control over the country.

Even if Farmaajo had a decent army... Al Shabaab could easily hide in Puntland or Somaliland and bribe corrupt officials there to keep their eyes closed.

You're right, al shabab isn't even the main thing in the way of a strong Somalia. Federalism is designed to keep us weak and divided. What a hopeless shitshow of a situation we find ourselves in.

 

[𐒁𐒚𐒒𐒂𐒘𐒂𐒗 𐒎𐒚𐒗𐒗𐒒]

That's right.
Federalism is sooooo evil.



Puntland should have sat around and waited until Mogadishu is no longer held hostage by one clan and its warlords masquerading as politicians.

Puntland should have done NOTHING because doing something has made us "weak and divided":

-NOT built schools, hospitals and a system of rule.
-NOT created a constititution.
-NOT created a unified school curriculum
-NOT bartered with the international community for development funds.
-NOT implemented a tax system in order to pay the men and women who prevent us from being attacked or occupied.
-NOT built roads.
-NOT built airports.

etc. etc. etc.

We should have waited like all the other underdeveloped cities, towns and villages in South and Central Somalia, who till this day, barely have any schools, let alone hospitals.

Without federalism, we would have the gift of AMISOM and AlShabab ruling our towns and villages.



We are really missing out on all the "UNITY" and "PROGRESS".
Because waiting for Mogadishu is what patriotism is really about. ONE city should rule over ALL of us.

 

[MadNomad]

That's right.
Federalism is sooooo evil.



Puntland should have sat around and waited until Mogadishu is no longer held hostage by one clan and its warlords masquerading as politicians.

Puntland should have done NOTHING because doing something has made us "weak and divided":

-NOT built schools, hospitals and a system of rule.
-NOT created a constititution.
-NOT created a unified school curriculum
-NOT bartered with the international community for development funds.
-NOT implemented a tax system in order to pay the men and women who prevent us from being attacked or occupied.
-NOT built roads.
-NOT built airports.

etc. etc. etc.

We should have waited like all the other underdeveloped cities, towns and villages in South and Central Somalia, who till this day, barely have any schools, let alone hospitals.

Without federalism, we would have the gift of AMISOM and AlShabab ruling our towns and villages.



We are really missing out on all the "UNITY" and "PROGRESS".

I understand why federalism was created, but i don't believe it should be around forever. Do you agree?

 

[𐒁𐒚𐒒𐒂𐒘𐒂𐒗 𐒎𐒚𐒗𐒗𐒒]

I understand why federalism was created, but i don't believe it should be around forever. Do you agree?

Why?

My relatives in Puntland have lived a stable, successful life since the civil war because of our autonomous state.
It worked for us;

We don't need to travel thousands of KMs (Mogadishu) to fly to another country.
We don't need to travel thousands of KMs (Mogadishu) to get a Somali passport, instead we go to Garowe.
We don't need to travel thousands of KMs (Mogadishu) for our sick to be cured, we have hospitals in every city and town.
We don't need to travel thousands of KMs to export or import goods (Mogadishu), we use Bosaso or any of the airports.

The list of benefits is endless!!!

Our Somali counterparts in other regions of Somalia, have NOT benefitted since the civil war and neither have their children.

 

[Ras]

There is no such thing as an entire clan voting on ANYTHING. However, every clan has formal and informal representatives.
They proposed this initiative first and then Puntland created a federal state to remain autonomous to escape from the civil war and its warlords.

THAT's how Federalism was brought about.

Out of sheer desperation to escape from anarchy (Puntland) or to save a community who has a separate language and a slightly different identity. (Raxanwayn)

Why are you using the Raxanweyn for your own ambitions.

It's obvious that those formal & informal "representatives" don't really represent anyone.

The way they were picked wasn't transparent and were probably picked by the same people who promoted the 4.5 scheme that didn't do anything but further stall talks on our constitution.

Real supporters of federalism are either shills or idiots who think their clans will end up benefiting somehow.

You'll just end up the ruler of a small corner in occupied Somalia.

 

[𐒁𐒚𐒒𐒂𐒘𐒂𐒗 𐒎𐒚𐒗𐒗𐒒]

Why are you using the Raxanweyn for your own ambitions.

It's obvious that those formal & informal "representatives" don't really represent anyone.

The way they were picked wasn't transparent and were probably picked by the same people who promoted the 4.5 scheme that didn't do anything but further stall talks on our constitution.

Real supporters of federalism are either shills or idiots who think their clans will end up benefiting somehow.

You'll just end up the ruler of a small corner in occupied Somalia.

1) Raxanweyn introduced federalism. Fact.
2) Instead of presenting your thoughts in a rational, intelligent and civilised manner, you are being rude.

Goodbye.

 

[MadNomad]

Why?

My relatives in Puntland have lived a stable, successful life since the civil war because of our autonomous state.
It worked for us;

We don't need to travel thousands of KMs (Mogadishu) to fly to another country.
We don't need to travel thousands of KMs (Mogadishu) to get a Somali passport, instead we go to Garowe.
We don't need to travel thousands of KMs (Mogadishu) for our sick to be cured, we have hospitals in every city and town.
We don't need to travel thousands of KMs to export or import goods (Mogadishu), we use Bosaso or any of the airports.

The list of benefits is endless!!!

Our Somali counterparts in other regions of Somalia, have NOT benefitted since the civil war and neither have their children.

Puntland is not as developed as you're making it sound.

Either way, shouldn't the ultimate goal be to unify when the situation becomes better in all parts of Somalia? Otherwise Puntland might as well ceased and become their own country, what's the point of sticking around?

 

[Ras]

Puntland should have sat around and waited until Mogadishu is no longer held hostage by one clan and its warlords masquerading as politicians.

It made sense to self rule while the South was in chaos but why insist on continuing it?

You'll have the same ability to build infrastructure and security while under a central system but your clan elders and others won't have the ability to sell out Somalia.

 

[Hassan Garguute Buldanana]

@PuntiteQueen said everything i wanted to mention

 

[Ras]

1) Raxanweyn introduced federalism. Fact.
2) Instead of presenting your thoughts in a rational, intelligent and civilised manner, you are being rude.

Goodbye.

lol bye

What's the point of repeating that Raxanweyn were the first to introduce it... it was already shot down by me.

If you can't handle a debate then why include yourself in the conversation?

 

[𐒁𐒚𐒒𐒂𐒘𐒂𐒗 𐒎𐒚𐒗𐒗𐒒]

Puntland is not as developed as you're making it sound.

Either way, shouldn't the ultimate goal be to unify when the situation becomes better in all parts of Somalia? Otherwise Puntland might as well ceased and become their own country, what's the point of sticking around?

Puntland is develoPING:

1) Infrastructure: Roads, airports and a main port.
2) Education:Schools, colleges and universities- (a unified curriculum).
3) Renewable energy sources (solar and wind)
3) Small and large business that pay taxes
4) Security forces, land, air and sea.
5) Healthcare- private and public hospitals and medical teams that are mobile to help nomads.


Fact.

 

[MadNomad]

Puntland has

1) Infrastructure: Roads, airports and a main port.
2) Education:Schools, colleges and universities- (a unified curriculum).
3) Renewable energy sources (solar and wind)
3) Small and large business that pay taxes
4) Security forces, land, air and sea.
5) Healthcare- private and public hospitals and medical teams that are mobile to help nomads.


Fact.

That's nice. But you ignored my question.

 

[𐒁𐒚𐒒𐒂𐒘𐒂𐒗 𐒎𐒚𐒗𐒗𐒒]

That's nice. But you ignored my question.

Was responding right now;

1) Puntland has not only developed its own regions, it has also developed the rest of Somalia politically and socially.
2) Puntland regularly mentors other regions in terms of governance.
3) Puntland has single-handedly forced the federal government to create roadmaps to allow for the existence of the government in Mogadishu.

We are NOT just a federal state, we gave BIRTH to the new Somali Federal State.

 

[𐒁𐒚𐒒𐒂𐒘𐒂𐒗 𐒎𐒚𐒗𐒗𐒒]

lol bye

What's the point of repeating that Raxanweyn were the first to introduce it... it was already shot down by me.

If you can't handle a debate then why include yourself in the conversation?

"Shot down"- what is that supposed to mean? It is a known fact that the D&M community wanted an autonomous state before it was even a thought among Puntland elite.

I can handle a debate but it's clear you don't know what that means.

 

[black]

Federalism was concocted by our rivals. A united Somalia isn't what our neighbours and some others would want to see; either for economic or geo strategic reasons.

It won't go away anytime soon unless the President or someone else forcefully takes out these traitors and consolidates power across the country with minimal harm to normal citizens (i.e. no Saddam Hussein type dictator).

If we allow these state "Presidents" to import heavy weapons then that would make it harder to do so.

IMO Al Shabaab is just a distraction and a symptom of no one having full control over the country.

Even if Farmaajo had a decent army... Al Shabaab could easily hide in Puntland or Somaliland and bribe corrupt officials there to keep their eyes closed.

No we would not be using arms against each other. The SFG will be the only one with the means and rights to acquire anything that isn't already illegally available to Somaliland and Puntland. Federalism is not the antithesis of unity at all. Federalism is the best thing that came out of Somalia since its collapse. There's absolutely no way we would've been where we are today with an absent unitary government. By the time the SFG came, the other states were already rooted so it makes no sense for them to centralize power KNOWING it will be bad for them. It makes absolutely no sense.

Furthermore, no one is interested in hosting Al kabab, they're a cancer to society and hinder progress wherever they are. If the SFG had a real army, it's only in the others states' best interest to co-operating and continue the status quo.

 

[MadNomad]

Was responding right now;

1) Puntland has not only developed its own regions, it has also developed the rest of Somalia politically and socially.
2) Puntland regularly mentors other regions in terms of governance.
3) Puntland has single-handedly forced the federal government to create roadmaps to allow for the existence of the government in Mogadishu.

We are NOT just a federal state, we gave BIRTH to the new Somali Federal State.

Ok, but why doesn't puntland just ceased? I thought the goal was to develop separately and then come to together in the future as a nation. What's the point of keeping federalism alive should the situation in the south improve in the future?

Secondly, national defense. Why split manpower up instead of creating a unified Somali army? Don't you believe that states all having their own army militias could lead to further conflict?

And how would the national economy flourish under federalism? Each state would hog all the resources for themselves, and maybe even fight over them.

I say Somalia shouldn't exist if everyone insists on operating as separate entities forever with no plan of ever unifying.

 

[𐒁𐒚𐒒𐒂𐒘𐒂𐒗 𐒎𐒚𐒗𐒗𐒒]

Ok, but why doesn't puntland just ceased? I thought the goal was to develop separately and them come to together in the future as a nation. What's the point of keeping federalism alive should the situation in the south improve in the future?

Secondly, national defense. Why split manpower up instead of creating a unified Somali army? Don't you believe that states all having their own army militias could lead to further conflict?

And how would the economy flourish under federalism? Each state would hog all the resources for themselves.

I say Somalia shouldn't exist if everyone insists on operating as separate entities forever with no plan of ever unifying.

Somalia is creating a federal army as we speak. So that's a non-issue.

1) Puntland WANTS a unified FEDERAL Army (Federal countries have Federal armies, that's a given).
2) Every region/state will answer to its people and this will help accountability and transparency instead of hogging all the power in ONE city.


A Federal country does not mean several indepedent states who ONLY share a flag and a national anthem.

The economy, foreign affairs, security etc, will all be dealt with by the federal government in partnership with federal states.

 

[MadNomad]

Somalia is creating a federal army as we speak. So that's a non-issue.

1) Puntland WANTS a unified FEDERAL Army (Federal countries have Federal armies, that's a given).
2) Every region/state will answer to its people and this will help accountability and transparency instead of hogging all the power in ONE city.


A Federal country does not mean several indepedent states who ONLY share a flag and a national anthem.

The economy, foreign affairs, security etc, will all be dealt with by the federal government in partnership with federal states.

Alright, we shall see how this federalism experiment works out in the future. At the end of the day i just want Somalis to flourish as a people, the methods used to get there don't matter as much.

 

[𐒁𐒚𐒒𐒂𐒘𐒂𐒗 𐒎𐒚𐒗𐒗𐒒]

Alright, we shall see how this federalism experiment works out in the future. At the end of the day i just want Somalis to flourish as a people, the methods used to get there don't matter as much.

Exactly.
Federalism is just a method of rule and one that suits the nature of the Somali people and our massive landmass.
The important thing is that Somalis cooperate as one unit when it comes to crucial matters.