Puntland gets revenge against Alshabaab

[black]

Alright, we shall see how this federalism experiment works out in the future. At the end of the day i just want Somalis to flourish as a people, the methods used to get there don't matter as much.

I agree with you that a unitary/centralized government is superior when all the interests of the population is aligned and the government is effective at governing its people. This is not the case with Somalia for understandable reasons. Federalism inherently allocates responsibility at a lower level and this is good. If for instance a drought occurs in PL or SL, I don't think the SFG will have as much interest in tackling it as the PL or SL government would.

For now though, we all know that with centralized power, we'll follow suit like the other African countries and even the Barre regime. Development will be concentrated in Mogadishu and spread out at an astronomically slow rate to other regions. Although this is a good or a bad thing depending on who you ask, I definitely see it as a bad thing. In the future, if Somalia does fully develop I would like to see the regional states devolve into smaller/very local government with less power and administrative rule. Essentially cut them out of the process. Much like councils. But that's quite a while from now. For now, federalization is the most rational approach

 

[MadNomad]

I agree with you that a unitary/centralized government is superior when all the interests of the population is aligned and the government is effective at governing its people. This is not the case with Somalia for understandable reasons. Federalism inherently allocates responsibility at a lower level and this is good. If for instance a drought occurs in PL or SL, I don't think the SFG will have as much interest in tackling it as the PL or SL government would.

For now though, we all know that with centralized power, we'll follow suit like the other African countries and even the Barre regime. Development will be concentrated in Mogadishu and spread out at an astronomically slow rate to other regions. Although this is a good or a bad thing depending on who you ask, I definitely see it as a bad thing. In the future, if Somalia does fully develop I would like to see the regional states devolve into smaller/very local government with less power and administrative rule. Essentially cut them out of the process. Much like councils. But that's quite a while from now. For now, federalization is the most rational approach

What you're saying does make sense. Looking at other African countries you'll find that the capital city, more often than not, is the only developed area in the country. I wouldn't want Somalia to go down that route either.

As long as the federal government has a monopoly on big matters like the national defense, economy, and so on, i could see federalism working.

 

[XamarCade]

Ok, but why doesn't puntland just ceased? I thought the goal was to develop separately and then come to together in the future as a nation. What's the point of keeping federalism alive should the situation in the south improve in the future?

Secondly, national defense. Why split manpower up instead of creating a unified Somali army? Don't you believe that states all having their own army militias could lead to further conflict?

And how would the national economy flourish under federalism? Each state would hog all the resources for themselves, and maybe even fight over them.

I say Somalia shouldn't exist if everyone insists on operating as separate entities forever with no plan of ever unifying.

Bro their whole motto is what's mines is mines and what's urs is mines, if Puntland could ever be self sufficient, they would've called for ictiraaf long time ago, as much as they hate Mogadishu, they wouldn't survive for a mere 1 week, that's why they're signing of bogus deals and contracts to foreign companies (For fishing) and other b.s contracts, shit got so bad that they even resorted back to pirating

They want to secede sooo bad, but they just cant miskeen walahi

 

[Cotton Eyed Joe]

Why are you using the Raxanweyn for your own ambitions.

It's obvious that those formal & informal "representatives" don't really represent anyone.

The way they were picked wasn't transparent and were probably picked by the same people who promoted the 4.5 scheme that didn't do anything but further stall talks on our constitution.

Real supporters of federalism are either shills or idiots who think their clans will end up benefiting somehow.

You'll just end up the ruler of a small corner in occupied Somalia.

DigilMirifle party HDMS introduced it in 1954 and it was revived in 1991. it wasn't made by foreigners lol.

 

[MadNomad]

Bro their whole motto is what's mines is mines and what's urs is mines, if Puntland could ever be self sufficient, they would've called for ictiraaf long time ago, as much as they hate Mogadishu, they wouldn't survive for a mere 1 week, that's why they're signing of bogus deals and contracts to foreign companies (For fishing) and other b.s contracts, shit got so bad that they even resorted back to pirating

They want to secede sooo bad, but they just cant miskeen walahi

Puntland leaving would be very bad though...they have all the oil

 

[Cotton Eyed Joe]

Bro their whole motto is what's mines is mines and what's urs is mines, if Puntland could ever be self sufficient, they would've called for ictiraaf long time ago, as much as they hate Mogadishu, they wouldn't survive for a mere 1 week, that's why they're signing of bogus deals and contracts to foreign companies (For fishing) and other b.s contracts, shit got so bad that they even resorted back to pirating

They want to secede sooo bad, but they just cant miskeen walahi

it's a larger ambition. A dugaag cant understand a man's urge to rise. Thats why you still killing each other in year 2017 and occupied by countries with AIDS and ebola epidemics.

 

[Cotton Eyed Joe]

Puntland: Saldhig al-Shabaab ku lahaayeen Buuraha Calmadow oo la burburiyey • Horseed

PSF (Puntland Security Forces) Bombarded these bastards with mortars in the Galgala Mountains destroying their Camps/Military bases.
They killed and wounded many, but official numbers aren't out yet.

Guul

 

[XamarCade]

Puntland leaving would be very bad though...they have all the oil

They don't have the majority of the oil, they have good onshore oil but the majority is in the central and Souths offshore.

 

[XamarCade]

it's a larger ambition. A dugaag cant understand a man's urge to rise. Thats why you still killing each other in year 2017 and occupied by countries with AIDS and ebola epidemics.

Stop getting mad naya,

 

[Cotton Eyed Joe]

Stop getting mad naya,

you typed out an essay to diss PL and im the one who is mad?

 

[black]

Bro their whole motto is what's mines is mines and what's urs is mines, if Puntland could ever be self sufficient, they would've called for ictiraaf long time ago, as much as they hate Mogadishu, they wouldn't survive for a mere 1 week, that's why they're signing of bogus deals and contracts to foreign companies (For fishing) and other b.s contracts, shit got so bad that they even resorted back to pirating

They want to secede sooo bad, but they just cant miskeen walahi

As the capital and power hub of Somalia, why don't other Somalis have a right to it?

 

[XamarCade]

you typed out an essay to diss PL and im the one who is mad?

It triggered u cause u know it's the truth

 

[XamarCade]

As the capital and power hub of Somalia, why don't other Somalis have a right to it?

Every Somali should have a right anywhere they want to live and prosper in Somalia, but with some of these ppl they want to keep their share for themselves and have a bite out of ur share

 

[Cotton Eyed Joe]

It triggered u cause u know it's the truth

it's not even remotely true. self-sufficency doesn't mean national sovereignty, it's such a ridiculous remark it can only have come from your type of people, the missing link. There is no oil offshore in south somalia thats been proven, they have been marked off for exploration

 

[XamarCade]

it's not even remotely true. self-sufficency doesn't mean national sovereignty, it's such a ridiculous remark it can only have come from your type of people, the missing link. There is no oil offshore in south somalia thats been proven, they have been marked off for exploration

 

[Cotton Eyed Joe]

qosol gariir im done

 

[Abdalla]

Three types of nations have opted for federalism
-Countries with a large landscape like Canada
-Countries with multiple ethnicities like Ethiopia
-Countries whose citizens mistrust powerful, centralised like US and Germany

I think it's fair to say that Somalia fits the first and third criteria. The reason why federalism isn't working in Somali politics is because there isn't a clear manual that stipulates the role of the federal states and the role of the SFG. As long as there isn't a clear framework, the federal states shall act as the sole custodian of their affairs.

This is the famous article 3 of the Puntland constitution.

1. Puntland State is part of Somalia; it is her duty to contribute to the establishment and protect a Somali Government based on the Federal System.
2. The powers that Puntland State shall cede to the Federal Government of Somalia and the rights that will be preserved shall be determined through negotiation.
3. Pending the completion of the Federal Constitution approved by a popular referendum, Puntland State shall have the status of an independent State.
http://www.worldstatesmen.org/Puntland-const2010.pdf

Seems like a reasonable stance.

 

[MadNomad]

Three types of nations have opted for federalism
-Countries with a large landscape like Canada
-Countries with multiple ethnicities like Ethiopia
-Countries whose citizens mistrust powerful, centralised like US and Germany

I think it's fair to say that Somalia fits the first and third criteria. The reason why federalism isn't working in Somali politics is because there isn't a clear manual that stipulates the role of the federal states and the role of the SFG. As long as there isn't a clear framework, the federal states shall act as the sole custodian of their affairs.

This is the famous article 3 of the Puntland constitution.

1. Puntland State is part of Somalia; it is her duty to contribute to the establishment and protect a Somali Government based on the Federal System.
2. The powers that Puntland State shall cede to the Federal Government of Somalia and the rights that will be preserved shall be determined through negotiation.
3. Pending the completion of the Federal Constitution approved by a popular referendum, Puntland State shall have the status of an independent State.
http://www.worldstatesmen.org/Puntland-const2010.pdf

Seems like a reasonable stance.

This all sounds good on paper. But i don't trust Somali politicians, let's hope it's executed well.

 

[Ras]

What you're saying does make sense. Looking at other African countries you'll find that the capital city, more often than not, is the only developed area in the country. I wouldn't want Somalia to go down that route either.

As long as the federal government has a monopoly on big matters like the national defense, economy, and so on, i could see federalism working.

Would be great if that was the case but in our current situation it would just end up leaving open loopholes for our enemies to influence Somalia through these autonomous states.

Unlike other federal systems; the current Somali states won't agree on the final constitutions until they've been given rights as a sovereign nation that only shares a flag with Xamar.

Also you can't use the example of Siad Barre's policy in only investing in Mogadishu as a way of demonstrating that centralism will just end leaving the rest of the country dry. Siad Barre and his cronies were acting like any other incompetent African leaders and that's why you can't use them as an example either.

Somalia has a population of less than 15 million with thousands of km's of undeveloped land. You can either develop each states equally and have it take decades before we can start to industrialize or focus our meager capital on a single centralized industrial region.

That's the only way we could play catch up to the rest of the world.

Once we have a small region with all the infrastructure we need for industries; it won't take long before we can invest in the other regions.

 

[MadNomad]

Would be great if that was the case but in our current situation it would just end up leaving open loopholes for our enemies to influence Somalia through these autonomous states.

Unlike other federal systems; the current Somali states won't agree on the final constitutions until they've been given rights as a sovereign nation that only shares a flag with Xamar.

Also you can't use the example of Siad Barre's policy in only investing in Mogadishu as a way of demonstrating that centralism will just end leaving the rest of the country dry. Siad Barre and his cronies were acting like any other incompetent African leaders and that's why you can't use them as an example either.

Somalia has a population of less than 15 million with thousands of km's of undeveloped land. You can either develop each states equally and have it take decades before we can start to industrialize or focus our meager capital on a single centralized industrial region.

That's the only way we could play catch up to the rest of the world.

Once we have a small region with all the infrastructure we need for industries; it won't take long before we can invest in the other regions.

That's the issue. I said federalism would only work if the states give up some power to the federal government. But if they want full sovereignty it will not work.