somali atheist from europe and north america have to be banned from our homeland

[VixR]

Yeah I'm a Muslim, that's why i'm critquing Wahhabism and not Islam. I do agree with u that for some of these Abu so and so, khamiis wearing akhis it's more of an ideological, more accurately brainwashing, thing than it is outright self-hatred. But the results r the same, since they become averse to Somalinimo and it's representations.

It's not necessarily wahabism though, it's just part of the deen. Again, I'm confused at your calling it brainwashing. These are devout Muslims, not ISIL

Are you non-practicing

 

[jugjugwacwac]

It's all because of your thread from yesterday

I should've known lol.

 

[$$$$]

I should've known lol.

I have a feeling that you already knew. :siilaanyolaugh: Your enjoying this

 

[jugjugwacwac]

It's not necessarily wahabism though, it's just part of the deen. Again, I'm confused at your calling it brainwashing. These are devout Muslims, not ISIL

Are you non-practicing

I don't care if they are devout Muslims, I have an issue with their type of Islam. Do u believe there is only one type of Islam? I follow the traditional Somali Islam of my forefathers that is compatible with the Somali way of life, not the imported interpretations of Saudi state clerics.

 

[VixR]

I don't care if they are devout Muslims, I have an issue with their type of Islam. Do u believe there is only one type of Islam? I follow the traditional Somali Islam of my forefathers that is compatible with the Somali way of life.

What you're challenging isn't exclusive to sect, but a characteristic of the religion, the doctrine is at odds with the agenda. I think only a person not in touch with Islam would say the things you say.

Traditional Somali Islam?

Would that be another sect kkk.

 

[Khathead]

this is unacceptable and alarming how many atheist there is in the somali community. whether it is s/land or puntland or konfuur, when it comes to our diin those lands are united and we must be unified to ban them from entering from spreading their toxins to the locals and impressionable children. enough is enough. does no one care about our diin and way of life??

we will accept muslim white people and muslim amhara our enemies into our land but never ever atheist somalis stay where you are

only if you leave the west and their welfare $$$

 

[jugjugwacwac]

What you're challenging isn't exclusive to sect, but a characteristic of the religion, the doctrine is at odds with the agenda. I think only a person not in touch with Islam would say the things you say.

Traditional Somali Islam?

Would that be another sect kkk.

What is it I'm challenging and how is it an inherent characteristic of Islam? I wanna make sure we're on the same page here.

 

[VixR]

What is it I'm challenging and how is it an inherent characteristic of Islam? I wanna make sure we're on the same page here.

Staunch nationalism is haram. Islam even accounts for the political component of the concept of nationhood. Your allegiance is to Islam and the Ummah, the followers of the deen, and a caliphate if there is one. You oppose Arab affinity, but as I explained that's explicit within the deen too.

I'm not saying you can't be a nationalist, but to disdain the typical OP variant of Islam for following the religion in the face of your abrogated interpretation is irrational.

And don't get me wrong, I'm all for abrogation

 

[jugjugwacwac]

Staunch nationalism is haram. Islam even accounts for the political component of the concept of nationhood. Your allegiance is to Islam and the Ummah, the followers of the deen, and a caliphate if there is one. You oppose Arab affinity, but as I explained that's explicit within the deen too.

I'm not saying you can't be a nationalist, but to disdain the typical OP variant of Islam for following the religion in the face of your abrogated interpretation is irrational.

All of this is up to interpretation. The only things which aren't are the 5 pillars of Islam and the 6 pillars of emaan. Everything else is free game and so in my Islam nationalism and putting my people first is not haram as long as I do not infringe on the rights of other Muslims.

 

[agnes]

@VixR is right nationalism is haram in Islam but so is trabialism and majority of the Somalis are tribalist.

 

[jugjugwacwac]

@VixR is right nationalism is haram in Islam.

lol That's according to certain interpretations. There's nothing wrong with putting ur country and people first as long as u don't infringe on the rights of other fellow Muslims and as long as u help them when they need u (of course this help should be mutual).

 

[agnes]

lol That's according to certain interpretations. There's nothing wrong with putting ur country and people first as long as u don't infringe on the rights of other fellow Muslims and as long as u help them when they need u (of course this help should be mutual).

That's according to all Sunni interpretations. The Quraan and hadith speak very clearly about this.

 

[jugjugwacwac]

That's according to all Sunni interpretations. The Quraan and hadith speak very clearly about this.

So is that why those same Sunni interpretations, including the four schools of thought, say that a non-Arab man is not suitable in marriage to an Arab women? What happened to the one 'ummah'? lol

 

[VixR]

@VixR is right nationalism is haram in Islam but so is trabialism and majority of the Somalis are tribalist.

I've even seen religious Somalis use Islam as a means to fight Somali tribalism, calling it haram.

 

[government]

So is that why those same Sunni interpretations, including the four schools of thought, say that a non-Arab man is not suitable in marriage to an Arab women? What happened to the one 'ummah'? lol

No sect says that you should learn more about Islam brother

 

[jugjugwacwac]

No sect says that you should learn more about Islam brother

Are you sure? Here's just one example, among many many others, from the Shaafici school.

We see the following regarding the kafa’a for marriage in the classic Shafi’i manual of Islamic law titled ‘Umdat as-Salik wa ‘Uddat an-Nasik (Reliance of the Traveller and Tools of the Worshipper):

والكفاءةُ في: النسَبِ والدِّينِ والحريةِ والصَّنعةِ وسلامة العيوبِ المُثْبِتَةِ للخِيار، فلا يُكافئ العجميُّ عربيةً، ولا غيرُ قُرَشيٍّ قُرشيَّةً، ولا غيرُ هاشميٍّ أو مُطَّلبيٍّ هاشميةً أو مطَّلبيةً، ولا فاسقٌ عفيفةً، ولا عبدٌ حرةً، ولا العتيقُ أو من مسَّ آباءَهُ رِقٌّ حرةَ الأصلِ، ولا ذو حِرفَةٍ دنيئةٍ بنتَ ذي حِرفةٍ أرفعَ، كخياطٍ بنتَ تاجرٍ، ولا معيبٌ بعيبٍ يُثْبِتُ الخِيارَ سليمةً منهُ، ولا اعتبارَ باليسارِ والشيخوخةِ، فمتى زوَّجها بغَيْرِ كُفءٍ بغَيرِ رضاها ورِضا الأولياءِ الذينَ هم في درَجتهِ فالنِّكاحُ باطلٌ، وإن رَضُوا أو رضيَتْ فليسَ للأبعدِ اعتراضٌ.


(Taken from the section of Kafa’a in the chapter of Nikaah in the text)
Translation: Kafa’a (Suitability in marriage for a female) is in the lineage (ancestry of the man), and in religiousness, and his being a free man (not a slave), and in his profession, and his being free of defects that can cause the annulment of the marriage. And the ajami (non-Arab) is NOT suitable for an Arab woman, and a non-Qurayshi is NOT suitable for a Qurayshi woman (Quraysh was the tribe of the Holy Prophet (S)), nor is a non-Hashimi or non-Muttalabi suitable for a Hashimi or Muttalabi woman (Hashimites are the members of the clan to which the Holy Prophet (S) belonged to, and Muttalabites are the descendants of the grandfather of the Holy Prophet (S)). Nor is an immoral man suitable for a virtuous woman, nor is a slave suitable for a free woman, nor is a freed slave or one whose ancestors were touched by slavery suitable for a (free) woman whose ancestors were free. Nor is a man of a lowly profession suitable for the daughter of someone with a noble profession, such as a tailor wanting to marry a tradesman’s daughter.

 

[SOMALI GENERAL]

Somaliyya Somali ba leh. Somalinimo supersedes everything, religion should be a private matter. It would ridiculous if we banned Somali intellectuals & scientists who just happen to be atheist or agnostic from returning.


Somalia would lose out big time & remain dirt poor. If we're going to become a technological & scientific power we'll need a free thinking society. Insha'allah that is the Somalia i will live to see in my lifetime.

 

[government]

Are you sure? Here's just one example, among many many others, from the Shaafici school.

We see the following regarding the kafa’a for marriage in the classic Shafi’i manual of Islamic law titled ‘Umdat as-Salik wa ‘Uddat an-Nasik (Reliance of the Traveller and Tools of the Worshipper):

والكفاءةُ في: النسَبِ والدِّينِ والحريةِ والصَّنعةِ وسلامة العيوبِ المُثْبِتَةِ للخِيار، فلا يُكافئ العجميُّ عربيةً، ولا غيرُ قُرَشيٍّ قُرشيَّةً، ولا غيرُ هاشميٍّ أو مُطَّلبيٍّ هاشميةً أو مطَّلبيةً، ولا فاسقٌ عفيفةً، ولا عبدٌ حرةً، ولا العتيقُ أو من مسَّ آباءَهُ رِقٌّ حرةَ الأصلِ، ولا ذو حِرفَةٍ دنيئةٍ بنتَ ذي حِرفةٍ أرفعَ، كخياطٍ بنتَ تاجرٍ، ولا معيبٌ بعيبٍ يُثْبِتُ الخِيارَ سليمةً منهُ، ولا اعتبارَ باليسارِ والشيخوخةِ، فمتى زوَّجها بغَيْرِ كُفءٍ بغَيرِ رضاها ورِضا الأولياءِ الذينَ هم في درَجتهِ فالنِّكاحُ باطلٌ، وإن رَضُوا أو رضيَتْ فليسَ للأبعدِ اعتراضٌ.


(Taken from the section of Kafa’a in the chapter of Nikaah in the text)
Translation: Kafa’a (Suitability in marriage for a female) is in the lineage (ancestry of the man), and in religiousness, and his being a free man (not a slave), and in his profession, and his being free of defects that can cause the annulment of the marriage. And the ajami (non-Arab) is NOT suitable for an Arab woman, and a non-Qurayshi is NOT suitable for a Qurayshi woman (Quraysh was the tribe of the Holy Prophet (S)), nor is a non-Hashimi or non-Muttalabi suitable for a Hashimi or Muttalabi woman (Hashimites are the members of the clan to which the Holy Prophet (S) belonged to, and Muttalabites are the descendants of the grandfather of the Holy Prophet (S)). Nor is an immoral man suitable for a virtuous woman, nor is a slave suitable for a free woman, nor is a freed slave or one whose ancestors were touched by slavery suitable for a (free) woman whose ancestors were free. Nor is a man of a lowly profession suitable for the daughter of someone with a noble profession, such as a tailor wanting to marry a tradesman’s daughter.

OK there is no were in the Quran and Sunnah does it say that and all the haduth about it is daceef

قال السرخسي الحنفي في المبسوط المجلد الخامس
باب الأكفاء ( قال : ) اعلم أن الكفاءة في النكاح معتبرة من حيث النسب إلا على قول سفيان الثوري رحمه الله تعالى فإنه كان يقول : لا معتبر في الكفاءة من حيث النسب وقيل : أنه كان من العرب فتواضع ورأى الموالي أكفاء له وأبو حنيفة رحمه الله تعالى كان من الموالي فتواضع ولم ير نفسه كفؤا للعرب , وحجته في ذلك قوله صلى الله عليه وسلم { : الناس سواسية كأسنان المشط لا فضل لعربي على عجمي إنما الفضل بالتقوى } , وهذا الحديث يؤيده قوله تعالى { إن أكرمكم عند الله أتقاكم } , وقال صلى الله عليه وسلم { : كلكم بنو آدم طف للصاع لم يملأ , وقال : الناس كإبل مائة لا تكاد تجد فيها راحلة واحدة } فهذه الآثار تدل على المساواة , وأن التفاضل بالعمل , ومن أبطأ به عمله لم يسرع به نسبه { , وخطب أبو طيبة امرأة من بني بياضة فأبوا أن يزوجوه فقال صلى الله عليه وسلم : زوجوا أبا طيبة إلا تفعلوه تكن فتنة في الأرض وفساد كبير فقالوا : نعم وكرامة . } { وخطب بلال رضي الله عنه إلى قوم من العرب فقال له رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم : قل لهم إن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم يأمركم أن تزوجوني } ,
وأن سلمان خطب بنت عمر رضي الله عنه فهم أن يزوجها منه ثم لم يتفق ذلك ,
وحجتنا في ذلك قوله صلى الله عليه وسلم { قريش بعضهم أكفاء لبعض بطن ببطن , والعرب بعضهم أكفاء لبعض قبيلة بقبيلة والموالي بعضهم أكفاء لبعض رجل برجل }( ضعيف) ,
وفي حديث جابر رضي الله عنه أن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم قال : { ألا لا يزوج النساء إلا الأولياء , ولا يزوجن إلا من الأكفاء }(ضعيف)
I couldn't post the rest but the majority of schools disagree with that

 

[supz]

Are you sure? Here's just one example, among many many others, from the Shaafici school.

We see the following regarding the kafa’a for marriage in the classic Shafi’i manual of Islamic law titled ‘Umdat as-Salik wa ‘Uddat an-Nasik (Reliance of the Traveller and Tools of the Worshipper):

والكفاءةُ في: النسَبِ والدِّينِ والحريةِ والصَّنعةِ وسلامة العيوبِ المُثْبِتَةِ للخِيار، فلا يُكافئ العجميُّ عربيةً، ولا غيرُ قُرَشيٍّ قُرشيَّةً، ولا غيرُ هاشميٍّ أو مُطَّلبيٍّ هاشميةً أو مطَّلبيةً، ولا فاسقٌ عفيفةً، ولا عبدٌ حرةً، ولا العتيقُ أو من مسَّ آباءَهُ رِقٌّ حرةَ الأصلِ، ولا ذو حِرفَةٍ دنيئةٍ بنتَ ذي حِرفةٍ أرفعَ، كخياطٍ بنتَ تاجرٍ، ولا معيبٌ بعيبٍ يُثْبِتُ الخِيارَ سليمةً منهُ، ولا اعتبارَ باليسارِ والشيخوخةِ، فمتى زوَّجها بغَيْرِ كُفءٍ بغَيرِ رضاها ورِضا الأولياءِ الذينَ هم في درَجتهِ فالنِّكاحُ باطلٌ، وإن رَضُوا أو رضيَتْ فليسَ للأبعدِ اعتراضٌ.


(Taken from the section of Kafa’a in the chapter of Nikaah in the text)
Translation: Kafa’a (Suitability in marriage for a female) is in the lineage (ancestry of the man), and in religiousness, and his being a free man (not a slave), and in his profession, and his being free of defects that can cause the annulment of the marriage. And the ajami (non-Arab) is NOT suitable for an Arab woman, and a non-Qurayshi is NOT suitable for a Qurayshi woman (Quraysh was the tribe of the Holy Prophet (S)), nor is a non-Hashimi or non-Muttalabi suitable for a Hashimi or Muttalabi woman (Hashimites are the members of the clan to which the Holy Prophet (S) belonged to, and Muttalabites are the descendants of the grandfather of the Holy Prophet (S)). Nor is an immoral man suitable for a virtuous woman, nor is a slave suitable for a free woman, nor is a freed slave or one whose ancestors were touched by slavery suitable for a (free) woman whose ancestors were free. Nor is a man of a lowly profession suitable for the daughter of someone with a noble profession, such as a tailor wanting to marry a tradesman’s daughter.

just stop man. these people don't care about facts.

 

[government]

just stop man. these people don't care about facts.

I just posted a reply to him and it's not like al shafi is the prophet and whatever he says is right